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[SPOILERS] Black Sails Season 4: All that glitters is not Silver


GallowKnight

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6 hours ago, Zorral said:

Musketeers and Peaky Blinders are like that.  So was Ripper Street.  Orphan Black is great in terms of Maslany's tour de force of creating so many very different, identifiable characters who are all clones of each other, but the plotting sometimes is flawed.

Like Black Sails, Orphan Black and Musketeers, too, wisely planned to have a set of seasons and then quit when the story is finished.

I have no idea if they plan to do the same with Peaky Blinders -- it would be good if they do.

Outlander will be milked for as long as can be, probably -- especially since it has a novel series to rely on -- but the novels got progressively ridiculous and boring as it went on.

The Last Kingdom?

And Ripper Street is finished, whether it wanted to be or not.

 

 

I've seen S1 of Peaky Blinders. Yes, I liked that. And at least S2 interest me, but yes, it would be good if that has only 3, 4 seasons max. And I saw the last 1.5 season of Ripper Street (with the actor who plays Benjen Stark) on BBC Entertaintment over Christmas period. Both seemed my taste.

I watched some episodes of Musketeers, but somehow couldn't get into it.

Nothing against period drama or period romance at all, but Outlander isn't my thing much. I prefer Poldark instead (so far). I'm just not fond of time-traveling, especially in that way much, or the repetitive life-peril, but by the end of the episode or the next they're safe again. No matter how I'm still sore over Eleanor's death, it's honest. Yes, she was saved a few times, but albeit in completely different situations and with different people in completely different arcs. There's variety in it. Vane protected her from Ned Low. She saved Abigail from the fort. Woodes saved her from being hanged and Blackbeard. She saved herself and others against the pirates (including Max). But she couldn't save herself (and Madi) from that creepy as fuck, stealthy Spaniard, and Max chose not to risk saving her after all when she had a chance to get on a ship. Although I can see that for its aim, the acting and the emotionality (of the story) and production is good. Just not my cup of tea.

I should try Last Kingdom yes.

12 hours ago, red snow said:

Much like how Deadwood and Rome had me following various actors' work afterwards I'll be trying to keep an eye out for what some of them do next.

Yes, me too. Rome didn't get to properly round it off. They probably intended to do 3 seasons, rather than 2, and I suspect it was intended to be some sort of prequel to I Claudius. Aside from Ciaran, Purefoy, and Stevenson, Tobias stood out for me as the tragic Brutus. But yeah, Rome didn't really became known until after it was canceled, but it was part of the forerunning productions that revolutionized TV series. It paved the way for high production TV series with full season storylines of multiple characters. They pushed storytelling TV into the forefront, rather than "we have Robin Hood busting up some bad knights every episode" (so, it's ok if you missed an epi). Before that storytelling TV rather than episode TV, storytelling was only done in min-series.

I have no doubt really that Black Sails will get its recognition, after it's completed, and sets the bar higher for TV storytelling. The first episodes in S1 is hard to get into, and many viewers I think weren't entirely sure what the writer intention was, especially since "pirates" are tied to certain mythical TV expectations.

BTW I recently read an interview with the writers where they said that they interpreted the "prequel to Treasure Island" concept like "Treasure Island was a fictional tale based on what went down in Black Sails", and thus Black Sails is a faux-history pretending to be the true story on which a spruced-up later Treasure Island is based. They sort of treat "historical facts" about the historical pirates and pirate hunters in the same way. That the facts are cleaned up versions of what really went down. The Blackbeard keelhauling fits that scheme: as in Maynard exaggerated the number of wounds and left out the actual reason why he needed to dump his body. 

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There's so much still to happen in this show. The last episodes will have to cover a lot of ground.

What kind of an ending are we expecting here? Everybody loses? Is there even a slight chance for a happy ending for Rackham? Sounds very possible story wise that they'll hang him, and Anne will simply disappear as in history. Hope they'll do something else as he's pretty much the only major character in the show I can still root for. 

I don't see him killing Flint. Perhaps someone else will, or perhaps they'll "kill" Flint, as they did with this mentor, by sending him to be invisible somewhere. I don't see Flint agreeing to it though.

For me, the last episodes really have given the impression that they're building up Rackham for an impactful/tragic death, though.

