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How did Illyrio get the dragon eggs?


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Illyrio, of course, attends the wedding feast in Daenerys II, Game 11, when we learn that, through Illyrio, Khal Drogo has promised Viserys a crown. While this is a foreshadowing of the crown of molten gold Drogo actually gives Viserys, the passage clearly suggests to the reader that Drogo has bargained for his bride by promising to support materially Viserys’s claim. But we can only trust Illyrio so far. So, whether Drogo actually promised to support Viserys’s claim in exchange for his Targaryen bride, or Drogo actually promised Illyrio a number of Dothraki fighters, or Illyrio brokered the marriage to secure Drogo’s friendship in hopes of obtaining his material support, we cannot know with certainty. In any event, Illyrio tells us that Drogo will not aid Viserys until after he presents Daenerys to the dosh khaleen, and then, only “if the omens favor war," suggesting that Viserys should be prepared to wait “another few years." 

Once again, we see a hint that Illyrio has some ulterior motive. When Viserys claims that he is “no lesser man,” but “the rightful Lord of the Seven Kingdoms,” and that “[t]he dragon does not beg," Daenerys notices. . .

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Illyrio smiled enigmatically and tore a wing from the duck. Honey and grease ran over his fingers and dripped down into his beard as he nibbled at the tender meat.

A bit later, we encounter the three egg MacGuffins. . .

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"Dragon's eggs, from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai," said Magister Illyrio. "The eons have turned them to stone, yet still they burn bright with beauty."

We are told expressly that these three dragon’s eggs are ancient, petrified eggs from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, and we recall that Illyrio is a trader in dragonbone with a trading network that stretches to the fabled lands beside the Jade Sea.

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"I shall treasure them always." Dany had heard tales of such eggs, but she had never seen one, nor thought to see one. It was a truly magnificent gift, though she knew that Illyrio could afford to be lavish. He had collected a fortune in horses and slaves for his part in selling her to Khal Drogo.

Here we learn that the three dragon’s eggs are worth the fortune in horses and slaves that Illyrio collected from Drogo for brokering the marriage pact. Does this mean that Illyrio gave Daenerys to Drogo, so Drogo gave Illyrio a fortune in horses and slaves? If so, then Drogo would not “owe” Viserys a crown, would he? On the other hand, should we believe that Daenerys’s property was, in fact, the property of her khal, and that by giving Daenerys such “a truly magnificent gift,” that Illyrio had upset the gift-giving balance back in his favor?

Keep in mind this could be nothing more than a plot device. In his 1993 letter, outlining A Song of Ice and Fire, we see that The George initially intended to have Daenerys stumble upon a nest of petrified dragon’s eggs on the edge of the Dothraki Sea.

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8 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Illyrio, of course, attends the wedding feast in Daenerys II, Game 11, when we learn that, through Illyrio, Khal Drogo has promised Viserys a crown. While this is a foreshadowing of the crown of molten gold Drogo actually gives Viserys, the passage clearly suggests to the reader that Drogo has bargained for his bride by promising to support materially Viserys’s claim. But we can only trust Illyrio so far. So, whether Drogo actually promised to support Viserys’s claim in exchange for his Targaryen bride, or Drogo actually promised Illyrio a number of Dothraki fighters, or Illyrio brokered the marriage to secure Drogo’s friendship in hopes of obtaining his material support, we cannot know with certainty. In any event, Illyrio tells us that Drogo will not aid Viserys until after he presents Daenerys to the dosh khaleen, and then, only “if the omens favor war," suggesting that Viserys should be prepared to wait “another few years." 

Once again, we see a hint that Illyrio has some ulterior motive. When Viserys claims that he is “no lesser man,” but “the rightful Lord of the Seven Kingdoms,” and that “[t]he dragon does not beg," Daenerys notices. . .

A bit later, we encounter the three egg MacGuffins. . .

We are told expressly that these three dragon’s eggs are ancient, petrified eggs from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, and we recall that Illyrio is a trader in dragonbone with a trading network that stretches to the fabled lands beside the Jade Sea.

