[SPOILERS] Black Sails Season 4: All that glitters is not Silver

[red snow]

Thanks for the sailing speed details! Yeah, I have no problem at all with when (and if) historical characters should die in the show (much like "rome") but I do think Max and Silver should be writing self-help books on how anyone can become a CEO within a year.

It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show - it just seems a little incredible. The passing of time isn't really a key factor and clearly little attention has been drawn to it over the seasons. It's not like it's "24" where someone enrolling on a training course and completing it would be incongruous.

[Corvinus85]

3 minutes ago, red snow said:

Thanks for the sailing speed details! Yeah, I have no problem at all with when (and if) historical characters should die in the show (much like "rome") but I do think Max and Silver should be writing self-help books on how anyone can become a CEO within a year.

It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the show - it just seems a little incredible. The passing of time isn't really a key factor and clearly little attention has been drawn to it over the seasons. It's not like it's "24" where someone enrolling on a training course and completing it would be incongruous.

While in terms of the timeline, Silver's and Max's success stretch belief, the events that led them to that success were clearly presented in the show.

[Zorral]

As sweetsunray explains, the Gulf Stream was indeed the super highway to Europe, in the south. But it also created a churn of winds and currents that made it very long and difficult to sail north from Gulf and the Caribbean to the New England colonies.  Cape Fear (headland of North Carolina jutting into the Atlantic) is named that for more than authentic and sufficient naval reasons!  Pirates used the location from which to plunder -- see the Battle of Cape Fear River (1718).

This also explains why so few slave ships went to the North American colonies directely from Africa.  The Caribbean sugar islands were closer in time and distance (though, additionally, the sugar baronies had the goods for the Triangle Trade, and also cash to pay for slaves, which the North Americans in Virginia did not).

But it's very difficult for someone like me to discard my knowledge of the historical Savannah for the necessary suspension of disbelief.  Gar, I shall have to employ Methods!

 

 

 

[sweetsunray]

25 minutes ago, Zorral said:

As sweetsunray explains, the Gulf Stream was indeed the super highway to Europe, in the south. But it also created a churn of winds and currents that made it very long and difficult to sail north from Gulf and the Caribbean to the New England colonies.  Cape Fear (headland of North Carolina jutting into the Atlantic) is named that for more than authentic and sufficient naval reasons!  Pirates used the location from which to plunder -- see the Battle of Cape Fear River (1718).

This also explains why so few slave ships went to the North American colonies directely from Africa.  The Caribbean sugar islands were closer in time and distance (though, additionally, the sugar baronies had the goods for the Triangle Trade, and also cash to pay for slaves, which the North Americans in Virginia did not).

But it's very difficult for someone like me to discard my knowledge of the historical Savannah for the necessary suspension of disbelief.  Gar, I shall have to employ Methods!

Yes, the whalers' trick ontheir way to the Americas was first to seek out the Gulf Stream by measuring the temperature of the seawater and watching out for kelp. Then they would cross the Gulf Stream southwards, until they were just south of the Gulf Stream, turned westward and the winds would carry them to Bermuda. The Azores-Caribbean route took about 3 months, especially since the English first had to sail east and south to North Africa to catch the westward wind. The route the whalers used could be done in 50 days, less than 2 months. So,they saved over a month of voyage that way. But it was still very slow in comparison to from the Americas to England. The route though was not published until 1770 by Benjamin Franklin and for decades after merchants still stubbornly took the Azores route.

Well, perhaps in Black Sails Savannah ends up being the name of a plantation led by a reformist Mr. Ashton or something. Start small? There is a shot in the alternative Rise of Silver trailer of what looks to be a launch or longboat going up the Hudson River. So, pretty sure someone is going there. We might see Thomas and Abigail there.

They "fudge".

[sweetsunray]

37 minutes ago, red snow said:

I do think Max and Silver should be writing self-help books on how anyone can become a CEO within a year.

Well, circumstances helped. Max likely would not have succeeded if Hume had not appeared to arrest Richard Guthrie and publically announced this fact in Nassau to force Eleanor to stop their company.

