Content from book 6 already portrayed on show?

[The Arthur Smith]

Despite whether the viewers like it or not, D&D stressed many times that the show will end similarly like the book. It won't be the same exactly given the omit of many characters and storylines from the book like fAegon, but the tone and theme will be the same. And if anyone gonna argue D&D might change their plan for the ending, why would they do that after so many years of collaborating with GRMM about the future for GoT now that the show is successful. 

As for huge spoilers on the show, some things may or may not be the same in the book. Like the Hold the Door reveal and Bran becoming the Three Eyed Crow sounds believable. But for Shireen's death, we really don't how that's gonna play out since in the book, many fans argue that Shireen resided at the Wall and Stannis is far distance from the Wall, so Stannis wouldn't directly sacrifice Shireen.      Also, some plot may not be a thing in the book due to either trying to explain for the show's storylines or merge plots and characters from the book. In particular is the WW's origin, noticed that D&D didn't say that this will be the same in the book unlike Shireen's and Hodor's death? They probably invented this in order to give show watchers the explanation of where the WW come from, something that the book may not do the same thing as GoT have less magic compared to its book counterpart. And with Cersei becoming queen of Westeros, I doubt the book will go that way due to the complexity with Cersei's situation in the book. However, given that the show removed fAegon, I believe they are trying to merge fAegon's with Cersei's storyline.

As again, the show's path will be different from the book, but the destination will be the same. Some spoilers will be a thing in Winds and Spring.

[Drogonthedread]

20 hours ago, T and A said:

The showrunners have said a thousend times, and they keep repeating it in every single interview, that the book and the show are gonna end at the same place. They have described the differences between the books and the show so often, that one should wonder, why this particular topic is still discussed. They said that the overall storyline is gonna be the same as the books.  They said that, a character is gonna go from A to B, in the books and in the show, B being the destiny of his story arch. On the way to B, the show and the books may differ (just like every other filmed book), but B ist still B.

Are they gonna cut out characters, that they feel are unneccesary for the overall plot? Sure! Are we gonna have some different character developments until the end? Sure! But that does not change the point, that you will exactly know, how the story will end.

Things that are definitly spoiled:

- Jon Snows resurrection: We waited for six years, to know what will hapen to Jon. Now you know it. Will his resurrection be the same in the books? Maybe/probably not entirely. But it does not change a bit, that we now know for sure, that he will be resurrected. How many years and how many topics and discussions have we had, about this? And now the show, not the books, answered it.

-(R)+L=J, Lyanna is Jons mother. Period. Rhaegar is still not confirmed in the show though. He probably will in a few months in season seven. All the R+L=J discussion is now dead (if you are not Preston Jaccobs). This discussion is over 15 years old. If that is not a spoiler, I don't know what is.

-The origin of the others. The mainplot of the series. How many threats are on this topic? We know now for sure that the children created them. Will it be different and more complex in the books? Of course it will. But it still does not change the fact that this will be the result.

What do we got more?

• Hodors name.
• Shireens burn.
• Jon becomming king in the north.
• Stanis death.
• Danny landing on Westeros (there were some folks who thought she is gonna die in Essos, and at some times during the books me to ).
• Arya returning to Westeros. 
• Bran leaving the cave and becoming the green seer. 
• Bloodraven dying.
• Tommen dying
• Myrcella dying
• Cercei becomming queen of Westeros

 

I could go on and on. I know that some will argue, that it will play different in the books, since character A is at point B, and so on and so on. I know that. I know it will not play out enterely in the books like in the show. But you still know the outcomme. That is the point. If you would have been told before ASOS came out, that Robb and Cat are gonna die, but not at the wedding but on the way to X, you still would have been completely spoiled, because you certainly would know that they are gonna die. What does GRRM allways say? He likes not to be predictive at his books. Well, good luck with that buddy.

In about one year, we will know how the story ends. And even if I like the show very much, I will be very sad, that I could not know the ending from the books. 

P.S. we should not be rude to each other while we discuss here. Some like the books, some like the show and the huge majority likes both. 

 

 

      

 

 

I agree with everything your list od which events spoiled ..

 

13 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

I don't blame anyone who wants to sit down for an hour and be entertained watching the show, but it quite simply is not a high quality programme. It isn't particularly surprising that those people are less likely to notice the discrepancies than someone who knows the books in depth. Critics and award panelists have no such excuses.

