Content from book 6 already portrayed on show?

[tblackjacks]

I'm sure this is something that's been discussed a lot on here, but for people who haven't answered this question: how much of the new (not in the books yet) content in seasons 5 and 6 do you think is George R. R. Martin's ideas that will come up in the future books? The two that have been confirmed are Shireen's and Hodor's deaths, not sure if there have been more. But, for instance, I think in the Battle of Winterfell (between Jon and Ramsay) the idea of having Rickon run while Ramsay shot the arrows is George's idea, but I highly doubt Ramsay will be eaten by dogs. How about some other major plot points?

[Curled Finger]

I don't think we can talk about this here.  I guess we'll see.  Slight correction as I recently quoted the interview you mentioned.  The burning of Shireen and the meaning of Hodor's name, not his death.  There is supposed to be 1 more thing that I don't think has happened yet.  

I think the show is very much going it's own way.  I can't imagine GRRM allowing brothers and sisters to meet up and win their home back.   It's way too happy and he is a sadist.  

[kissdbyfire]

I think this thread belongs n the show forum, since any discussion of the show is a no-no here. Check out the pinned thread called "show spoilers" or something like that.

[Nocturne]

3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I don't think we can talk about this here.  I guess we'll see.  Slight correction as I recently quoted the interview you mentioned.  The burning of Shireen and the meaning of Hodor's name, not his death.  There is supposed to be 1 more thing that I don't think has happened yet.  

I think the show is very much going it's own way.  I can't imagine GRRM allowing brothers and sisters to meet up and win their home back.   It's way too happy and he is a sadist.  

I don't think GRRM is a sadist per se, he very much just inspire himself from medieval history. Having the brothers re-unite and take their home is something that happened in history, not only bad things happened.

Anyway this should probably be moved to the show forum and edit the title to contain book spoilers...although at this point i think pretty much everyone has been spoiled by twats on the internet:)

One thing that he will probably do that the show did, is have the Children go extinct. The last battle in these series i imagine will have some connotations that all magic will die once and for all, and progress will take its place.

 

[Clegane'sPup]

12 hours ago, tblackjacks said:

I'm sure this is something that's been discussed a lot on here, but for people who haven't answered this question: how much of the new (not in the books yet) content in seasons 5 and 6 do you think is George R. R. Martin's ideas that will come up in the future books? The two that have been confirmed are Shireen's and Hodor's deaths, not sure if there have been more. But, for instance, I think in the Battle of Winterfell (between Jon and Ramsay) the idea of having Rickon run while Ramsay shot the arrows is George's idea, but I highly doubt Ramsay will be eaten by dogs. How about some other major plot points?

Like the pink/bastard letter Jon received in DwD season 5, 6 and upcoming season 7 leaks & discussions contain some truth. What bits of truth the show contains won’t be understood until WoW and DoS is released.

Strangely I like HBO’s GoT, but I stopped watching Outlander and The Magicians (I read the books).

For me, trying to predict where Martin’s ASOIAF is going by using the show does not work.

Take a look at how the Jon Snow attack was handled. Thorne was there. Jon was stabbed 10-12 times, with a little boy thrusting the final blow. Davos is at the Wall. I’m not really sure Mel was the one who resurrected him.

Compare that to the book. Thorne is supposed be out ranging. Satin is Jon’s steward. Davos has been sent off by Manderly to find Rickon and Jon was slashed once, stabbed twice and never felt the 4^th blow.

Rickon and  Osha are killed on the show. In the book they are missing. Davos is on a mission to find them.

In the show Sansa has been married to Ramsey vs Sansa is actually in the Vale getting ready to whatever Martin has planned during the upcoming tourney. In the book a false Arya was married to Ramsey.

In my opinion nothing in the TV show can be used to predict what is going to happen in the books. I really do believe that interns were/are used to search out fan based theories.

My only complaint is that the forces that be decided to do two shortened seasons instead of one big bang season finale..

[Nevets]

There are certain things that I think are far more likely because they happened on the show

Jon's resurrection:  Jon will return quickly.  He is either not actually dead, or he is resurrected quite quickly.  It seems unlikely that he will be gone for most of the book.

Arya:  Arya splits from the FM and returns to Westeros with minimal consequences.  No Frey pies, though.