I have a theory that Woodes Rogers has been an off-screen character since S1. Hume was only interested in Richard and Flint, but not in Vane or Blackbeard at Ocracoke. The Guthries were the economical power, Flint the strategist. Someone wanted to cripple Nassau before going there with a naval fleet. Richard had always believed that if England ever returned the Proprietors would name him governor. He had bribed them. But that's clearly not happening anymore. And then there's the fact that both Bryson and Hume had Boston as their home port. Those two men miight have served different institutions, but they knew each other. So, first Hume arrives at New Harbor to arrest Richard and coincidentally find Flint there as well, and just a few days later Bryson shows up claiming he saw Hume's ship but avoided him (as if!). Bryson demands to see Richard, speaks with Richard privately, and then all of a sudden Bryson managed to send a message to Hume, etc.

Nothing of that was coincidence imo. Lords Proprietor had already agreed to make Woodes Rogers the governor, because he was the man with the plan. But he had to assuage the Boston Guthries, giving them assurances that he'd offer a pardon to Richard after the arrest and intended to do the same for Flint. But everything's fucked up. Richard dies. Rackham gets the gold. Miranda gets killed and Flint put on trial. And Woodes Rogers ends up being given the wild daughter who's more a pirate than a civilised lady. I think Rogers even had the power to decide whether she had to suffer a trial or not. I think he had the power to offer her a pardon before any trial, but decided not to, because she was a wild card. And then he ends up ensnared in his own trap.

Anyhow, without the crumbling of the Guthrie empire and the capture of the Urca gold, Max would not have been able to succeed.

[Zorral]

sweetsunray -- this isn't exactly on topic, but it is contextual -- have you read any of the studies that focus on the New England colonies' naval-mercantile commercial relationships with the southern colonies in the Atlantic, Gulf and Caribbean?  And not only with those that were English colonies, but particularly with San Domingue and other of the French colonies too?  It's fascinating history and enlightening as to the founding fortunes of New England.  Of course the southern colonies even then didn't participate in the this other than slaves, exporting and importing, as they often were already importing so much from the nothern colonies as they produced nothing but the cash crop and slaves.  And even then didn't build ships or participate in the carrying trade, that made New Englanders and New Yorkers so wealthy.

I only bring this up as you seem someone who would find this of interest generally.  It goes well with the fishing and whaling trades too, as practiced by New Englanders. They went everywhere -- were global! -- long before Independence raised its head. And those sailors of whalers and carrying trade played a huge role in Sam Adams's cells in Boston and in other cities to riot on command and intimidate and / or punish those who were not in favor of this radical movement.

 

[red snow]

I'm caught up and already feel like the remaining episodes would have to be pretty bad for this season not to be better than 3.

The directing in episode 3 and 4 were great. The chase scene in ep 4 was really cinematic and the way they filmed the below deck fights was absolutely brutal. Some of these directors may well be worth keeping an eye on.

The possibility that Hamilton is alive (which if i recall was always a hooded man at the hanging?) really does turn events on its head and could spell even greater trajedy for Flint. Although I find it hard to believe that someone as idealistic as Hamilton would have given up - surely he must be under house arrest in Florida? Otherwise Flint may feel betrayed by the man he's devoted a cause to.

I have to admit I was confused that Rackham and co were on the war galley with Rogers but being on the sloop makes obvious sense. I agree with others that Teach and Rackham's capture did feel forced in order to give us a good scene later but Teach was probably overconfident and I guess Teach's men would have thrown Rackham overboard if he hadn't surrendered in the hope of saving their captain.

Somewhat more silly for me was the "plan" of standing in front of a bunch of armed british soldiers and simply hoping you wouldn't get hit. That seemed to be Silver and Flint's plan which seemed a bit off for both of them.

No idea why Flint surrendered. I'm not sure why he'd trust Guthrie at all after what happened with Vane - surely this could just be a way of buying time? I hope it doesn't mean they are finding a way of Flint being captured without being beat as it would be shit if he spends the rest of the season as a prisoner. No doubt he does have other plans and it may be this very thing that leads to Silver and him being at odds. I think I probably need to rewatch their conversations in this episode as I think that had a lot to do with Flint's choice. If he got some inkling Hamilton may be alive and that Silver will inevitably be a threat he can't overcome he may well have just thrown his lot in with Guthrie and co. That would make for a serious change.

