Who else could Robert Baratheon have married?

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

Just an idle thought. The Tully girls were both spoken for, and there were no available women from Houses Greyjoy, Stark, Martell, Arryn, and Targaryen. There were possibly two Tyrells - Mina and Janna. But we don't know their ages or if they were already married at the time.

Robert needed to be talked into any marrying anybody, but apart from Cersei, what choice did Jon Arryn have?

If someone else has dealt with this elsewhere, by all means point me in the right direction.

 

[LindsayLohan]

Just putting this out there:  Robert's ancestor, Orys Baratheon, killed the last Storm King, Argilac Durrandon.  Orys then married Argilac's daughter Argella, adopted the words and sigil of her house, and founded House Baratheon of Storm's End. 

A lot of the drama regarding current-day events could have been forestalled if he had married his cousin Danaerys Targaryan (yes, a newborn), waiting until she came of age to consummate the marriage.  That would have required a level head and the execution of a few Lannister knights, though.  At this point Robert is now king of the Seven Kingdoms, and Renly is now Lord of House Baratheon of Storm's End (with Stannis founding House Baratheon of Dragonstone). 

[Ser Tristan Flowers]

In hindsight, anyone would´ve been better than Cersei. He could´ve basically married any high lords daughter, Lynesse Hightower comes to mind, for expample. Maybe even someone from the  westerlands to offset the balance of power there. Tywind would´ve been insulted anyway, so might as well move first, while he still has 4 kingdoms backing him.

Or just anyone, really. Robert would´ve been better off dealing with the Lannisters on the battlefield rather then politically. But honestly, at the time, Cersei seemed like the perfect choice.

Waiting for Daenerys to come off age, though, is not a good idea, I don´t think. A king needs an heir more than anything, just sitting around for 14 years, fighting and whoring, with Stannis next in line, who doesn´t have a son himself, that can´t be good for stability.

[devilish]

6 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

Just putting this out there:  Robert's ancestor, Orys Baratheon, killed the last Storm King, Argilac Durrandon.  Orys then married Argilac's daughter Argella, adopted the words and sigil of her house, and founded House Baratheon of Storm's End. 

A lot of the drama regarding current-day events could have been forestalled if he had married his cousin Danaerys Targaryan (yes, a newborn), waiting until she came of age to consummate the marriage.  That would have required a level head and the execution of a few Lannister knights, though.  At this point Robert is now king of the Seven Kingdoms, and Renly is now Lord of House Baratheon of Storm's End (with Stannis founding House Baratheon of Dragonstone). 

I think that that particular bridge was tactically burnt by Tywin Lannister in a spectacular way. After the sacking of KL, there was no way on earth that the queen would have trusted Robert, unless of course, he puts Tywin's and Jamie's heads on a spike. That's something Robert couldn't possibly do. His troops had been decimated by war, the Tyrells were yet to be brought back to the fold, Jon Arryn was eager to go back to the Vale to go hiki hiki with his new wife and very few people were in the mood to start over by assaulting the richest and most powerful region in Westeros. The last thing Robert wanted was a full blown war against the Reach-Westerlands both still having most of their armies intact. 

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

Cersei was the best and only option by far at the time

[theblackdragonI]

5 hours ago, Ser Tristan Flowers said:

In hindsight, anyone would´ve been better than Cersei. He could´ve basically married any high lords daughter, Lynesse Hightower comes to mind, for expample. Maybe even someone from the  westerlands to offset the balance of power there. Tywind would´ve been insulted anyway, so might as well move first, while he still has 4 kingdoms backing him.

Or just anyone, really. Robert would´ve been better off dealing with the Lannisters on the battlefield rather then politically. But honestly, at the time, Cersei seemed like the perfect choice.

Waiting for Daenerys to come off age, though, is not a good idea, I don´t think. A king needs an heir more than anything, just sitting around for 14 years, fighting and whoring, with Stannis next in line, who doesn´t have a son himself, that can´t be good for stability.

Cersei was the best option available by far. She brought the West and unwavering loyalty of Tywin. Their marriage failed because he couldn't let of the past and became a drunk. Cersei even claims she wanted to give it a go until their wedding night, so it might have been a happy/satisfactory marriage if they both tried harder.