Jojen dies and Bran leaves the cave.  Hodor is also a goner.

Daenerys gains control of the Dothraki and heads to Westeros.

Brienne joining up with Sansa is likely.  I also anticipate Sansa will go north, but not to Ramsay

Aegon is likely not a major player, given his and Arianne's absence from the show.

That's all I have for now.

[kissdbyfire]

But all of that can be predicted with books only info. So, basically, if all of that comes to pass, it only means it was the few things the show didn't fuck up too badly. 

[T and A]

The showrunners have said a thousend times, and they keep repeating it in every single interview, that the book and the show are gonna end at the same place. They have described the differences between the books and the show so often, that one should wonder, why this particular topic is still discussed. They said that the overall storyline is gonna be the same as the books.  They said that, a character is gonna go from A to B, in the books and in the show, B being the destiny of his story arch. On the way to B, the show and the books may differ (just like every other filmed book), but B ist still B.

Are they gonna cut out characters, that they feel are unneccesary for the overall plot? Sure! Are we gonna have some different character developments until the end? Sure! But that does not change the point, that you will exactly know, how the story will end.

Things that are definitly spoiled:

- Jon Snows resurrection: We waited for six years, to know what will hapen to Jon. Now you know it. Will his resurrection be the same in the books? Maybe/probably not entirely. But it does not change a bit, that we now know for sure, that he will be resurrected. How many years and how many topics and discussions have we had, about this? And now the show, not the books, answered it.

-(R)+L=J, Lyanna is Jons mother. Period. Rhaegar is still not confirmed in the show though. He probably will in a few months in season seven. All the R+L=J discussion is now dead (if you are not Preston Jaccobs). This discussion is over 15 years old. If that is not a spoiler, I don't know what is.

-The origin of the others. The mainplot of the series. How many threats are on this topic? We know now for sure that the children created them. Will it be different and more complex in the books? Of course it will. But it still does not change the fact that this will be the result.

What do we got more?

• Hodors name.
• Shireens burn.
• Jon becomming king in the north.
• Stanis death.
• Danny landing on Westeros (there were some folks who thought she is gonna die in Essos, and at some times during the books me to ).
• Arya returning to Westeros. 
• Bran leaving the cave and becoming the green seer. 
• Bloodraven dying.
• Tommen dying
• Myrcella dying
• Cercei becomming queen of Westeros

 

I could go on and on. I know that some will argue, that it will play different in the books, since character A is at point B, and so on and so on. I know that. I know it will not play out enterely in the books like in the show. But you still know the outcomme. That is the point. If you would have been told before ASOS came out, that Robb and Cat are gonna die, but not at the wedding but on the way to X, you still would have been completely spoiled, because you certainly would know that they are gonna die. What does GRRM allways say? He likes not to be predictive at his books. Well, good luck with that buddy.

In about one year, we will know how the story ends. And even if I like the show very much, I will be very sad, that I could not know the ending from the books. 

P.S. we should not be rude to each other while we discuss here. Some like the books, some like the show and the huge majority likes both. 

 

 

      

 

[Philokles]

1 hour ago, T and A said:

The showrunners have said a thousend times, and they keep repeating it in every single interview, that the book and the show are gonna end at the same place. They have described the differences between the books and the show so often, that one should wonder, why this particular topic is still discussed. They said that the overall storyline is gonna be the same as the books.  They said that, a character is gonna go from A to B, in the books and in the show, B being the destiny of his story arch. On the way to B, the show and the books may differ (just like every other filmed book), but B ist still B.

Are they gonna cut out characters, that they feel are unneccesary for the overall plot? Sure! Are we gonna have some different character developments until the end? Sure! But that does not change the point, that you will exactly know, how the story will end.

Things that are definitly spoiled:

- Jon Snows resurrection: We waited for six years, to know what will hapen to Jon. Now you know it. Will his resurrection be the same in the books? Maybe/probably not entirely. But it does not change a bit, that we now know for sure, that he will be resurrected. How many years and how many topics and discussions have we had, about this? And now the show, not the books, answered it.

-(R)+L=J, Lyanna is Jons mother. Period. Rhaegar is still not confirmed in the show though. He probably will in a few months in season seven. All the R+L=J discussion is now dead (if you are not Preston Jaccobs). This discussion is over 15 years old. If that is not a spoiler, I don't know what is.