 

[sweetsunray]

4 hours ago, red snow said:

No idea why Flint surrendered. I'm not sure why he'd trust Guthrie at all after what happened with Vane - surely this could just be a way of buying time? I hope it doesn't mean they are finding a way of Flint being captured without being beat as it would be shit if he spends the rest of the season as a prisoner. No doubt he does have other plans and it may be this very thing that leads to Silver and him being at odds. I think I probably need to rewatch their conversations in this episode as I think that had a lot to do with Flint's choice. If he got some inkling Hamilton may be alive and that Silver will inevitably be a threat he can't overcome he may well have just thrown his lot in with Guthrie and co. That would make for a serious change.

Flint knows Eleanor pretty well, in a far more objective manner than Max or Vane ever did.

Max and Vane wanted something emotional from her, wanted to see their match in her, and therefore wrongly assumed she had the same goals than them. Eleanor told Max early on in S1 how proud she was about Nassau being more than a beach with tents, saying stuff about sewage, commerce. She shows concern about Mr. Noonan allowing one of his whores to be beaten by a customer and puts her foot down when Charles Vane begins to punish citizens. And raping Max was personal for her, and for Vane. So, early on Eleanor reveals snippets that improving living circumstances in Nassau is her higher goal, beyond profit.

Max is more interested initially in self-enrichment and having power over other people. And she projects this onto Eleanor. 

Vane is all about freedom, the lion without a den, and strength. And that is the sole aspect he hones into with Eleanor. He sees himself in Eleanor, but ignores any signs, actions, choices and words of her when she's upset and emotional (she pretty much impulsively wears her heart on her sleeve) that disagree with this opium vision of her. He fails to recognize who Eleanor truly is, nor allows her to be who she is without punishment, because if he would recognize she values other things than him, he'd have to admit they're not a match. 

Anyway, while Vane and Max grow, with Max growing to care for Nassau being harmonial and Vane able to put his differences aside with Flint and stand up for his personal value of freedom for pirates to do as they please, they never truly become objective commentators on Eleanor's values, motivations and emotions. To do so would force them to admit to themselves it would never have worked out, that they weren't the right person for her. And that hurts tremendously. It's easier for them to blame her, trying to make her see "their truth" about her. Even Charles Vane's S3 comment that Eleanor is on deck of the Delicia to anger him and force him into making a mistake is pitiful obsessive. Just earlier, Woodes was all careful about news in relation to Vane, but she wasn't even thinking about Vane in the fort, but how him hiring her might undermine him.

Flint on the other hand has a far more objective view on her. He knows she wears her heart on her sleeve. If Eleanor is emotional, she's truthful. He definitely sees an emotional woman beneath the fort. The apparent issue is that what she says she wants in this emotional state a) contradicts her long-term value of Nassau's progress or safety (at least from her POV) b ) contradicts what Woodes is hellbent on keeping. But he has Miranda's actions in S1 to compare it with and he likely suspects and deducts a young, newlywed woman might have a bigger weakness than Woodes - oncoming motherhood.

And by accepting the deal the results can only be positive for him.

1. the deal works and Flint won't have to face off Woodes anymore. If Woodes is willing to give up Nassau for the cache and his wife, then it's unlikely another Englishman will step up to the plate anytime soon.
2. the deal concocted without Woodes' knowledge backfires and drives a wedge between Eleanor-Woodes. If their team breaks up, Woodes is a weaker strategist.
3. Silver backs Flint up and that would alienate Billy and likely Israel Hands.
4. Any discussions and fighting outside the fort between any of the pirates would be about Flint. He makes himself the topic of discussion, instead of Silver.
5. Without the cache, the pirates would have to hunt, and start hunting small, and thus require order and leadership

Meanwhile, he has never betrayed Eleanor and she told Woodes enough about him that shows she believed they could all align. Flint knows he's perhaps the least likely man she'd want to kill personally.

Not taking the deal would result in

1. Silver being the commander, because he said no
2. More loss of life on pirate side and flight
3. Risks Woodes being able to claim he truly won Nassau by might, and pirates recognize battle victory and might far more than an extended hand
4. Giving Eleanor no other option than to back Woodes and shoot on Nassau from the fort
5. Pirates refusing to hunt or rebuild anything, because they're rich.

