U.S. Politics: It's Torture

[Larry of the Lawn]

12 hours ago, Tempra said:

 

 

30 minutes ago, sToNED_CAT said:

Of course comparing Trump to Hitler is laughable. You know who would be the best person to compare him to? Theodore Roosevelt. Nationalism? Check. Protectionism, while having low taxes? Check. Demanding that immigrants conform to american values? Check. Ironically Obama once compared himself to Roosevelt too, although for different reasons.

Yeah, the Trust Buster would totally load his cabinet with Exxon execs, enemies of public education, and weaken environmental protections.  

He's probably get kick out of the NPS rnvera giving Domald the big 'fuck you' though.

 

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

13 hours ago, Commodore said:

a 120 day freeze on refugees and a 90 day freeze on entry from jihadi controlled areas to review policies is perfectly reasonable

my only issue with the EO is if it is being applied to green card holders; they've already been vetted and it would seem to be extremely disruptive

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria

 

It is indeed very disruptive. This is just one example, and I am sure there are a lot more like this story:

 

Quote

 

Nazanin Zinouri feeling fed up at DXB - Dubai International Airport.

19 hrs · Dubai, United Arab Emirates · 

 

I normally don't write long posts or any kind of political or religious comments. 
I apologize in advance and I don't expect my friends to read this long long past!!
But today I just couldn't hold it any longer. Friday 1/20/17 started like any other normal day. I was excited about my trip to Tehran. After all I only get to visit them once a year. I was excited and anxious at the same time. I was worried about my little puppy but I couldn't wait to see my mom...
It was an uneventful trip. I made him home on Monday 1/22/17, after around 28 hours, exhausted but so so happy. We were all happy. I was going to eat lots of delicious Persian food and make tons of great memories and go back to my life in the US. But the happiness didn't last that long. On Wednesday, we started hearing rumors about new executive orders that will change immigration rules for some countries including Iran. Soon we started reading drafts like everyone else. I might be banned from going back?!?! No that can't be true. I'm not gonna let that ruin my trip. But then it got serious so fast. Before I knew it, it was actually happening. Even though I didn't want to leave my family, I quickly booked a ticket to get on the next flight back. Only a few hours after the order was signed, I got to the airport, got on a plane and made it to Dubai. After waiting in the line to get my documents checked and after 40 minutes of questions and answers, I boarded the plane to Washington, only to have two TSA officers getting in and ask me to disembark the plane!!! Yes after almost 7 years of living the the United States, I got deported!!! 
No one warned me when I was leaving, no one cared what will happen to my dog or my job or my life there. No one told me what I should do with my car that is still parked at the airport parking. Or what to do with my house and all my belongings. 
They didn't say it with words but with their actions, that my life doesn't matter. Everything I worked for all these years doesn't matter.
I just had to say it...

 

 

 

[LongRider]

1 hour ago, denstorebog said:

Anyone else feel that after the confusion of today, we're quickly moving towards the real-world version of Varys' riddle where the soldier must decide for himself whether to do the bidding of the king, the priest or the rich man?

Very much so.  Where does the real power lie?

[Tijgy]

43 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

That's weird, because I've been hearing this for 15 years now. Sitting in my European apartment, looking out my European window and living my casual European life, it's like I just can't see the devastation of Europe that I've been promised for so long. Crime in Western Europe is low as ever, especially compared to the US. The endless waves of immigrants have failed to materialize. We hear a couple of of horror stories now and then, but statistically we should still be more worried about whales and pale-faced school shooters.

Still, I'd like to hear your story of living in Europe and how you experienced those dark days when Europe fell.

I am not sure how you would describe the situation in Molenbeek nor the fact that in the main Flemish cities more than 50% in the primary schools have parents whose mother language isn't Dutch. 

And I am actually very happy I was in the Netherlands last March 22. I did delay my return to my home town in Flanders for some days because I wasn't really going to risk my live on the Belgian railways. 

It is also very normal that each two weeks we get some information of some raids happening in Brussels searching for explosives and guns (next to the one bomb which they have been searching for since the attacks in Maalbeek and Zaventem and which they still didn't found or maybe I missed during all the other news on all those terrorists with their links to Belgium/Brussels). 

And I am also very happy to see every day several soldiers guarding the railway station I use in Brussels. Most of the time they are very handsome in their uniform. Their presence near the Parliament and their position on the Kunstberg does give Brussels really the appearance of a city under siege though.

And in Belgium terror attacks do happen more than school schooting.

You can discuss what exact measures should be taken but you should not just say the situation is still normal in Europe. It isn't. 