-The origin of the others. The mainplot of the series. How many threats are on this topic? We know now for sure that the children created them. Will it be different and more complex in the books? Of course it will. But it still does not change the fact that this will be the result.

What do we got more?

• Hodors name.
• Shireens burn.
• Jon becomming king in the north.
• Stanis death.
• Danny landing on Westeros (there were some folks who thought she is gonna die in Essos, and at some times during the books me to ).
• Arya returning to Westeros. 
• Bran leaving the cave and becoming the green seer. 
• Bloodraven dying.
• Tommen dying
• Myrcella dying
• Cercei becomming queen of Westeros

 

I could go on and on. I know that some will argue, that it will play different in the books, since character A is at point B, and so on and so on. I know that. I know it will not play out enterely in the books like in the show. But you still know the outcomme. That is the point. If you would have been told before ASOS came out, that Robb and Cat are gonna die, but not at the wedding but on the way to X, you still would have been completely spoiled, because you certainly would know that they are gonna die. What does GRRM allways say? He likes not to be predictive at his books. Well, good luck with that buddy.

In about one year, we will know how the story ends. And even if I like the show very much, I will be very sad, that I could not know the ending from the books. 

P.S. we should not be rude to each other while we discuss here. Some like the books, some like the show and the huge majority likes both. 

The producers of a knock-off are unlikely to dwell on the ways in which their product differs from the original. Even if D&D know much about the ending outside of a handful of main characters and the basic resolution, their inability to come up with a coherent plot, total lack of care for and understanding of all but three characters, and unfounded belief that they can write a better story than GRRM makes it quite likely that the show's ending will be a good way different from the books'.

With the exception of Hodor meaning 'hold the door' and Shireen burning (in a totally different situation), there are no real major events in the show that are not either predictable from the books, never happening in a million years or so muddled that you can have no confidence either way.

[T and A]

49 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

The producers of a knock-off are unlikely to dwell on the ways in which their product differs from the original. Even if D&D know much about the ending outside of a handful of main characters and the basic resolution, their inability to come up with a coherent plot, total lack of care for and understanding of all but three characters

Right. That is why the Show got the most Emmy Awards in the History of Television even with the disadvantage of beeing a fantasy show (which unfortunatly still exist in hollywood).  Go tell that to the critics of people who understand televion. People like you, should also view critics outside of the westeros forum. GoT is best rated TV show on nearly every criticplatform. 

 

55 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

 

With the exception of Hodor meaning 'hold the door' and Shireen burning (in a totally different situation), there are no real major events in the show that are not either predictable from the books, never happening in a million years or so muddled that you can have no confidence either way.

Since you haven't read or understand anything I wrote, I herby end the discussion with you sir. Good day. 

[Philokles]

31 minutes ago, T and A said:

Right. That is why the Show got the most Emmy Awards in the History of Television even with the disadvantage of beeing a fantasy show (which unfortunatly still exist in hollywood).  Go tell that to the critics of people who understand televion. People like you, should also view critics outside of the westeros forum. GoT is best rated TV show on nearly every criticplatform. 

So anything that is popular is therefore inherently good and of a high standard? It is popular as it is base titillation whilst maintaining the respectability of a serious drama. One thing I'll admit that the show is good at is maintaining that facade. Littlefinger always looks like he has got a coherent scheme, and as long as you don't examine at the detail that impression remains.

There are huge unexplained and inexplicable plot holes and character inconsistencies that are just swept under the carpet. I do not see why I should bother with any critic who lacks the intelligence to see them or is so ruled by herd-mentality that they will gush over the series anyway.

 

31 minutes ago, T and A said:

Since you haven't read or understand anything I wrote, I herby end the discussion with you sir. Good day. 

I understood you perfectly, I was merely pointing out how you were incorrect.

Run away before the house of cards propping up the plot collapses.

[T and A]

2 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

So anything that is popular is therefore inherently good and of a high standard? It is popular as it is base titillation whilst maintaining the respectability of a serious drama. One thing I'll admit that the show is good at is maintaining that facade. Littlefinger always looks like he has got a coherent scheme, and as long as you don't examine at the detail that impression remains.