Here we learn that the three dragon’s eggs are worth the fortune in horses and slaves that Illyrio collected from Drogo for brokering the marriage pact. Does this mean that Illyrio gave Daenerys to Drogo, so Drogo gave Illyrio a fortune in horses and slaves? If so, then Drogo would not “owe” Viserys a crown, would he? On the other hand, should we believe that Daenerys’s property was, in fact, the property of her khal, and that by giving Daenerys such “a truly magnificent gift,” that Illyrio had upset the gift-giving balance back in his favor?

Keep in mind this could be nothing more than a plot device. In his 1993 letter, outlining A Song of Ice and Fire, we see that The George initially intended to have Daenerys stumble upon a nest of petrified dragon’s eggs on the edge of the Dothraki Sea.

Yeah I thought about the outline, but since George (thank god) didn't go that route I'm convinced the eggs must be more than plot.

Who gave them to Illyrio? They are from Asshai (allegedly) but could they originally be from Westeros? 

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The eggs were stolen from Aerys II by Varys who then handed them to Illyrio. We learned in TWoIaF that Aerys II found dragon eggs on Dragonstone which were turned to stone due to their old age and tried to hatch them unsuccessfully some time after Duskendale.

Since Robert Baratheon doesn't have any dragon eggs, and neither do Joffrey/Tommen or Stannis, who ruled Dragonstone after the Targaryens (and neither Loras whose people didn't find any dragon eggs on the island, either), since Viserys III also didn't own any dragon eggs as far as we know we can safely say that Aerys II's eggs disappeared without a trace. Where the hell did they go?

And we have no confirmation that you actually can buy dragon eggs in the Shadowlands beyond Asshai. But we do know you can only buy painted stones in Qarth. The idea that Illyrio actually has two potential sources to lay his hands on dragon eggs - Varys/KL and some connections in the Jade Sea - is narrative overkill. It is either Varys or the Jade Sea. And since we know for a fact he is working with Varys it is pretty clear what George wants you to believe.

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Given the Taragryen tradition of placing a dragon egg in a newborns bed seemed to continue untill at least the events of summerhall, Varys may have procured more than just Aerys eggs over the years.

While I favour the explanation of Danys eggs being Aerys, is there a chance Illyrio kept The Mad Kings clutch for Aegon? A kings eggs woulf fit nicely with "the rightful king" after all, and Aegon may have ended up with one of Aerys eggs anyway had the Rebellion not suceeded (that is, if he is the real Aegon)

Now we have little real evidence that Varys and Illyrio were aware of the potential Dany would hatch her eggs, but I imagine they are well aquainted with knowledge of dragon lore, Valyrian history and such. If you spend 14 years developing a plot to restore a family with the blood of old Valyria to the Iron Throne, wouldn't it be wise to try find as many dragon eggs as possible, just incase? Also, if they are indeed related to the Blackfyres, then it could be possible they also have severall Blackfyre Eggs. We know Daemon II Blackfyre tried to get his hands on Lord Butterwells egg and failed, so would it be much of a stretch to imagine the Blackfyres and eventually Golden Company spending years on various "egg hunts"?

It's all speculation at this point but the evidence does point to Aerys eggs being the ones Dany recieves.

I do wonder why Illyrio claimed the eggs were from the shadowlands however. I imagine the good magister and Varys would have done at least a bit of research over the years into the rumoured "birthplace of dragons".

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i do not think even Illyrio could buy 3...in the traditional sense..

if the eggs were bartered for, I could see 1 being for gold, and the other 2 for something MUCH, MUCH MORE.

if the theory out there proves to be true that Euron used a dragon egg as payment to the FM for King Balon's contract, precedence has been set for how valuable these things are. (pretty big jump without much evidence to support, but this theory is well known)

a kings life = 1 egg

i just cannot see a simple gold for eggs transaction.

 

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55 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

I do wonder why Illyrio claimed the eggs were from the shadowlands however. I imagine the good magister and Varys would have done at least a bit of research over the years into the rumoured "birthplace of dragons".