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Of course Madi's alive ! So are we to assume Billy is the one who dragged her off the burning house ? (or maybe I missed when they confirmed it). Also quite curious to see that whole dynamic between Woodes and Billy evolve ! Could make for some interesting stuff ! 

Jack's definitly sailing to his death... that truly felt like Jack and Anne's final scene together, and the more the show goes on, the more I believe Anne will leave the story alive, maybe with Max. They may end up the pioneers of the new Nassau if they manage to work with grandma Guthrie without screwing it up. By the way, amazing grandma ! The actress was truly great, she has that commandment, that sharpeness in her voice, her attitude and I loved her whole exchange with Max ! 

And now everyone will be after Flint, hehe... I really wonder when (if) Thomas Hamilton will be brought back into the game. If he's truly alive in exile, he may be (as many have pointed before) the end of Flint, or what finally breaks his desire for this war and make him sail into the sunset... and if it happens relatively quickly (not in the last episode at least), it could once again change the power landscape for Nassau, maybe one last time in a glorious serie of delightful betrayals, shifting allegiances and conflicts of interests... but yeah, I feel that if Thomas ever shows up again, it will be at the very end, so we may not get to see a Nassau without Flint fighting for her, having abandoned her...

Again, a tremendous episode. No major death, no big action setpiece, but the show doesnt need that to be wonderful ! 

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1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

I was a bit surprised when Jack referenced Israel Hands. Did he ever meet him? As far as I remember, Jack was never really in Nassau after Israel was introduced.

Which scene was that? But he probably did meet him, because last episode Flint and Silver met up with him south of the island, and then Flint took the Walrus do the other island, and Jack went north.

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1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

I was a bit surprised when Jack referenced Israel Hands. Did he ever meet him? As far as I remember, Jack was never really in Nassau after Israel was introduced.

Israel Hands was once Teach's second man that he ditched for Vane, and Rackham followed Vane like a puppy dog, so yes he knows who Hands is. And since Flint, Silver and Rackham had a meeting and helped onto the Walrus and Rogers' sloop with launches, Jack knows Israel Hands is with Silver.

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This was a "slow" episode, an emo-episode to digest the fake loss of Madi and the devastating loss of Eleanor. But I needed this slower one. There has been happening so much, so much action, so much death, the story and the characters needed a reflection episode. It even managed to make me smile on 2 occasions - Jack Rackham doing Max's accent, and grandma Guthrie proving that wives doing needle-point is nothing to put down as identity abuse. You know where Eleanor got her strength from, right there. And it's been a while since we had an outright funny moment, since 4x02 when they made the "dinner" joke about the white bird.

I also liked how they did Woodes' mourning process and finding out about the pregnancy. Trying to make sense of it, trying to blame someone else other than himself for it, and yet also trying to steer blame away from Eleanor despite she turned the guns on him, chased him off and wanted to surrender the fort. That was a nuanced, realistic, complex response to what happened. And then the puzzle pieces fit and he begins to hold himself accountable. And that was a 3x01 moment like Flint had with Miranda, when dead Eleanor faced him and one tear rolled down out of the corner of her eye. Choked up again over that. And I wanted to hit Mr. Soames in the face (like Woodes did last week) for not giving Woodes even just one damn minute alone. Billy Bones downstairs could have waited for one minute, no? And Woodes still trying to seek some answers regarding Eleanor's death with Madi, and offering emancipation for her people and other runaway slaves.