I was merely explaining why D&Ds weaknesses as showrunners make the books and show very different beasts. It was you who decided to only address the first half of that in your reply.

Hmm that is your opinion mate and don't expect others to have the same.

Iam by no means show apologist ..I recognize the problems the show and how much it differs from the books  .but I recognize their problems and number of constraints they need to face ..

Yes we can't expect the same depth of books anymore but as Show it stands as best and it entertains their target audience and be number 1 in doing so..the show can only be seen weak when books are considered on its own show is doing good.

And you can't blame show or D&D alone for the mess this series is now ..the majority of the blame is in GRRm and on the last two books that were released ..

Yes show and books are different beasts ..at least the show is delievered on the time every year they say they will air ...and the writing only takes them 3 to 4 months ..so forgive them if they can't come up with such depth and intricate plots during those 4 months while there are writers who fail to do so when they have 5 to 6 years in their hands .

 

 

 

[T and A]

10 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Argh, har and pshhhhhhhhh, Wanna make this a show vs book thingamajig keep on doing what you be doing.

Will you @T and A care to respond to the original post question? Look at the op question.

I have. I gave a pretty long answer to that. As you can see. It was not me who started this show bashing discussion. I already pointed to that. Have you read tze comments at all?

 

22 hours ago, T and A said:

The showrunners have said a thousend times, and they keep repeating it in every single interview, that the book and the show are gonna end at the same place. They have described the differences between the books and the show so often, that one should wonder, why this particular topic is still discussed. They said that the overall storyline is gonna be the same as the books.  They said that, a character is gonna go from A to B, in the books and in the show, B being the destiny of his story arch. On the way to B, the show and the books may differ (just like every other filmed book), but B ist still B.

Are they gonna cut out characters, that they feel are unneccesary for the overall plot? Sure! Are we gonna have some different character developments until the end? Sure! But that does not change the point, that you will exactly know, how the story will end.

Things that are definitly spoiled:

- Jon Snows resurrection: We waited for six years, to know what will hapen to Jon. Now you know it. Will his resurrection be the same in the books? Maybe/probably not entirely. But it does not change a bit, that we now know for sure, that he will be resurrected. How many years and how many topics and discussions have we had, about this? And now the show, not the books, answered it.

-(R)+L=J, Lyanna is Jons mother. Period. Rhaegar is still not confirmed in the show though. He probably will in a few months in season seven. All the R+L=J discussion is now dead (if you are not Preston Jaccobs). This discussion is over 15 years old. If that is not a spoiler, I don't know what is.

-The origin of the others. The mainplot of the series. How many threats are on this topic? We know now for sure that the children created them. Will it be different and more complex in the books? Of course it will. But it still does not change the fact that this will be the result.

What do we got more?

• Hodors name.
• Shireens burn.
• Jon becomming king in the north.
• Stanis death.
• Danny landing on Westeros (there were some folks who thought she is gonna die in Essos, and at some times during the books me to ).
• Arya returning to Westeros. 
• Bran leaving the cave and becoming the green seer. 
• Bloodraven dying.
• Tommen dying
• Myrcella dying
• Cercei becomming queen of Westeros

 

I could go on and on. I know that some will argue, that it will play different in the books, since character A is at point B, and so on and so on. I know that. I know it will not play out enterely in the books like in the show. But you still know the outcomme. 

 

 

      

 

 

[BalerionTheCat]

There are a lot of theories on the book's side. And some are so much evidenced (IMO), that I see their existence in the show more as a confirmation (if it was necessary) than as a spoiler. For example R+L=J (less Rhaegar and some speculations about Ice and Fire blood). Jon really dead and reborn (I expect a much different rebirth). Jon leaving the NW (but not blatantly breaking his vows), Daenerys returning with the Dothrakis and the Ironborn.

Yes, some characters will die, some will burn. But probably in quite different manner and time. Not much is sill generally the same. The final conclusion may be the same, but there will be much to say about the differences.

[A Ghost of Someone]

I would assume a few things:

Jon Snow's resurrection.

The Fall of House bolton.

Bran's visions and fleeing from the North towards home.

Arya's resolution in Braavos and is headed home.

The resolution of the Seige of Mereen.

Dany embarking for Westeros with Tyrion in her party.

The deaths of Tommen and Myrcella Baratheon (Hill actually)

 

[T and A]

49 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

I would assume a few things:

Jon Snow's resurrection.