Robert turning down Cersei when the Lannisters have a large, fresh force of trained fighters under Tywin ready to attack would be beyond stupid. The forces of the rebels were severely battered after the Trident while Tywin's remained untouched. He has more gold than any of the rest and could have fought a long, costly war in the mountains of the West. Then there's the fact that the rebels fought a war against the Targs. There's no certainty that they would have been willing or able to fight against the most powerful lord in Westeros who just killed off the Targs, why should they? Because Robert doesn't want to marry the most attractive and powerful daughter in the land? What does the ordinary soldier or lord care about the killing of Elia and the children. It ended the war and not everyone was as affronted by it as Ned and Barristan who are both super honourable but not all that pragmatic. Robert not marrying Cersei and then fighting the Lannisters would have led to so much unnecessary bloodshed and he might not be able/wanted to become king at the end.

[Nocturne]

7 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

Just putting this out there:  Robert's ancestor, Orys Baratheon, killed the last Storm King, Argilac Durrandon.  Orys then married Argilac's daughter Argella, adopted the words and sigil of her house, and founded House Baratheon of Storm's End. 

A lot of the drama regarding current-day events could have been forestalled if he had married his cousin Danaerys Targaryan (yes, a newborn), waiting until she came of age to consummate the marriage.  That would have required a level head and the execution of a few Lannister knights, though.  At this point Robert is now king of the Seven Kingdoms, and Renly is now Lord of House Baratheon of Storm's End (with Stannis founding House Baratheon of Dragonstone). 

Sorry to go a little off topic here but i'm curious about something. When House Baratheon was split in two after the death of Bob, who could legally decide which of these houses is true Baratheon one? ( i assume they both can't co-exist)

 

[Lost Umber]

29 minutes ago, theblackdragonI said:

Cersei was the best option available by far. She brought the West and unwavering loyalty of Tywin. Their marriage failed because he couldn't let of the past and became a drunk. Cersei even claims she wanted to give it a go until their wedding night, so it might have been a happy/satisfactory marriage if they both tried harder.

Robert turning down Cersei when the Lannisters have a large, fresh force of trained fighters under Tywin ready to attack would be beyond stupid. The forces of the rebels were severely battered after the Trident while Tywin's remained untouched. He has more gold than any of the rest and could have fought a long, costly war in the mountains of the West. Then there's the fact that the rebels fought a war against the Targs. There's no certainty that they would have been willing or able to fight against the most powerful lord in Westeros who just killed off the Targs, why should they? Because Robert doesn't want to marry the most attractive and powerful daughter in the land? What does the ordinary soldier or lord care about the killing of Elia and the children. It ended the war and not everyone was as affronted by it as Ned and Barristan who are both super honourable but not all that pragmatic. Robert not marrying Cersei and then fighting the Lannisters would have led to so much unnecessary bloodshed and he might not be able/wanted to become king at the end.

I don't agree... The Lannisters needed the union far more than Robert. They had just sacked KL, murdered Aerys as well as Elia and her children thereby completely alienating themselves from the Targ loyalists and especially Dorne. If they were to then go against the alliance of Baratheon, Stark, Arryn, and Tully, they wouldn't stand a chance. I think they Lannisters desperately needed the union. They had nowhere else to turn for allies... except maybe the Ironborn but I don't think Ironborn ally themselves with anyone. Although it would be entertaining to see Cersei married to Victarion or Euron. 

Robert would have been far better off marrying a Tyrell if a suitable match was available thereby firmly uniting and making peace with a major contingent of combatants from the rebellion. 

[devilish]

A-    Move the capital city to Storm’s end. Grab a big chunk of the Crownlands and add it to your domain. Playing home is always better especially when home mean an impregnable fortress
B-    Start an investigation of what really happened in KL.
C-    Propose a marriage between the king and Arianne Martell. That would bring Dorne back to the fold. Arianne would become queen of Dorne and Westeros with Dorne becoming dragon’s stone version of the new ruling family (ie following Arianne’s death, the crown prince would rule Dorne until his father dies). That will be interpreted as Robert’s attempt to build bridges with the loyalist family and to bring justice to the Martell’s cause
D-    Propose a marriage between Stannis Baratheon and Mina Tyrell. Having his sister married off to the second most powerful man in Westeros is a big honour especially since the Tyrells had fought against them. Stannis will have his own house and will become LP of the former crownlands
E-    Arrest Jamie Lannister. He’ll stand a trial for his crime. Behind the scenes seal a deal with Tywin. He’ll agree to marry off Cersei to Renly (who’ll become Lord of Dragonstone once he’s old enough) and to provide Gregor Clegane in exchange of his son facing Trant in a trial by combat. Jamie would surely win that trial and his reputation would be restored. Meanwhile all war crimes will be pinned to Gregor who would end up losing his head.