I had less patience for Silver's mourning, because it was way too sentimental (I found Woodes' much less sentimental) martyrdom of someone I already figured it would be mourning a fake death. I would have liked a bit more time with Julius there. I'm liking him. In that sense I found Eleanor's martyrdom far more refreshing, especially because aside from Woodes and Mrs. Hudson nobody really cared. That's been Eleanor's curse. Everybody has been following Flint and he's going to save the pirate republic, wants to be a savior, and yet he hasn't saved anybody so far, except once. He always fails to save a brother or sister: saved Randal but the other pirate died instead beneath the kareened Walrus, failed to save Billy, failed to save Thomas (and Miranda had warned him to stop pursuing the pardons for her husband's safety sake), certainly didn't save Miranda, didn't save Charles Vane after he learned he was captured, didn't save Silver from drowning, failed to save Eleanor and Madi. And then we have this woman who saves quite a lot of people and never ever getting the credit for it. Max doesn't know that Eleanor came up with the plan to kill those 8 crewmembers and provided the means and fighters to help Anne with it. But Anne wouldn't have succeeded without Eleanor. Eleanor saved Abigail. Eleanor also saved Flint from being killed by Vane in that S2 fight mid-season. She saved Woodes by involving Hornigold regarding the attack of the Caravan. She saved Max from Berringer and the pirates. And by fighting with the Spaniard and setting him ablaze she saved Madi too. But Anne gets the credit for the 8 crewmembers. Flint and Miranda get the credit for Abigail. And she herself doesn't know that Madi managed to survive. And this is all very interesting, because 1x01 has a beheaded John the Baptist painting in Richard Guthrie's office (and that's not the sole beheading for a woman depicted), Richard Guthrie was crucified, and persisted in saving the stray cat. In a way Eleanor is the hidden, villified, despised savior, and she never complained about not getting any credit for it. I yet have to see Madi step up to that plate.

I think Max's remark about "kill the cat" is a hint of her own end. I like the grandma Guthrie arc, but Max has a lot of blood on her hands that she washes off way too easily and shifts onto other characters entirely. Who here thought of Max when Woodes described someone close and manipulative to Eleanor msut have given her the idea to turn her guns onto him and surrender the fort? I certainly did. I think he's right. Max guilt tripped Eleanor over all that Max "lost" (which she stole from underneath Eleanor anyway) and how Eleanor and Woodes had ruined it all. She then supposedly wants to save Eleanor, but first chance she has to get on a ship, it doesn't matter all that much. I don't feel she's entitled to this revenge at all, just like she wasn't entitled to revenge on Eleanor in S2 either, because she chose to leave the safety of the guards in 1x02, blamed Eleanor for being gang-raped, and then chose to remain with her rapists. Heck, she even manipulated Eleanor into killing Vane. Eleanor: "Could you [the woman who claims to be the most powerful influence in the street] do anything about those pardoned pirates threatening to riot over Vane being shipped off?" Max: "No" (no way she would have said that straight to Woodes' face). "Soothe Nassau with a trial here." (yeah, and what good will that do?) and "make sure nobody suspects you have anything to do with it Eleanor." Ok, right, no way she's gonna succeed in that when the trial is held on the island and the execution also happens on the island. I don't want her to win! She's a Judas! False, petty and irresponsible is all she is. She's the cat who licked the milk.

And well, we know we're heading into finale territory with everyone starting to turn on Flint: Woodes dividing Silver and Flint over the cache and Madi and the man has enough experience and Billy (who knows the landing spots) to expect the pirates to try and save Madi, Rackham and Max intent on taking out Flint, and Silver intends to do the same if Flint's plan doesn't work.

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That was a bit slower than I expected, but still good. Very much a set-up episode for the end. The treasure is back in play and all the important players are at the table with their own plans in mind. 

The scenes with Rogers was really good, especially the one with Eleanor's corpse. Luke Roberts is doing some really great work this season.

Madi being alive was not very surprising. No one is dead until you got a body. I wonder how she survived though. Was it Billy that got her out? That seems the most likely scenario right now, as she definitely wasn't in any shape to get herself out.

I'm a bit surprised about the Spanish just leaving, but I guess they don't really have much of a role with only a few episodes left of the show.

The island stuff was kinda boring and the outcome kinda predictable. I'm still liking Julius a lot, he seems to have a good head on his shoulders and is a lot more reasonable than I expected when we first heard of him. It's nice to see that Flint still is kinda crazy in his wish to strike out and the British with his talk of attacking Boston.

I'm having mixed feelings about Max. While I can definitely see her side of things and understand while she does what she does, she is also being very ignorant of her own role in the story and  the blood on her hands, which she mostly conveniently places the blame for on other characters. Plus I think she'll probably be the end of Jack, one way or another. 

Grandma Guthrie was pretty much what I expected a grandma Guthrie to be. She was great and, I must say, a little bit scary. I like her a lot. 