If those eggs do turn out have come from a Targaryen clutch, I would assume it's a retcon. Unless the author explains otherwise, it would like like he started out having her stumble on them in the Dothraki Sea, then worked it into the Illyrio plot, and sometime later came up with the other possibility. @Lord Varys, when did he first hint there were Targaryen eggs left over? 

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7 minutes ago, DigUpHerBones said:

i do not think even Illyrio could buy 3...in the traditional sense..

if the eggs were bartered for, I could see 1 being for gold, and the other 2 for something MUCH, MUCH MORE.

if the theory out there proves to be true that Euron used a dragon egg as payment to the FM for King Balon's contract, precedence has been set for how valuable these things are. (pretty big jump without much evidence to support, but this theory is well known)

a kings life = 1 egg

i just cannot see a simple gold for eggs transaction.

 

Dany says explicitly that they were worth a fortune in slaves and horses, which Illyrio received for brokering the marriage. 

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5 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

If those eggs do turn out have come from a Targaryen clutch, I would assume it's a retcon. Unless the author explains otherwise, it would like like he started out having her stumble on them in the Dothraki Sea, then worked it into the Illyrio plot, and sometime later came up with the other possibility. @Lord Varys, when did he first hint there were Targaryen eggs left over? 

Sure, the explanation is likely a retcon, which doesn't mean it's not the one that best fits the story as a whole. Specially in comparison with alternatives. The possibility that the eggs were acquired as Illyrio claimed exists of course, however we don't have notice of any other egg around that suggest they are available, with the exception of the alleged Euron's egg. If people in Volantis, Lys or Assai had access to dragons eggs, I'd expect to hear of weird events whilst trying to hatch them. The whole world has heard about Dany's dragons by now.

Why weren't the eggs given to Aegon?

Well, we know that while Illyrio's actions in AGOT are not fully consistent with a Targaryen loyalist, one cannot say he had a second claimant already. He would have mention 'the boy' in Ilyrio-Varys dialogue that Arya overheard.

So, we have to find a retcon for that. Some possibilities.

1) Illyrio&Varys do not seem to be great fans of magic.

2) Illyrio&Varys tried to hatch the eggs to not avail. Tyrion mentions that some books of dragonlore can be found in Illyrio manse, not the best ones, but nevertheless. Captain Groleo bough some rare books for Illyrio too.

3) After 1) or 2) they considered it was a good price to pay for a khalasar.

4) Maybe they had other eggs and were intended to be given to Aegon and they were intercepted by Euron, along with other treasures.

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12 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

Sure, the explanation is likely a retcon, which doesn't mean it's not the one that best fits the story as a whole. Specially in comparison with alternatives. The possibility that the eggs were acquired as Illyrio claimed exists of course, however we don't have notice of any other egg around that suggest they are available, with the exception of the alleged Euron's egg. If people in Volantis, Lys or Assai had access to dragons eggs, I'd expect to hear of weird events whilst trying to hatch them. The whole world has heard about Dany's dragons by now.

Why weren't the eggs given to Aegon?

Well, we know that while Illyrio's actions in AGOT are not fully consistent with a Targaryen loyalist, one cannot say he had a second claimant already. He would have mention 'the boy' in Ilyrio-Varys dialogue that Arya overheard.

So, we have to find a retcon for that. Some possibilities.

1) Illyrio&Varys do not seem to be great fans of magic.

2) Illyrio&Varys tried to hatch the eggs to not avail. Tyrion mentions that some books of dragonlore can be found in Illyrio manse, not the best ones, but nevertheless. Captain Groleo bough some rare books for Illyrio too.

3) After 1) or 2) they considered it was a good price to pay for a khalasar.

4) Maybe they had other eggs and were intended to be given to Aegon and they were intercepted by Euron, along with other treasures.

True enough. 

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4 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Given the Taragryen tradition of placing a dragon egg in a newborns bed seemed to continue untill at least the events of summerhall, Varys may have procured more than just Aerys eggs over the years.

While I favour the explanation of Danys eggs being Aerys, is there a chance Illyrio kept The Mad Kings clutch for Aegon?

Since we don't know how many eggs Aerys II found on Dragonstone they could have kept three additional eggs for Aegon (if it were six in total) or even six (if it were nine in total). We have no idea.