[theblackdragonI]

2 hours ago, Lost Umber said:

I don't agree... The Lannisters needed the union far more than Robert. They had just sacked KL, murdered Aerys as well as Elia and her children thereby completely alienating themselves from the Targ loyalists and especially Dorne. If they were to then go against the alliance of Baratheon, Stark, Arryn, and Tully, they wouldn't stand a chance. I think they Lannisters desperately needed the union. They had nowhere else to turn for allies... except maybe the Ironborn but I don't think Ironborn ally themselves with anyone. Although it would be entertaining to see Cersei married to Victarion or Euron. 

Robert would have been far better off marrying a Tyrell if a suitable match was available thereby firmly uniting and making peace with a major contingent of combatants from the rebellion. 

I see where you're coming from but I'm not sure the battered rebel forces would win against the Lannisters. They probably would but morale would be pretty low and I'm sure Tywin would drag out the war. The cost might be too high. 

A Tyrell alliance would be good, but I think at this point the Lannisters under Tywin was a much more valuable alliance. His actions proved complete loyalty to the Baratheon dynasty, he could (and did) provide many loans to Robert if needed, and Robert's second son would most likely inherit the Rock (if Jaime isn't released from his vows, Tyrion's still hated and Tywin won't name Kevan the heir). Plus as much as Robert didn't want to marry anyone but Lyanna, I can't see him even considering a Tyrell match after Mace and his lords besieged Robert's ancestral seat, feasted in front of his starving brothers and only bent the knee after the Targs were dead. We never see an interaction between Robert and Mace I don't think, but I imagine he hates him much more than he does Tywin.

[zandru]

I think devilish has the best plan so far. It might have been pulled off, had not Robert been basically a violent, drunken sexhound with no interest in anything but killing, fcking, and drinking. Also eating  (8 stone's worth!!). And no inclination to govern, or even rule. He didn't seem to be much of s strategic planner, just tactical. Having a level-headed, politically-astute, deeply moral Stark at his side (tragically, they'd all been killed earlier) could have made a big difference to the 7kingdoms.

On the other hand, why wasn't Margaery Tyrell (returning to the Tyrell sisters) mentioned in Illyrio Mo'Parties' original query (great name, btw)? Wasn't Renly "plotting" to marry Robert off to her, at the time of Game of Thrones?

[Universal Sword Donor]

50 minutes ago, zandru said:

I think devilish has the best plan so far. It might have been pulled off, had not Robert been basically a violent, drunken sexhound with no interest in anything but killing, fcking, and drinking. Also eating  (8 stone's worth!!). And no inclination to govern, or even rule. He didn't seem to be much of s strategic planner, just tactical. Having a level-headed, politically-astute, deeply moral Stark at his side (tragically, they'd all been killed earlier) could have made a big difference to the 7kingdoms.

On the other hand, why wasn't Margaery Tyrell (returning to the Tyrell sisters) mentioned in Illyrio Mo'Parties' original query (great name, btw)? Wasn't Renly "plotting" to marry Robert off to her, at the time of Game of Thrones?

There's nothing around SE to support a capital and it's an awful commercial center because of the lack of safe harbor and mooring in the area. He can pretty divvy up the crownlands as he pleases but what does he do with the rest. The Stormlands are by default the crownlands now. What do you do with the actual crownlands?

3 hours ago, theblackdragonI said:

I see where you're coming from but I'm not sure the battered rebel forces would win against the Lannisters. They probably would but morale would be pretty low and I'm sure Tywin would drag out the war. The cost might be too high. 

A Tyrell alliance would be good, but I think at this point the Lannisters under Tywin was a much more valuable alliance. His actions proved complete loyalty to the Baratheon dynasty, he could (and did) provide many loans to Robert if needed, and Robert's second son would most likely inherit the Rock (if Jaime isn't released from his vows, Tyrion's still hated and Tywin won't name Kevan the heir). Plus as much as Robert didn't want to marry anyone but Lyanna, I can't see him even considering a Tyrell match after Mace and his lords besieged Robert's ancestral seat, feasted in front of his starving brothers and only bent the knee after the Targs were dead. We never see an interaction between Robert and Mace I don't think, but I imagine he hates him much more than he does Tywin.