Otherwise the star of the episode was Jack Rackham. From him complaining about docking fees to his impression of Max to his time at the Guthrie house. The best scene was naturally one where he and Anne said goodbye. A scene which I suspect will be the last time they see each other. It would have been the greatest thing in the episode, were it not for Jack's dashing new coat.

I am very much looking forward to these last three episode, while at the same time I'm kinda sad that it must end.

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17 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Israel Hands was once Teach's second man that he ditched for Vane, and Rackham followed Vane like a puppy dog, so yes he knows who Hands is. And since Flint, Silver and Rackham had a meeting and helped onto the Walrus and Rogers' sloop with launches, Jack knows Israel Hands is with Silver.

17 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Which scene was that? But he probably did meet him, because last episode Flint and Silver met up with him south of the island, and then Flint took the Walrus do the other island, and Jack went north.

Oh yes, my bad.

It was the scene where he discussed killing Flint with Anne. He said he had first to get through Silver and his wild dog. Or something like that.

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The episode description for last night spoiled the Madi reveal :( Not like everyone wasn't expecting it, though. I have to agree with other posters about this last episode: slow but enjoyable. What are liked specifically were Billy's scenes and Jack and Max's meeting with the Guthrie's.

Billy playing his new trump card was great. I'm wondering if he found Madi or learned she had been found and captured by someone else. Regardless of how she came to be captured, I love Billy using her again to drive the final wedge between Flint and Silver. Sure Silver is completely irrational and was a bit too mopey for my taste, but love does that to people. Madi's line to Rogers saying Eleanor fought and so will she was nice.

It was nice to see more of Eleanor's family and to see where she gets her strength. I always found her father to be spineless so Eleanor had to get her backbone from someone else. I found it a little odd that Jack didn't want to take Max for the initial visit because he feared she might reveal his identity only to have him announce himself as Rackham anyways. Max always seems out of her element, but always seem to pull through. Marion Guthrie measuring her was nice to see. And having Rackham as a, more or less, silent witness to it. So, does Anne pull survive the series? Jack may be done for if he's going to attempt to betray everyone.

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A "quiet" episode by the shows recent standards but still good. I liked how they milked the cat analogy so well. They fooled me into thinking they were talking about Woodes Rogers as the cat and I was thinking "that doesn't really fit" so when they revealed it was Flint I had a "duh" moment and realised I shouldn't have doubted the show.

I love how Billy has taken Flint and Silver down with a word in the correct ear. Because it's going to end badly from now on. Rogers is also realising he can be as effective wielding diplomacy as a weapon with his "pardon/amnesty" with Madi and the ex slaves. A little sneaky that he's avoiding mentioning to Madi that she's being used as a hostage at the same time, i assume?

16 hours ago, Astromech said:

It was nice to see more of Eleanor's family and to see where she gets her strength. I always found her father to be spineless so Eleanor had to get her backbone from someone else. I found it a little odd that Jack didn't want to take Max for the initial visit because he feared she might reveal his identity only to have him announce himself as Rackham anyways. Max always seems out of her element, but always seem to pull through. Marion Guthrie measuring her was nice to see. And having Rackham as a, more or less, silent witness to it. So, does Anne pull survive the series? Jack may be done for if he's going to attempt to betray everyone.

I think Jack was correct to leave her behind initially. There's a big difference revealing who you are on your own terms and Max doing so whenever she potentially saw an opportuity. I also think he only decided on the "I'm Rackham" angle after chatting with the girl. That was a fun scene bordering on meta in terms of him noting the story bares little resemblance to the truth.

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For who got Madi out: rewatch the 4x06 Eleanor fighting scene towards the end. Just as Eleanor sags on top of Madi, unable to revive her, you can definitely cearly hear a glass window being smashed. It's right at the end, before it switches back to the fight at the Underhill plantation. The place is starting to burn, but not yet fully ablaze, and thus nowhere hot enough yet to make glass explode. Flint found Eleanor with one arm extended, half on her back and a blood trail as if she was dragged there. It was way too far from the house to do on her own, after the blood loss she had already suffered, even down from the stairs. And Billy was released by Ben Gunn before the fighting began, and the most logical location for him to seek shelter would have been Miranda's house.