[red snow]

Good analysis and fair points but there's still the fact he's placed himself as the hostage if any of these things go wrong. Flint's been known to have suicidal tendencies so he may well be gambling hard with this move.

I think the big flaw in all those listed pros is the con that the other pirates a) want a fight b ) don't particularly care too much about Flint and c) want their share of the treasure. None of those might result in anything worse than Flint's imprisonment and in a sense there will now be a race to the treasure because if they decide not to hand it over, they certainly have to change its location as Flint could send some of Eleanor's men to get it.

At this stage though any deal to get Nassau seems temporary. Even if Woodes decided to cave in, the British would just send someone else.

Given the ropey timeline in the show - if Flint does survive all this I'd love there to be some kind of hint that he was part of the movement for American independence. It would fit perfectly with his goal of showing the world the English were weak and give him an overall victory even if he didn't win Nassau. Realistically it would have to be a child or someone who listened to his ranting though.

[Martell Spy]

Quote

Given the ropey timeline in the show - if Flint does survive all this I'd love there to be some kind of hint that he was part of the movement for American independence. It would fit perfectly with his goal of showing the world the English were weak and give him an overall victory even if he didn't win Nassau. Realistically it would have to be a child or someone who listened to his ranting though.

Well, there was a line Flint said a couple episodes that sort of hinted at that. And I don't think there'd have to be a child or someone who listened to him either for it to play out that way. The American revolution helped inspire the French revolution, so a similar thing could be going on. 

I don't know how things play out historically in Nassau. I purposely have avoided going to wikapedia about it. I have figured it goes badly for the pirates. But even if things fail it could help inspire the American Revolution. 

I love how unpredictable this show is though and how twisty the alliances are, how they change. It never feels contrived which is something that can happen with even some very good shows. Lost for example had that problem. I do think Hands talk to Flint about how vulnerable he is in the current situation with Silver may have influenced Flint's gambit.

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

Well, there was a line Flint said a couple episodes that sort of hinted at that.

And Madi replied with a Don Quixote quote.

As for American Independence, we're talking about 50 years difference. And as I understand it, the AI was mostly inspired by the judicial system that England enforced in the colonies.

Piracy was a particular crime related to crimes at sea and not until the 18th century did England even allow colonies to judge these crimes. While colonies had civil courts, they did not have the legal right to set up a criminal court for crimes like piracy. The captured pirates had to be sent to England. Instead of wasting their time on such expense, pirates were simply set free again, and the problem increased. So by 1700 or 1701 (partly in response to pirates like Avery), Whitehall set up Vice Admiral Courts in the colonies. These were courts of several professional judges, without a civil jury (example Flint's trial at Charleston in S2, same thing but fast paced int he tavern trials in S4). Only in London pirates could still have a trial with a jury. Vice Admiral Courts and its lack of jury and professional English judges with no attachment to the colony whatsoever are partly the reason of the uprising against England by the American colonies.

When Featherstone claims a jury was set up for Vane's trial, we have a total inaccurate statement. A jury judging Charles Vane would have been illegal in any colony. That's not even an error against historical timing of 1740 versus 1715.If there was a jury at Vane's trial that was illegal.

So, the irony is that the cry for independence was partially born not by pirates, but by colonies wanting the legal rights to use a jury system to condemn them.

______

Meanwhile some people probably were surprised at Woodes being able to remarry after being divorced, and assume this is an invented anomaly. Well, it's historically inaccurate that Rogers divorced Sarah officially, let alone remarried (he was however in practice separated from Sarah since 1713), but surprisingly it's not a legal anomaly. In England divorces and annullments were only granted by the Church Council of the English Church. There could be several reasons for divorce, but one could not remarry, unless it was a divorce granted for adultery, and then only the innocent partner had the right to remarry. The adulterer had no right to it. People who had their marriages annulled could both remarry, but their children would become non-citizen bastards.

However, in the colonies divorce was not a matter decided on by the Church, but civil courts. Massachusetts Bay civil court for example granted a divorce in 1639 already. In general the Northern colonies were more liberal minded about divorce, would even grant it for "want of mutual affection", and allowed both partners to remarry. The Southern colonies were more restrictive about it.