His actions proved complete loyalty to the Baratheons, but that just means that he has nowhere else to go. Ergo Robert doesn't need to do shit to ensure his loyalty. He could have easily married Stannis to Cersei to maintain their loyalty. At the time, Cersei was the best option but that marriage wasn't needed to guarantee Tywin's loyalty. Just ask Tywin:

“We had come late to Robert’s cause. It was necessary to demonstrate our loyalty. When I laid those bodies before the throne, no man could doubt that we had forsaken House Targaryen forever. ”

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Cersei was the only candidate, Tywin was the only one who could be a danger to the new dynasty and his daughter had to be his consort.

[Lost Umber]

20 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Cersei was the only candidate, Tywin was the only one who could be a danger to the new dynasty and his daughter had to be his consort.

BAM!!! Proven. 

Glad that's settled. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

27 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Cersei was the only candidate, Tywin was the only one who could be a danger to the new dynasty and his daughter had to be his consort.

How would he have been a danger to the new dynasty. The one he professed complete loyalty to by butchering the rest of the royal family, in his own words.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

8 minutes ago, Lost Umber said:

BAM!!! Proven. 

Glad that's settled. 

Sarcasm?

Just now, Universal Sword Donor said:

How would he have been a danger to the new dynasty. The one he professed complete loyalty to by butchering the rest of the royal family, in his own words.

That is exactly why. Aerys hadn't given him the Throne and he killed him, he has no morality and that is why he was the most dangerous of the Westerosi high lords and he had to be on Robert’s side.  

[Universal Sword Donor]

6 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Sarcasm?

That is exactly why. Aerys hadn't given him the Throne and he killed him, he has no morality and that is why he was the most dangerous of the Westerosi high lords and he had to be on Robert’s side.  

Dafuq? Tywin never wanted the throne and he didn't kill Aerys. Tywin did want Cersei to marry Rhaegar, but a Lannister on the throne is not something Tywin was liable to see in his lifetime. Jaime killed Aerys, but not because he was a Lannister or for Tywin's sake.

He's absolutely not a danger to Robert because he wiped out the Targ royalty in KL. He has nowhere else to go, no one to ally with, and completely at the mercy of the new king.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

4 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Tywin never wanted the throne and he didn't kill Aerys.

I did exaggerated but what I meant is that he did wanted his blood on the Throne.

4 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

He's absolutely not a danger to Robert because he wiped out the Targ royalty in KL. He has nowhere else to go, no one to ally with, and completely at the mercy of the new king.

If he did that to Aerys what would stoped him from doing that again? He could had allied himself with the Iron Borns, Tyrells and even buy non Westerosi supporters.

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Rhaenys, if they hadn't killed her.  She would have been an excellent choice, might have kept Viserys and the Martells at bay, and given Robert 10+ years to recover from Lyanna's loss and maybe settle down a bit before committing to marriage. In the mean time any of his bastard children could have been legitimized, or Stannis named as his heir, pending the birth of a legitimate son. Rhaenys also doesn't look like a Targaryen, which would be a plus. Eventually Robert might have even gotten over the fact that she was Rhaegar's daughter. 

Then there's Arianne Martell, but Doran would never have agreed.

Dany's not an option. At the time of the sack no one knew Rhaella was pregnant, including herself. Then there was no knowing whether the baby would be a boy or girl, whether she would carry to term, whether the child would be born alive, or whether the child would survive infancy. If all that weren't enough, Robert sent his brother to capture Rhaella and Viserys. After the way he acted when presented with Elia, Rhaenys and MaybeAegon's bodies, there's fair room for doubt that he would have let Rhaella or her baby live. 

Realistically, if Cersei hadn't been an option there would have been some other noble girls considered. Cersei was the best power-match, but not the only possibility in the realm. And they could always have looked for a bride from one of the Free Cities in hopes that someone more exotic/less Westerosi would distract Robert from his grief over Lyanna's death.

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

57 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I did exaggerated but what I meant is that he did wanted his blood on the Throne.

If he did that to Aerys what would stoped him from doing that again? He could had allied himself with the Iron Borns, Tyrells and even buy non Westerosi supporters.

 

He could have, if he was an idiot. Tywin Lannister had many faults, but stupidity was not one of them.

As you said earlier, he wanted his blood on the throne, but he wanted it there in a way no one could question. Taking it by force raises issues of legitimacy of claim. Marrying in is the smart play. Tywin always makes the smart play. Not the decent one, but the smart one.