So, Billy arrived around the time Eleanor was crawling for the log and set the soldier on fire, smashed the window to get in safely (that solider likely had bolted the door from the inside to do his deadly work), dragged Eleanor out and carried unconscious Madi (he's big and strong enough for that). He got Eleanor far enough from the house so there was no danger for her to burn. Eleanor likely may have thought it was Flint, half conscious (smoke and blood loss), prompting Billy to take off with just Madi before Flint returned. He could not do any more for Eleanor than he did as Eleanor's fate was already sealed. However, Billy was wounded and could have carried Madi only so far.

I'd say that while he rested for a moment, Madi came to, punched him or fought him and ran, straight into Woodes' soldiers rounding up survivors. That's how Billy knew that Woodes had Madi, and the only way she could ever be of use to him was by surrendering to Woodes. We'll get a non-detailed confirmation of it in 4x08. If Eleanor hadn't fought so hard - Madi would have been dead. If Billy hadn't shown up at Miranda's - Madi would have been dead.

It's the only way to explain Madi got away that unscathed, the sound of glass being smashed, how the hell a weakened Eleanor could crawl that far while fire rages around her, and Billy not actually having Madi in his possession, and yet knowing she lives and is one of Woodes' prisoners.

Love Grandma Guthrie. Pay very close attention to that conversation and the fact that she's doing needle-point. In the Eleanor embroidery scene, Max and Eleanor talked about "change". Eleanor assured her nothing fundamental would change so quickly. And while Eleanor had grandma's backbone, she also has a knack of acting the savior, especially with Max. Notice how Grandma Guthrie used the words "the cat slave to its hunger." Grandma Guthrie also asks Max which of the three roles she had in Nassau's story: the stray cat, the rescuer, or the bully. It is Max who tells grandma to "drown the damned" cat, which is very much like those fairytales where a manipulative imposter is first asked how she would punish an imposter, is then exposed and executed in the exact way she proposed the imposer to be punished. And the focus on Max not ever ending up as a slave again... hmmmm. Grandma Guthrie imo is seeing plenty of tomcats to be drowned,not just Flint. Eleanor thought Vane was the bully, the problem and took him out. While he was indeed a very physical danger, Flint and Rackham were as much as issue if not bigger than she had anticipated in S3. And she was completely blind to Max being an issue, how Max guilt-tripped her into doing things for her again, and again, and again. Grandma Guthrie has Max and Jack thinking she'll make Rogers pay and only sees Flint as a problem, but she's taking out Max and Rackham. No matter who dies between Rackham and Flint, taht's at least one of the two gone for her. And Max is quite close at hand to take care of by herself.

Who of the Guthries helped and ensured that Richard kept some support from Boston - the contacts, the provisions? It was Granny. As a mother she loved Richard and killed the tomcat for him. So, she's the likeliest one who monitored Nassau quite thoroughly imo. She would have known about Eleanor managing those pirates all those years, Vane being the murderer of her son and Eleanor taking him out, Max taking over Eleanor's business, using Eleanor's demise for her own profit between S2 and S3, and now trying to do so again. Berringer could not actually get to Max in 4x03, because Eleanor protected her. Billy could not get to her in 4x04, because Silver and Eleanor protected her. But Granny Guthrie will. Max stayed in Philly with Anne. Now, Anne is the other "savior" who usually protects Max, except this time Anne cannot fight for her. So, Max - our stray cat - is all alone and having to face a cat drowner. And she totally does not know it. 

Is she really an issue? Yes. There is a detail oddity in 4x06. At the end of 4x05 Max sees the Spanish fleet arriving. Then in 4x06 she's calm and unphased while Mr. Soames and Frasier discuss whether to put up resistance against the Spanish or not. She says nothing of Eleanor. And her face shows no worry over Eleanor in the interior at all either. Then Lnt Utley comes down from the battlements to inform them that the lead ship sent Rogers' signal and ordered them to stand down. That's when we first see Max have a worried look. Then Mr. Soames says - well, we must follow the governor's orders. And Max begins to look fearful and nervous, biting her lip. And that's when she brings up "What about Eleanor?" for the first time. Now, if Max's primary worry was for Eleanor's safety, wouldn't she be at least just as worried about her, prior to knowing Woodes is with the Spanish? Heck, more worried? It's not the Spanish forces that Max fears. It's Woodes.