So, it's theoretically completely possible for Woodes to have empowered Judge Adamas to decree a divorce with the right to remarry based on him having been separated for years from Sarah and there being no possibility of reconciliation in a colony, while the Church Council in England would never have granted him the right to remarry.

[Zorral]

6 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

And as I understand it, the AI was mostly inspired by the judicial system that England enforced in the colonies.

Not so.  This is proven by the facts that the judicial system by and large remained exactly the same after Independence, and with the Constitution, later.

It's in Constitution that the principle difference judicially is found -- slavery, and overt protection for it, is included in the Constitution, which it was  not in England. One terrific discussion of this can be found in Slavery's Constitution: From Revolution to Ratification, by the wonderful historian, David Waldstreicker. 

Thus with the Someset Case (1772) English law effectively said that there was no slavery in England (as opposed to the colonies, where of course slavery was still legal -- but the English people did not want slaves and slavery at home).

This ruling terrified the southern states, particularly Virginia, whose aristocracy was already living at least to a degree on slave breeding and export of same to the newer territories.  Their Assembly and publications were filled with terrified warnings that very soon now, England will rule the same for these colonies!

This fear, along with the New Englanders' frustration of being denied legal title to western lands because the Brits were protecting their very profitable fur trade, were the big drivers of the war of independence.

Specifically because British law and institutions, with the exception of slavery, primogeniture and state Church, were retained after the war, the preferred term for it is the War of Independence, i.e. it wasn't a revolution because most things did not change including the power elite.

The real revolution was the War of the Rebellion because that upended the slave economy, the slave society's legal  and political systems -- at least on paper.

 

[sweetsunray]

Well, I was wrong by using "mostly". I wanted to say "partially". There were a combination of reasons, no? That there were no representatives of the colonies in Whitehall, tax laws, growing ideas of enlightenment (mostly for white males of property), the right to settle west of the Appalachians (the Indian reserve), the right to keep slaves in the South ... By the time of WI Vice Admiral Courts had less to do with pirates, but they were created at the start of the 18th century for this, and had a bad rep... At least one was attacked in Massachusetts Bay, no? After all Vice Admiral Courts were one those elements that denied full judidical independence in a colony.

[Astromech]

Interesting article concerning the accuracy of Black Sails and the pirate genre generally. The article was written during season 3. https://csphistorical.com/2016/02/07/editorial-black-sails-historical-accuracy-and-the-pirate-genre-in-hollywood/

[sweetsunray]

10 hours ago, Astromech said:

Interesting article concerning the accuracy of Black Sails and the pirate genre generally. The article was written during season 3. https://csphistorical.com/2016/02/07/editorial-black-sails-historical-accuracy-and-the-pirate-genre-in-hollywood/

Thanks for the link. One of the things I greatly appreciate about the show is how they portray the pirates (and citizens) as morally ambiguous. Nor do they skirt slave issues of that time. A character or a society is typically "burned" when they are involved in keeping slaves in a modern audience's view, enough we don't blink an eye at such people being slaughtered. They used this "burned" in the S2 finale in Charleston. But then when Flint & co arrive at the Underhill plantation, they still include a lingering sympathetic shot on Mrs. Underhill and her daughter. And I noticed the first response to Mr. Berringer's claim that the whole Underhill family was murdered (by Billy's army) was one of disbelief, that he must be lying.

And yes, while they clearly used sexploitation in the first three episodes of S1 to garner an adult audience, they shifted more and more to mature content, nor are they afraid of making their characters commit actions that might anger fans of another character (Woodes keelhauling BB, Eleanor hanging Vane) and yet still persist in giving them a sympathetic storyline as if they are not a "burned" character in the fan minds. It's mature character writing and they my hat off for sticking to it, rather than pleasing fans of a certain character for revenge. In that way I don't think they're just doing something unique for pirate fiction, but for televized storytelling in general. But the pirate genre is perhaps the most daring genre to do it with, exactly because the "good pirate" myth has been so prevalent in any previous pirate depiction. A large section of the show's fans easily forgive the pirates their crimes, and cry "foul" when a citizen takes extreme measures to protect citizens from the pirates. And the writers use this almost to do the unexpected in these fans' eyes.