However, the idea that Daenerys Targaryen - a person Illyrio claims was originally not a key pawn in 'the grand plan' - got three eggs and their golden boy Aegon got none makes no sense at all.

But then George would have thought about that, too. And there are those chests Illyrio gave to Duck early on in ADwD. Tyrion realized they were too light to contain gold and gemstones, and I think we all agree that Haldon lied when he claimed there were precious clothes in there. Or rather, he might have lied by saying that there were only such clothes in there. I expect them to have made some fitting clothes for Aegon in the Targaryen colors, depicting the Targaryen banner, etc. Perhaps even a replica of the (or the recovered) crown of the Conqueror (although the latter could also be a fine wedding gift of Arianne's or Doran's to Aegon) or the former crown of Aerys II (originally made and first worn by Aegon the Unworthy). That thing could have disappeared after the Sack, too.

From the earlier version of the chapter we know that Illyrio and Haldon originally talked about 'the sword' so there is a good chance that Blackfyre is also in one of those chests. 

Why not expect there to find another bunch of dragon eggs in there? It would be fitting, and now with magic returning those one or two of those eggs could hatch, too. Aegon's dragons might not reach the size of Dany's but if he had his own dragon he would be special, too. He could even become a dragonrider by the time she finally gets to Westeros.

All the dragon eggs the fresher Targaryen dragon eggs seem to have been destroyed at Summerhall. Egg tried to hatch seven eggs, but we can reasonably assume that some got lost or destroyed in the meantime. There weren't quite a few attempts to hatch dragon eggs after the last dragon died. Presumably the first such attempt, involving the nine mages, also destroyed the eggs they tried to hatch back then. 

From Egg we know that the last dragon left five eggs alone, and that in his days there were other eggs, back on Dragonstone from before the Dance. Those would be the ones that Aerys II later uncovered. But in Egg's childhood the Targaryens must have still had dozens of dragon eggs if the fact that he got one into the cradle is any indication. His elders siblings would have all gotten eggs, too, as would have his uncles and elder cousins. And by the time of his birth Daeron II and Princess Elaena were still around, still retaining their eggs, presumably.

@Lost Melnibonean

I think the first hint at there being dragon eggs around in the Targaryen family came from the description of the daughters of Aegon III. That was before TMK was published where the practice of putting eggs into the cradles of Targaryen children was first introduced into the story.

And ADwD then first mentioned that there were supposed to be such eggs on Dragonstone.

I don't think we have to see Dany's eggs coming from Varys and the Targaryens as a retcon. AGoT very early on establishes that Dany is wary of Illyrio's motives and does not really trust him, so his claim that they are from Asshai does not have to be seen as anything as his way of preventing Viserys III from claiming the eggs as his property. Not to mention that he could appear generous to the extreme this way when he in fact did not pay anything for those dragon eggs.

3 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Well, we know that while Illyrio's actions in AGOT are not fully consistent with a Targaryen loyalist, one cannot say he had a second claimant already. He would have mention 'the boy' in Ilyrio-Varys dialogue that Arya overheard.

They did not have to mention 'the lad' in there. Arya only overheard part of their conversation, and what she heard concerned the planned Dothraki invasion, nothing else. The important clue back then that they aren't backing Viserys III is that they never call him their king or even refer to him. The important thing there is the Dothraki invasion, and that, most likely, because it would help weaken Westeros for Aegon, one way or another.

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I know the wiki isn't canon, but it does contain a list of known dragon eggs. None of the ones that are described match Dany's in description, but there are some interesting coincidences:

Rhaenyra Targ took three eggs to the Vale during the Dance, whereabouts unknown.

The last dragon laid five eggs before she died during the reign of A III. The dragon was small and sickly, but Ser Arlen described the eggs as "hard as stone, but beautiful." So the eggs do not need to be all that old to appear petrified. The egg's whereabouts are unknown.

There were also seven eggs at Summerhall, supposedly destroyed by fire (?:blink:)

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2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Dany says explicitly that they were worth a fortune in slaves and horses, which Illyrio received for brokering the marriage. 