Now, why is Woodes the one that frightens her more than the Spanish, especially in relation to Eleanor? Well there was Berringer who accused her of treason, and obvioiusly her associates Featherstone and Idelle are with pirates. Without Eleanor there, she's fucked. She knows she can't truly manipulate Woodes the way she can Eleanor. She's the most influential council member and the council was willing to surrender the fort and Nassau for the cache. And it's quite clear that Woodes thought - fuck the cache, I'm not giving up on Nassau. Woodes with the Spanish fleet means that if Woodes acquires the cache, he's going to give it to the Spanish. And that is Max's issue right there. Max sees her chance to get a portion of the cache go up in smoke.

Another oddity, more glaring than the timing of Max's worry and fear is that she leaves on 1 horse (not 2). And on top of that, she leaves with Rackham when Eleanor's not at the beach. She doesn't even make an effort to gallop 10 mins inland. It just doesn't add up. If truly all she was worried about was Eleanor's safety and life, as her gallop seems to imply (she leaves the fort's safety after all), then surely she wouldn't abandon Eleanor with a finger snap an hour later.

Max got worried and galloped on the 1 horse to the beach where Eleanor was for one reason - to get the cache or a portion of it and leave. If she could convince Eleanor to abandon Woodes and leave with her that was an added bonus. But it was the cache she was after. What we believed Max's motivation to be on the surface just does not bare out at closer inspection. 

Woodes points out that Eleanor would not have turned the guns on him, not by herself. He suspects that somebody manipulated her into doing that, gave her the idea, and made her persist in it even when Woodes kept on sailing for the Fort in 4x05. Someone close to her. And that was not Hudson, but Max. Now, Eleanor certainly had her personal motivations - to free him from his debts so they could be a family together. And she was emotionally ready to be motivated to abandon Nassau and be satisfied with a life somewhere safe with him and their child. And Eleanor did conceive of the idea, before he arrived at the bay.

But when Woodes first arrived at the bay and flew his banner, she was relieved and glad. Utley asked her whether to turn the guns on Nassau beach and she ok'd it. Eleanor at that point had let go of the back-up plan she was starting to develop just before his arrival. But then Max goes to her and reminds her what she's willing to do for Max. Max had already guilt tripped Eleanor into feeling sorry for all of it (even though most of the stuff wasn't even her fault, and Max actually shares responsibility in it too). Eleanor had already promised that she would do all she could to make up for Max's losses. And Eleanor looks truly disturbed and darkly at Max when Max reminds her of that promise. Next we see her propose the offer to Flint and Silver. Max had a major manipulative influence on Eleanor to go against her husband's evident plan, intentions and will. She drove a wedge between them for her own material gain, as she had driven a wedge between Anne and Rackham before.

Woodes wonders whether Hudson and Eleanor had made a deal, with the manipulator having selfish goals. Hudson and Eleanor had a deal, but it was not a selfish one and Hudson would have done Eleanor's will anyway. She was an Eleanor x Woodes shipper anyway. The deal that we as yet still have to learn about is that Eleanor agreed to give her a portion of the cache (likely the amount of pearls Max would have gotten out of Silver in S1), and we'll learn of it next episode.

So, she pushed Eleanor into executing the plan, when it was not workable anymore. She got her own promised material gain out of it. She didn't race out to save Eleanor, but to procure that gain, and try to get more out of it in the process, now that she could tell Eleanor who Woodes had chosen as military allies. But there's no Eleanor and so there's no cache. Going after Eleanor is pointless, even if Eleanor has the cache. Max knew she wouldn't get her hands on the cache anymore.   