Hehe, anyway, looking forward to this Sunday's episode  

[Pliskin]

Unfortunately, as mature the show writing can be, the audience often does not follow. It saddens me to read on the Internet the hatred for Eleanor for example. The moment she accepted to work against the pirates, she was indeed "burned" as the evil character, while, clearly, she's no worse than the pirates.

The greatness of the show is indeed that it makes us care for both sides. I'm honestly not sure who I root for the most, Rogers or Flint. The scene where they both talk about Hamilton's project and how Rogers actually fulfilled it was the moment the show got me the most, because it highlighted the tragedy of Flint's character.

But when I read the Internet about this show, I feel like it's not the same show I'm watching, but some other Pirates of the Caribean without Jack Sparrow, where the pirates are perfect honourable good guys fighting the Evil Crown and its evil minions who need to be taken down.

[red snow]

10 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Unfortunately, as mature the show writing can be, the audience often does not follow. It saddens me to read on the Internet the hatred for Eleanor for example. The moment she accepted to work against the pirates, she was indeed "burned" as the evil character, while, clearly, she's no worse than the pirates.

The greatness of the show is indeed that it makes us care for both sides. I'm honestly not sure who I root for the most, Rogers or Flint. The scene where they both talk about Hamilton's project and how Rogers actually fulfilled it was the moment the show got me the most, because it highlighted the tragedy of Flint's character.

But when I read the Internet about this show, I feel like it's not the same show I'm watching, but some other Pirates of the Caribean without Jack Sparrow, where the pirates are perfect honourable good guys fighting the Evil Crown and its evil minions who need to be taken down.

To be fair the writing of the show still sets Eleanor up as more of a villain simply because she's the antagonist of Flint, Silver, Vane and the pirates who are the leads of the show. What the show does a good job of is presenting why Eleanor, Rogers and co are doing what they are doing but the viewer still tends to go for the warped reality of siding with the pirates. I think the new season has done a great job of showing us the reality which Max is perceiving - that both factions are committing atrocities.

I'm not a huge fan of Eleanor's character but I admit that it's all down to the writers intentionally wanting her to act and be perceived that way. Someone mentioned upthread how this show is good at throwing out surprises yet when you think about it, it actually makes sense based on the characters involved.

[sweetsunray]

4 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Unfortunately, as mature the show writing can be, the audience often does not follow. It saddens me to read on the Internet the hatred for Eleanor for example. The moment she accepted to work against the pirates, she was indeed "burned" as the evil character, while, clearly, she's no worse than the pirates.

The greatness of the show is indeed that it makes us care for both sides. I'm honestly not sure who I root for the most, Rogers or Flint. The scene where they both talk about Hamilton's project and how Rogers actually fulfilled it was the moment the show got me the most, because it highlighted the tragedy of Flint's character.

But when I read the Internet about this show, I feel like it's not the same show I'm watching, but some other Pirates of the Caribean without Jack Sparrow, where the pirates are perfect honourable good guys fighting the Evil Crown and its evil minions who need to be taken down.

Yes... maybe aSoIaF fans are more readily able to appreciate the greyness? For me the hanging of Charles Vane and Eleanor's love story with Rogers was one of the gutsy storytelling to me. That gave me enough confidence that the writers were intent on telling the story they had envisioned and weren't writing for fans. It actually made me like Eleanor, less wishy-washy, more grown up. She had gone through an arc and grew from it. I liked Vane up to a level, but he was mostly written as a catalysator, a challenge to overcome by either Flint or Eleanor. 

I do tend to have a sympathy for the female characters. There aren't many shows where women, including supporting female characters such as Anne, Madi or Max get their own unique characterization or storyline and at times at odds with the male they are paired with. I hope they all survive, though I'm starting to be more and more uncomfortable about Eleanor's fate. Where Vane's death propelled the story beyond pirate vs English antics (where the rebels always come out of it alive) and into this will have consqequences, I can see Eleanor's death in 4x06-4x07 propel the pirate-English war into total end-game, and Woodes into a Flint-arc ending any pirate shenanigans for good. Although the same can be done, if say Silver has Eleanor disappear to "Savannah". 