The Fall of House bolton.

Bran's visions and fleeing from the North towards home.

Arya's resolution in Braavos and is headed home.

The resolution of the Seige of Mereen.

Dany embarking for Westeros with Tyrion in her party.

The deaths of Tommen (Hill actually)

 

I agree with all of them. 

[Clegane'sPup]

6 hours ago, T and A said:

Have you read tze comments at all?

Aye, I have been reading the comments since page one. It appears to me that you did not appreciate my humor so I keep it to myself.

The show has not spoiled anything for me. That’s my personal take. An ending is an ending. I can understand other individuals POV though.

Shireen’s death is sorta hinted at in the books. Paraphrasing here, Val, a wilding woman, says because of Shireen’s grayscale she is unclean and should die.

As to Hodor’s possible impending demise it has not been confirmed. I can’t provide the SSM or Martin actually stating it but it has been bandied about that Hodor and Nan’s back story will be revealed. Whether it will be in one of the novellas or ASOIAF I do not know.

One of my curiosities about Martin’s characters relates to Benjen Stark. Where is he, is he alive or dead? The show popped up with a Coldhands Benjen. What am I to make of that as it relates to WoW? Should I assume Benjen is alive or dead.

GoT Bran leaves the CotF cave via a back door.  According to the book:  "The back door is three leagues (about 9 miles from the cave opening)  north, down a sinkhole." Which one, Coldhands or Benjen Stark helps Bran climb out of the sinkhole and back through the secret Black Gate? I mean Bran has to get south of the Wall some way. Maybe, just maybe, Bran & companions use the underground cave system that is supposed to exist.

Anyway, yes, the show may have spoiled some things for some of the readers, depends on their interests. I accept that GoT will provide an ending. I am not spoiled, but glad. GoT like the pink/bastard letter has a bit of truth in it, but the ASOIAF DoS (if indeed it is the last book) will have the actual ending.

Maybe this thread will give book readers a place to express what has or has not been spoiled for them.

[T and A]

2 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Aye, I have been reading the comments since page one. It appears to me that you did not appreciate my humor so I keep it to myself.

The show has not spoiled anything for me. That’s my personal take. An ending is an ending. I can understand other individuals POV though.

Shireen’s death is sorta hinted at in the books. Paraphrasing here, Val, a wilding woman, says because of Shireen’s grayscale she is unclean and should die.

As to Hodor’s possible impending demise it has not been confirmed. I can’t provide the SSM or Martin actually stating it but it has been bandied about that Hodor and Nan’s back story will be revealed. Whether it will be in one of the novellas or ASOIAF I do not know.

One of my curiosities about Martin’s characters relates to Benjen Stark. Where is he, is he alive or dead? The show popped up with a Coldhands Benjen. What am I to make of that as it relates to WoW? Should I assume Benjen is alive or dead.

GoT Bran leaves the CotF cave via a back door.  According to the book:  "The back door is three leagues (about 9 miles from the cave opening)  north, down a sinkhole." Which one, Coldhands or Benjen Stark helps Bran climb out of the sinkhole and back through the secret Black Gate? I mean Bran has to get south of the Wall some way. Maybe, just maybe, Bran & companions use the underground cave system that is supposed to exist.

Anyway, yes, the show may have spoiled some things for some of the readers, depends on their interests. I accept that GoT will provide an ending. I am not spoiled, but glad. GoT like the pink/bastard letter has a bit of truth in it, but the ASOIAF DoS (if indeed it is the last book) will have the actual ending.

Maybe this thread will give book readers a place to express what has or has not been spoiled for them.

Ok. I did indeed not got the humor :). 

It is of course a matter of the definition what spoilers are. If you have a very strict definition, by which you want a 100 per cent coverage of the book, then you might not be spoiled. A lot of characters (e.g. Aegon, Victarion, Ariane) are cut or merged (Coldhands/Benjen, Victarion/Jorah Mormont). So by this standard you wont be spoiled. Or at least not punctually. 

But, if you talk about the overall story, and not chararcter based, then it seems naive to think we won't be spoiled. The story is the story. And I do not believe (and I surely hope he won't) that GRRM will change the story because of GoT. 

[Russellstiltskin]

On January 28, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Horse of Kent said:

I don't blame anyone who wants to sit down for an hour and be entertained watching the show, but it quite simply is not a high quality programme. It isn't particularly surprising that those people are less likely to notice the discrepancies than someone who knows the books in depth. Critics and award panelists have no such excuses.