I don't read that as explicitly as you do.

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"I shall treasure them always." Dany had heard tales of such eggs, but she had never seen one, nor thought to see one. It was a truly magnificent gift, though she knew that Illyrio could afford to be lavish. He had collected a fortune in horses and slaves for his part in selling her to Khal Drogo.

That quote states that Dany is worth a fortune in horses and slaves and serves as an example of Illyrio being extremely wealthy.  Khal Drogo  bartered this fortune in horses and slaves for a Targaryen princess.  The eggs were a gift and while it was obviously a lavish one I don't think anyone expected petrified eggs to be anything more than a reminder of the former glory days of the Targs.  The eggs were a lavish gift because they were rare and beautiful but they were a gift.  And there is no clue that Illyrio, Khal Drogo, Dany or anyone thought that the eggs were still viable and would actually hatch which made the gift far more valuable than anyone realized when the gifting took place.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

But then George would have thought about that, too. And there are those chests Illyrio gave to Duck early on in ADwD. Tyrion realized they were too light to contain gold and gemstones, and I think we all agree that Haldon lied when he claimed there were precious clothes in there. Or rather, he might have lied by saying that there were only such clothes in there. I expect them to have made some fitting clothes for Aegon in the Targaryen colors, depicting the Targaryen banner, etc.

This is a good observation. Tyrion was ordered to write down everything he knew about dragons, which is quite a bit, although I guess not enough. Illyrio was also acquiring literature about dragonlore before, but Tyrion notices the books were nothing special.

Where do you think the alleged Euron's egg comes from?

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1 hour ago, White Ravens said:

That quote states that Dany is worth a fortune in horses and slaves and serves as an example of Illyrio being extremely wealthy.  Khal Drogo  bartered this fortune in horses and slaves for a Targaryen princess.  The eggs were a gift and while it was obviously a lavish one I don't think anyone expected petrified eggs to be anything more than a reminder of the former glory days of the Targs.  The eggs were a lavish gift because they were rare and beautiful but they were a gift.  And there is no clue that Illyrio, Khal Drogo, Dany or anyone thought that the eggs were still viable and would actually hatch which made the gift far more valuable than anyone realized when the gifting took place.

I think the bold part is important. Maybe Illyrio made a genuine mistake in giving the eggs to Dany thinking on them as nothing else than beautiful stones. But even in that case shouldn't he have reserved one for his 'lad' as symbol of status?  If there are still petrified eggs around, people should be trying to hatch them by now.

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I think that the eggs being from Asshai is just as likely as them being from Westeros. Both could be true, actually, because nobody is quite sure what happened to some of the Targaryen eggs - is there not a possibility that the Blackfyres somehow got some eggs and lost them in exile and they somehow ended up in Asshai and beyond? (A little bit of an overreach, I know.) Anyway, I never had any problem believing that the eggs truly came from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai and I do not have a problem believing they came from Dragonstone either. In fact, let's say that:

Illyrio had some of Aerys II's dragon eggs via Varys, to either give them to Aegon or to make any other use of them;

Illyrio did not believe the eggs could be hatched, so those were just pretty yet priceless stones to him;

Illyrio brokered a marriage of Aerys II's daughter to a very important horselord and needed a proper wedding gift for such occasion;

Illyrio might have thought that for Daenerys whom he liked well enough it would be becoming to have her father's dragon eggs even though she could not be told this because the connection to Varys was secret.

 

3 hours ago, DigUpHerBones said:

if the theory out there proves to be true that Euron used a dragon egg as payment to the FM for King Balon's contract, precedence has been set for how valuable these things are. (pretty big jump without much evidence to support, but this theory is well known)

a kings life = 1 egg

The business with the Faceless Men is more about the subjective value that the treasure represents to the holder who is about to give it up. According to what the Kindly man/Waif say to Arya, I believe the FM would not accept just money from a rich man (like Euron) as a payment for a murder, he would have to sacrifice something really precious to Him of Many Faces. Thus we cannot make an equation like that or quantify an egg's value based on this example. A dragon egg is basically priceless, but what if Illyrio did not buy them but have received them by other means - as a gift, or by force (via a proxy)...