And I agree about the Rogers-Flint moment. Flint's demand was asking the impossible imo. The fact that Woodes was given governorship with the pardons showed that a change had occurred, and that Woodes was a progressive Englishman willing to start off expanding Nassau from its existing melting pot situation. Certainly for the era that is progressive. Ashe's personal cover-up and Thomas's father aren't Woodes' fault. But Flint couldn't see beyond his revenge and being the King of the Island. The broken tea-cup and overrun home of Miranda in 4x01 was a good illustration what the consequences of his choice were, that and the 4x04 total mayhem. Nassau and New Providence has become the island the villains in Shakespear's Tempest dream of: island of knaves and whores without commerce and even farming.

So, aside from rooting for the women, I also root for a Nassau as Eleanor and Max dreamed it could be like, which used to be Flint's dream too.

ETA: the Black Sails wikia is btw imo horribly biased in the manner you describe. They insert purely their own interpretation of Eleanor and Max in there, ignoring interviews by the writers and actors about S3 and S4, ignoring crucial scenes that reveal these character's true feelings and thoughts (you know when Eleanor speaks to an unconscious Woodes who can't hear her). I'd expect a wikia to remain factual and consider all available evidence, isntead of stating an admin's biased opinion. And one of the best reviewers on Youtube who appreciates characterization is DWJacques.

[Zorral]

To acquire the full history of piracy, slavery, revolution within this era, these make up a magnificent trilogy of books by a great historian, Marcus Rediker, Villains of All Nations: Atlantic Pirates in the Golden Age, The Slave Ship: A Human History, and the book he co-wrote with Peter Linebaugh, The Many-Headed Hydra: Sailors, Slaves, Commoners, and the Hidden History of the Revolutionary Atlantic.

I've mentioned these books in the Blacks Sails topic previously, but maybe two years ago by now?

[sweetsunray]

2 hours ago, red snow said:

To be fair the writing of the show still sets Eleanor up as more of a villain simply because she's the antagonist of Flint, Silver, Vane and the pirates who are the leads of the show.

Vane wasn't a lead character. He was the antagonist throughout S1 for both Flint and Eleanor. And early S3 Vane floundered as a character while he was an ally to Flint and Eleanor wasn't there. His character returns to strength once more, when he can antagonize Eleanor again. And the sole way his character could have an impact beyond that storyline to Eleanor was to hang him.

Hannah New has been the lead actress since S1, while Toby Stephens has been the lead actor. And if you look at the stortylines it becomes clear that you have two storylines that are supported by other characters: Flint's and Eleanor's. So, I disagree they set her up as the villain. Instead they set her up as the pirates' "scapegoat" until in 4x02 they shifted it to Max becoming the scapegoat, with Anne voicing anger towards Max, Max trying to capture Silver, Billy actually telling he wants to use her as a classic cathartic scapegoat sacrifice (not unlike the pirates did with Eleanor at the end of S2 and start of S3 with the theater and feasting her expected hanging). In fact, the writers both in interviews and in representation very much defend Eleanor, including her choice to hang Vane. They themselves say - he killed her father, what do you expect she would do? Even the way scenes are shot with her, she's often bathing in light, in even the darkest places (such as the ending 4x04 scene), and it's no coincidence they have her wear a butterfly pendant for a necklace. The ancient greek word for butterfly is Psyche, which means "soul". 

We have almost everything adapted into Eleanor's story of this legend: father offering her to a "beast", taken away on the westwind to her future husband in a funeral dress, a feast about her hanging (now we are saved), an affair with a man who shouldn't fall in love with her (Cupid was sent by Venus to make Psyche fall in love with a monster, but falls in love himself), the large mirror in Woodes' office has a Cupid figurine often featured in romantic scenes, killing the "beast", wounded and feverish uncosncious Cupid, a marriage, a child coming, making a deal in the underworld to retrieve and acquire a deadly box, together with Max who is a major cause of her downfall in S2.

In other words, the writers regard Eleanor as the soul of Nassau, the restorer of love and harmony, if she can be forgiven, a flawed human who acquires a higher soul. At the very least we saw Eleanor heal Max's emotional wounds in 4x04 (see Orual, Psyche's sister who envies Cupid having the company of Psyche and is greatly the cause of Psyche's mysery, in the 20th century adaptation Until We Have Faces by C.S. Lewis).