I was merely explaining why D&Ds weaknesses as showrunners make the books and show very different beasts. It was you who decided to only address the first half of that in your reply.

Don't get it. You aren't citing enough source material or really giving clear examples at all that would support you making these kinds of statements (as well as the ones from earlier posts in this thread.)  What do you consider to be a "quality" show?  The performances, set pieces, filming locales, costumes, arms, armor, and overall scope of story are all among the most impressive ever seen on the "small screen," regardless of network, season by season. Dude, what the hell makes you think that "critics and award panelists" give a good Shay fuck about reading the source material a show or film is adapted from?I can think of only one category that MIGHT necessitate this at all..."critics and award panelists have no such excuse." Yeah, that's rich.  Smh.

It seems to me that the logistics of adapting a a work like aSoIaFto a tv show, regardless of the producers/directors, budget, or network involvedis the real reason behind your actual gripes, more than the strength or lackthereof concerning D&D's showrunning capabilities, and sadly, these things are unavoidable as decisions will always have to be made regarding plotline, plotpoints, and the character development or even absence or combination of characters.  Budget will always be an issue, perhaps never moreso than in this instance. For many reasons, some events in the books may not transfer well to a live-action medium. Some will be cut for time, others for budget, some for personal preferences. Do you realize how many people are involved in these decisions at the highest levels? You can't possibly believe it's realistic to think HBO or anyone else, ftm, would simply say: "you have unlimited budget and time to film and present, but for the love of God, DO NOT LEAVE ANYTHING OUT FROM THE NOVELS!"

The majority of us would have loved for this to be the case, but my reasons listed above are just some of the reasons that adaptations from novels ALWAYS change things to one degree or another.  The sheer scope of the logistical nightmare that bringing aSoIaF to life must be is difficult to grasp, I think. Given that, the show and it's players have performed admirably, imho. Of course we will have our disappointments when we are all so invested in the novels. But that doesn't mean the people working on the show are incompetent. Sheesh.

To be taken seriously, you would have to do that and remove the over-the-top vitriol and bias that comes from some of your fave plot points and characters being left out of the HBO series.  The books and the show ARE different beasts. Because, well, because they are different beasts to begin with.

[Philokles]

As has already been said many a time, this is not the place to be discussing the show's weaknesses. Hence why I didn't go into any more depth than I needed to on them earlier. Check out the Rant and Rave threads if you want to learn more.

To briefly answer some of your other queries: I have no problem with plots/characters being cut, but it should be done in a logical manner and as little as possible. In my opinion, a high quality programme must be well written, with no glaring plot holes and character inconsistencies. No, I do not expect critics to read the books, but I do expect them to critically analyse what they are watching.

[Cas Stark]

A lot of things that were predictable...Jon not staying dead, Arya coming back to Westeros, the Hound, Cersei's children dying....have been confirmed. Then there are things that were speculated about...like whether Bran leaves the caves or not, Rickon's purpose, Benjen, the Blackfish, the wall falling....which seem to have been confirmed.  

Also, it's pretty hard to argue that anything relating to Dorne is important to the main story with the show having killed off Doran and not even introducing Aegon.  Same for Vic.  

[BalerionTheCat]

About everything that happened in the show, and has some meaning in the books (no Dorne here), had been speculated by the book's readers. With more or less people believing or disbelieving, with more or less confidence/certainty. Of course the show has changed this. Increasing or decreasing the confidence. At least for those not already fully convinced by the books evidences and facts.

Jon dead, but not staying dead, or R+L=J, were (IMO) quite established theories. The show has not changed much beliefs there.

Bran leaving the caves was also a quite common speculation. But personally I have much doubt here, about the show consistence with the books. Just me, but in book, Bloodraven is positively melded with the tree. It is the same for the ancient CotF greenseers in the other caverns. So the tree joining could be a necessary state for greenseers. Leaf gave Bran weirwood seeds to eat. So I expect something weirwood to grow in Bran's body. I really expect him to become like Bloodraven and staying in the cave. It seems to me a necessary condition to operate as a full greenseer. Plus the cave seems a hallowed place for the Old Gods. And I believe GRRM created Rickon, because he needs someone at Winterfell. And it will be neither Jon not Bran. I will not argue with anyone here, but I will wait TWoW before acknowledging the future of Bran's story.