[LongRider]

1 hour ago, butterbumps! said:

I think people are reaching for the Fascism/ Hitler comparisons because I think a lot of us just don't have the language or historical context to articulate something more precise.  And I don't think the comparison hinges on "dislike."   I think for many people, it's more about seeing Trump as a dangerous demagogue who exploits bigotry to scapegoat groups of people, and doesn't appear to care about democratic norms or liberal values, which, they fear, can lead to a truly oppressive state.  The "Hitler" comparisons become a (not so great) shorthand.

This is it.  The realization that he and his cronies are very dangerous, and our country has changed so much, and not in good ways, so fast.

[Toth]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

I agree, because Hitler's moves were pre-meditated, carefully considered - apart from when his opponents fucked up and gave him an opening he could use, like at Munich where he was in literal stupefied disbelief at Chamberlain's piece of paper when France, Britain and Russia could have torn through Germany like it was tissue paper at the time - and he was always in the driving seat.

Trump's moves are not very pre-meditated at all, no serious thought about the consequences of his decision have been made (he seems constantly caught off-guard and rattled when people disagree with his decisions and tell him so loudly: that's not how it works in the board room). He is also extremely easily manipulated. The problem is only partially Trump, but more serious are those circling around him who are using his susceptibility to flattery and what he sees on TV (opposed to the reality) to get their own way.

Comparing the Trump administration to the Nazis is actually slightly insulting to the Nazis. At least they had a plan and an ideology that was in the public domain (they even wrote a manual for it in 1924 and published it which even outlined the "evils" of the Jews and that Germany needs to invade and conquer Russia) and fairly consistent. Trump and his coterie are haphazardly stumbling from one half-baked, cretinous and unworkable notion to the next with no care for the consequences of their actions.

Very eloquently put! Even as someone who has invoked Godwin's law before in order to describe the factors that led to his election, I have to totally agree regarding the thoughtless executive orders of the last few days. He may have risen on an eerily similar sentiment of disappointment in the system and through his advisors he is a very real threat to democracy, but at least he doesn't have any kind of coherent plan. Still doesn't make it any less terrifying... I also have the impression that he's currently just crossing out his campaign promises one after another without any thought about how feasable any of it is. At this rate he will have 'finished' those by the end of next week and lets everyone else deal with the fallout. I wonder whether he then grows bored...

[LongRider]

7 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Well its barely been a week and I think millions of Americans have all the evidence they need, that this Presidency needs to be opposed, protested and thwarted by any means possible.

A quick Google of "Ways to resist Trump" shows many, many, articles have already been written on just that idea. Here's a small sample of whats out there, should anyone be looking for ideas.

 

6 Ways Not to Resist Donald Trump - POLITICO Magazine

Politico › magazine › story › 2017/01

4 days ago - Not a shabby way to begin “The Resistance”—and a sure sign that liberals should be able to ... resistance movement will end up being little more than an annoying mosquito in Donald Trump's ear, one ...

Nine Ways to Oppose Donald Trump - The New Yorker

The New Yorker › news › john-cassidy

Dec 16, 2016 - John Cassidy offers Americans nine ways that they might actively resist the Donald TrumpPresidential Administration and the Republican agenda.

 

Robert Reich: Twelve Ways to Resist the Trump Presidency - Newsweek

Newsweek › robert-reich-twelve-ways-re...

Jan 6, 2017 - Trump's first 100 days agenda includes repealing environmental regulations, Obamacare and the Dodd-Frank Act, giving the rich and big corporations a huge tax cut, and putting in pla

 

thanks for posting this.

[Happy Ent]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

The Jews and Bolsheviks both get that treatment. And the nation that gets some credit I think is Britain.

You’re correct on question B, so one beer for that. Hitler’s love for England oozes off several pages in Mein Kampf. It makes total sense, but it was not something I had been aware of.

No points for Question A, however. Maybe somebody else in class wants to answer: Which  people is the primary target of Hitler’s Mein Kampf primarily pours anger and disgust, a culture so vile, decadent, hateful, murderous, and corrupt that the pages fairly reek? (The Bolsheviks/Slavs and Jews/Bankers only make 2nd and 3rd position. Again, the answer makes total sense but was a complete surprise to me.) 

[Chaircat Meow]

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

No, a lot of Iraqis and Afghans did it because they wanted to help their countries. But when that fucked up and translators started being assassinated, those green cards helped a lot.

Ban almost all Chinese people from travelling to the United States? Sure. Then China can call in its debts and we can watch the impact of that on the United States in short order.