There are huge unexplained and inexplicable plot holes and character inconsistencies that are just swept under the carpet. I do not see why I should bother with any critic who lacks the intelligence to see them or is so ruled by herd-mentality that they will gush over the series anyway.

 

I understood you perfectly, I was merely pointing out how you were incorrect.

Run away before the house of cards propping up the plot collapses.

I did not spoke about the popularity of the show but about awards and general critics. That being said, popularity is allways a sign that something is good, otherwise people would not watch it. I am not that arrogant, to claim that people are stupid sheeps, like you are suggesting. Or claiming that I am better than everybody else, a way that you seem to see the world, regarding your way of comenting. 

But that was not the point of my original comment. The topic was, what was or is spoiled through the show. And I gave an answer. You just used this topic to bash on the show and on the opinion of other people who might like the show.

But arguing with some people is like playing ches with pidgeons. The rest is known. 

[Clegane'sPup]

This thread was moved from the book forum to the show forum.

What I’m trying to get across is that book readers who think that they can theorize or predict what Martin is going to write by what is shown on the show are incorrect.

An example of what I’m trying to say is the mystery of Benjen Stark. First time reading the novels I thought when Coldhands showed up he was Benjen. That turned out not to be true. There were bunches of theories about Benjen and Coldhands in the book forum.

Now that the show has placed Benjen in the role of Coldhands am I to suddenly think old theories are correct. Nope, but it was a fan theory. Does Benjen playing Coldhands mean the missing Benjen Stark is going to show up in the books and rescue Bran?

The Martin said this and D& D said this is publicity chatter. There was a video filmed at Oxford Union where cast members and D & D joked about Jon living in Ghost. That is a fan theory. It didn’t happen in the show and it is not clear that Mel resurrected Jon.

Sure I could say the show spoiled Jon’s life or death cliffhanger for some readers. I am in the minority group that thinks Jon was wounded not dead. Until WoW comes out the actual book cliffhanger is still open.

In the book forum posters try to slyly use the show to validate their opinions and to my way of thinking it does not work. Since GoT pulled that Bran, fBR and Hodor thing posters have been trying to push “time travel.” The topic can’t be openly discussed in the book forum because it relates to material in the show.

Another book forum topic that can’t be addressed is the CotF created the Others. I say they did not. In the show the CotF created the Night’t King. The Night’s King is a legend, a story within a story in the book. He is not an Other.

Am I making sense?

The characters that died in the show might very well die in the books. As to the end of the ASOIAF story being spoiled. Not my problem.

What I am yapping about in this thread is that from my POV the show material, so called spoilers, can’t be used to validate or justify a book theory. It doesn’t work because most of the material in season 5, 6 and 7 leaks has been streamlined to fit the show.

I don’t watch the show as it airs. I buy the DVD’s and binge watch.

[Philokles]

23 minutes ago, T and A said:

I did not spoke about the popularity of the show but about awards and general critics. That being said, popularity is allways a sign that something is good, otherwise people would not watch it. I am not that arrogant, to claim that people are stupid sheeps, like you are suggesting. Or claiming that I am better than everybody else, a way that you seem to see the world, regarding your way of comenting. 

But that was not the point of my original comment. The topic was, what was or is spoiled through the show. And I gave an answer. You just used this topic to bash on the show and on the opinion of other people who might like the show.

But arguing with some people is like playing ches with pidgeons. The rest is known. 

I don't blame anyone who wants to sit down for an hour and be entertained watching the show, but it quite simply is not a high quality programme. It isn't particularly surprising that those people are less likely to notice the discrepancies than someone who knows the books in depth. Critics and award panelists have no such excuses.

I was merely explaining why D&Ds weaknesses as showrunners make the books and show very different beasts. It was you who decided to only address the first half of that in your reply.

[T and A]

30 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

I don't blame anyone who wants to sit down for an hour and be entertained watching the show, but it quite simply is not a high quality programme. It isn't particularly surprising that those people are less likely to notice the discrepancies than someone who knows the books in depth. Critics and award panelists have no such excuses.

I was merely explaining why D&Ds weaknesses as showrunners make the books and show very different beasts. It was you who decided to only address the first half of that in your reply.

Yes I did. Because that is the topic here. But every topic in this forum ends with someone bashing the show. I am pretty sure there are 100 topics in this forum that discuss that matter. But this topic is only about spoilers from the show that can be derived at the books. 