 

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

From the earlier version of the chapter we know that Illyrio and Haldon originally talked about 'the sword' so there is a good chance that Blackfyre is also in one of those chests. 

This is interesting, I did not know about the earlier version, but as you put it, I think it is definitely possible that the chests hold (a) dragon egg(s) as well as Blackfyre.

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35 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

This is a good observation. Tyrion was ordered to write down everything he knew about dragons, which is quite a bit, although I guess not enough. Illyrio was also acquiring literature about dragonlore before, but Tyrion notices the books were nothing special.

Where do you think the alleged Euron's egg comes from?

I always thought that was a clever way to keep Tyrion occupied and out of the way. I doubt they took much stock in anything he wrote down.

Euron is tricky he's been so many places it would be difficult to tell where he obtained the egg (if he even had one)

 

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2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Rhaenyra Targ took three eggs to the Vale during the Dance, whereabouts unknown.

From one of those eggs might have hatched Rhaena's dragon, Morning. But we don't know that as of yet. She already had an egg when the other three were given to her, I think.

2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

The last dragon laid five eggs before she died during the reign of A III. The dragon was small and sickly, but Ser Arlen described the eggs as "hard as stone, but beautiful." So the eggs do not need to be all that old to appear petrified. The egg's whereabouts are unknown.

That is an important point also backed by Dunk's description of the Butterwell egg in TMK. That is described essentially the same way as Dany's eggs are, who are supposedly so old that time turned them to stone.

But then, perhaps only a few people know in the days of Aerys II and Robert how fresh dragon eggs looked like. They would have to consult ancient books in the hope of finding correct descriptions of such eggs. Perhaps they just came to believe that the eggs they found had to be very old because they felt like stone, not realizing that all dragon eggs are this way.

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

This is a good observation. Tyrion was ordered to write down everything he knew about dragons, which is quite a bit, although I guess not enough. Illyrio was also acquiring literature about dragonlore before, but Tyrion notices the books were nothing special.

Illyrio and Varys both have every opportunity to learn everything they want about the Targaryen belief in a prophecy that the dragons will return one day as well as the prophecy of the promised prince. Varys would have known what Rhaegar believed his son was destined to do.

It would surprise if they did not expect the dragons to come back at one point. Varys knows that magic works, after all.

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

Where do you think the alleged Euron's egg comes from?

I've no idea. I actually don't buy that he ever had one, just as I don't buy that he traveled to Valyria. But I begin to wonder whether Quellon Greyjoy's mother might have been a Targaryen or a Blackfyre

26 minutes ago, Jenny of Dorne said:

This is interesting, I did not know about the earlier version, but as you put it, I think it is definitely possible that the chests hold (a) dragon egg(s) as well as Blackfyre.

.Things could even be somewhat more convoluted. Blackfyre itself might also have been stolen by Varys. Keep in mind that we learned in TWoIaF that Haegon Blackfyre 'gave up his sword' before he was killed. That should have been Blackfyre which means the Targaryens might have recovered the sword of the kings. Even if they didn't get it back from Haegon Dunk slew Daemon III in battle, and later on Barristan Selmy killed Maelys on the Stepstones. That makes three Blackfyre pretenders being killed by Targaryen loyalists. Now, it is very likely that somebody on the Blackfyre was always able to run away with Blackfyre in the last moment, especially not during the Third Rebellion when both Haegon and Bittersteel were captured.

That could mean Blackfyre was in Aerys II's possession during the Sack, and Varys stole it just as he stole the dragon eggs. If that's going to be Blackfyre back story it would help Aegon's case. After all, if Blackfyre had last been the weapon of the Blackfyre pretenders he wouldn't look all that much like Rhaegar's son if he suddenly had it.

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On 1/29/2017 at 8:43 AM, DigUpHerBones said:

a kings life = 1 egg
i just cannot see a simple gold for eggs transaction.

Balon was not much of a king, so the eggs are not worth all that much. 

23 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Where do you think the alleged Euron's egg comes from?

A dragon laid it sometime in the past 

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