 

I agree, because Hitler's moves were pre-meditated, carefully considered - apart from when his opponents fucked up and gave him an opening he could use, like at Munich where he was in literal stupefied disbelief at Chamberlain's piece of paper when France, Britain and Russia could have torn through Germany like it was tissue paper at the time - and he was always in the driving seat.

Trump's moves are not very pre-meditated at all, no serious thought about the consequences of his decision have been made (he seems constantly caught off-guard and rattled when people disagree with his decisions and tell him so loudly: that's not how it works in the board room). He is also extremely easily manipulated. The problem is only partially Trump, but more serious are those circling around him who are using his susceptibility to flattery and what he sees on TV (opposed to the reality) to get their own way.

Comparing the Trump administration to the Nazis is actually slightly insulting to the Nazis. At least they had a plan and an ideology that was in the public domain (they even wrote a manual for it in 1924 and published it which even outlined the "evils" of the Jews and that Germany needs to invade and conquer Russia) and fairly consistent. Trump and his coterie are haphazardly stumbling from one half-baked, cretinous and unworkable notion to the next with no care for the consequences of their actions.

Hard to believe, tbh.

[Chaircat Meow]

2 minutes ago, Happy Ent said:

You’re correct on question B, so one beer for that. Hitler’s love for England oozes off several pages in Mein Kampf. It makes total sense, but it was not something I had been aware of.

No points for Question A, however. Maybe somebody else in class wants to answer: Which  people is the primary target of Hitler’s Mein Kampf primarily pours anger and disgust, a culture so vile, decadent, hateful, murderous, and corrupt that the pages fairly reek? (The Bolsheviks/Slavs and Jews/Bankers only make 2nd and 3rd position. Again, the answer makes total sense but was a complete surprise to me.) 

Germany?

2nd guess, France.

[LongRider]

4 minutes ago, Happy Ent said:

You’re correct on question B, so one beer for that. Hitler’s love for England oozes off several pages in Mein Kampf. It makes total sense, but it was not something I had been aware of.

No points for Question A, however. Maybe somebody else in class wants to answer: Which  people is the primary target of Hitler’s Mein Kampf primarily pours anger and disgust, a culture so vile, decadent, hateful, murderous, and corrupt that the pages fairly reek? (The Bolsheviks/Slavs and Jews/Bankers only make 2nd and 3rd position. Again, the answer makes total sense but was a complete surprise to me.) 

Catholics.

[sToNED_CAT]

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

 

Yeah, the Trust Buster would totally load his cabinet with Exxon execs, enemies of public education, and weaken environmental protections.  

He's probably get kick out of the NPS rnvera giving Domald the big 'fuck you' though.

 

T.Roosevelt was much more than a trust buster. And ironically his cabinet was full of "execs", probably because he was smart enough to give those positions to qualified and experienced people.

Plus I'm not so sure Trump is that big fan of trust he opposed that merger, I forgot which one, of major companies after the election. "Mainstream republicans" ala Bushites are probably much bigger fans of trusts and laissez faire than Trump.

[Happy Ent]

Just now, Chaircat Meow said:

Germany?

2nd guess, France.

France it is. Hitler’s Mein Kampf struck me as, primarily, a text against France. There is a lot of hate in other directions as well. But the eternal enemy of German is France. Everything else is a sideshow.

This surprised me, though perhaps it shouldn’t have.

For the record, I own Werthead and Meow one beer each, to be operationalised whenever we physically meet. 

[The Marquis de Leech]

3 hours ago, denstorebog said:

Anyone else feel that after the confusion of today, we're quickly moving towards the real-world version of Varys' riddle where the soldier must decide for himself whether to do the bidding of the king, the priest or the rich man?

"In front of him stands a member of the joint chiefs of staff, a federal judge and an orange blowhard ..."

Andrew Jackson is the (depressing) precedent there.

[Aemon Stark]

8 hours ago, Altherion said:

I think you need to study the history some more or perhaps filter the hysteria of the media. Thus far, Trump's actions are not anywhere close to what happened in Germany in the 1930s. The properties he shares with them are shared by a wide variety of societies. The dominant theme of his administration so far is nationalism ("America first!") which has existed in various forms and intensities in all nation states. The other themes (safety over diversity, nativism, etc.) are also common to many different countries throughout time.

Of course, it is possible for him to move towards fascism, but to claim that he is already there or even headed in that direction based on his actions up until now is completely absurd.

As disturbing as the last week has been, I do think the United States Constitution has shown itself to be more robust than the Weimar Republic. Perhaps I'm not imaginative enough, but I cannot foresee any amalgam of the Enabling Act let alone anything like the Reichstag Fire Decree occurring. And, really, if it came down to it, I don't see the military going along with it either. Optimism, that...