If you want to discuss my ponts about potential spoilers, I would be glad, because I may be wrong about that. But I don't want to discuss here wether the show is good or bad. That is all I wanted to say.

[Ser Gareth]

On ‎27‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 5:26 AM, tblackjacks said:

I'm sure this is something that's been discussed a lot on here, but for people who haven't answered this question: how much of the new (not in the books yet) content in seasons 5 and 6 do you think is George R. R. Martin's ideas that will come up in the future books? The two that have been confirmed are Shireen's and Hodor's deaths, not sure if there have been more. But, for instance, I think in the Battle of Winterfell (between Jon and Ramsay) the idea of having Rickon run while Ramsay shot the arrows is George's idea, but I highly doubt Ramsay will be eaten by dogs. How about some other major plot points?

I think the delay in the release of TWOW is because GRRM is now waiting for the show to finish so that he can change many of his original subplots so that they are different to the TV show.  I'm actually 50/50 as to whether he'll change the entire ending too but as he is unlikely to ever finish the series it probably doesn't matter.  What may actually scupper him being able to do this is that fact that despite claims he is a "gardener" the amount of foreshadowing in the books contradicts this and he may have no choice but to follow through with his original plot.

So to answer your question, I don't think we'll ever know.  GRRM will almost certainly claim he didn't alter the story, even if he did.  Whether they'll occur in TWOW I don't know but things that have happened in the show that GRRM originally intended to happen in the books:

1) The Others origin story

2) Hodor, although I think it's more likely he'll be holding a door at the Wall

3) Summer's death (signalling the true start of winter)

4) Shireen's burning.  Whether Stannis is the instigator or not I don't know.  If he is, it'll be him burning her to stop the Other's invasion rather than battling the Boltons.

5) Dany killing a load of Khals and claiming the Dothraki as her own.

6) Mel resurrecting Jon.  But my expectation is that this will happen much later in TWOW.  If the foreshadowing is correct he may well be alone on the Wall as the Others pass through so my guess is that burning Shireen fails and the Others breach the Wall.  Mel realises it was Jon all along and kills Ghost (where Jon resides) and that brings Jon back to life.  His body is preserved in an ice cell with the Wall toppled on it and he has to dig his way out or something.

[Dragon in the North]

I would have preferred to read about these plot points rather than be spoiled by the tv show, but oh well. It is what it is.

Things I will be shocked won't happen in WOW or DOS:

Origin of the White Walkers

Jon's resurrection

Hodor's meaning

Dany sailing for Westeros

Arya leaving the Faceless Men and returning to Westeros

The Boltons being defeated

Jon leaves the Night's Watch

Dany takes over the khalasar

Cersei takes out the High Sparrow

Tommen's death

The Hound's return

 

Things I think are likely to happen in WOW or DOS:

Jon versus Boltons

Jon's crowned King in the North

Hodor's death

Summer's death

Bran leaves cave and becomes the Three Eyed Raven

Tyrion is made Hand of the Queen

 

Things I'm on the fence about:

The Blackfish dies

Cersei becomes Queen of the Seven Kingdoms

Cersei takes out the Tyrells

The Hound and Brotherhood travel North

 

[Dragon in the North]

2 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

I don't blame anyone who wants to sit down for an hour and be entertained watching the show, but it quite simply is not a high quality programme.

That's a matter of opinion. I think GOT is very high quality and that its Emmy wins are well earned.

[T and A]

18 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

That's a matter of opinion. I think GOT is very high quality and that its Emmy wins are well earned.

Pshhhhh...don't, just don't. Not here. Do not try that here. We have to obey the rules. We must hate the show. It is known. For free spech, try reddit.  

[Clegane'sPup]

2 hours ago, T and A said:

Pshhhhh...don't, just don't. Not here. Do not try that here. We have to obey the rules. We must hate the show. It is known. For free spech, try reddit.  

Argh, har and pshhhhhhhhh, Wanna make this a show vs book thingamajig keep on doing what you be doing.

On 1/27/2017 at 0:26 AM, tblackjacks said:

how much of the new (not in the books yet) content in seasons 5 and 6 do you think is George R. R. Martin's ideas that will come up in the future books?

Will you @T and A care to respond to the original post question? Look at the op question.