And then there's Flint's 180° flip over the cache. Silver assumes that Flint was willing to surrender the cache for the fort, to spare the lives of men. That this was his main motivation for accepting Eleanor's deal. I think the 180° flip reveals that wasn't actually Flint's reason. Silver told Billy that Billy made him choose, while Flint never did. Hmm, didn't he? Flint was very much aware of Billy trying to come between Silver and him. He also knows Silver well enough that Silver doesn't appreciate to be pushed around to make a choice. I'd say that Flint's primary reason to accept Eleanor's offer was also out of self-interest. Flint knew that when he gave himself up as collateral, that Billy and others (like Madi) would try to reason and influence Silver over it all, and that Silver would try to preserve Flint's life. He could sit quitely, locked away, read a book, try perhaps to influence Eleanor's mind about Woodes, while everybody else outside would be arguing over "fuck Flint!" or "fuck Billy!". So, Flint did make Silver choose between him and Billy, and that without requiring one word. Only when the note comes to meet an escort at the south tunnel to fetch the cache at the other side of the island does Flint have a worried look for a moment. He considered it might be a trap, just as Eleanor did. But Flint is good at winging it, and somehow come on top out of it after all. At the very least, Eleanor could have become his hostage. Madi awaits him and that boosts his confidence. If Madi is with him, then Silver turned on Billy and he has the maroons, and this deal might actually come through. 

Yes, but what about the cache? Well, Eleanor still needed to get the cache out of the fort on a ship, a sloop, to sail for Port Royal. The Walrus was repaired and refitted. It's not much of a biggie for Flint and them to hunt Eleanor on her sloop with the cache on her way to Port Royal, after she surrendered the fort.

Flint however did have a problem on his hand when he learned enough from Rackham that Woodes wasn't going to let go of Nassau, and there was no cache either (so he knew the MQ had not allowed to let the cache go). Eleanor was taking him back as a hostage to the fort. And with whatever Woodes returned, Flint either had to keep Eleanor out of the fort OR turn her to ally with him, so he could use the fort to put up a defense against whatever was coming. So, he begins his talk of "you were a pirate once" and later "well, Woodes would be behind this", and Eleanor is having none of it. 

This is one of those things I love about this show. There seem to be these 180° flips that make you go "duh"? But on closer inspection you get all these clues that there wasn't a 180° flip, and those clues are often said by other characters facing yet another character. Silver-Billy convo in 4x06 actually should make us wonder about his statement that Flint didn't make him choose, especially in light of his seeming 180° flip over the cache. Granny-Max convo about the cat in 4x07 and Woodes-Hudson confrontation should make us take a closer look at Max.

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4 hours ago, red snow said:

I like the idea of Billy as Madi's rescuer. It makes sense given he somehow knew Madi was a prisoner.

Exactly. I can't for the life of me imagine Spanish guys trying to get in a burning house to capture anyone. He's the only person who makes sense with that particular house and having a motivation to brave a fire to get whoever was inside out. An English solider and a maroon lying outside dead - he's the only one who could think "Madi and Eleanor are inside that house." No matter what his motivations are towards Silver, Flint or Woodes, both women would have value to him to take alive.

Hmmmm, Billy the savior of women. :cool4: He had Max too. :lmao: 

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7 hours ago, red snow said:

I like the idea of Billy as Madi's rescuer. It makes sense given he somehow knew Madi was a prisoner.

He sure gets around for someone who had the piss beat out of him the last two episodes.

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8 hours ago, Astromech said:

He sure gets around for someone who had the piss beat out of him the last two episodes.

They all have "1 year that feels like 4" healing factors :P

Besides saving herself (which would then mean she was captured quickly afterwards) it's true that there aren't many candidates for saving her besides ex-slaves. All the white people on the island are pretty racist and doubt they would rescue a black woman especially if it put them at risk.

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Someone smashed the window in. That they included that sound, just at the end of the scene as Madi wouldn't wake and Eleanor sagged on top of her they gave us the clue.

3 hours ago, red snow said:

They all have "1 year that feels like 4" healing factors :P

True that. I thought Hands had hacked in Billy's shoulder too in 4x05 with that axe. Axes don't make surface wounds to my recollection. And that beating would result in some broken ribs, no? 

That beating scene of 4x06 also reminded me of Silver's decision to pummel the guy that had attacked one of Madi's men. He offered himself up to Hornigold, even shot a brother, but it was a ruse in the end. Although I do believe Billy is genuine in his revenge feelings now. Flint back then warned Silver that he wasn't sure whether it was too little, too much, or not enough. On the other hand, if Billy had not surrendered and told Woodes about Madi, she'd already be sold into slavery. Silver and Flint would all be on their way to sack and conquer other islands and colonial towns that aren't Nassau. And Billy would still be stuck all by himself on the island, likely get caught, and killed.

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7 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Someone smashed the window in. That they included that sound, just at the end of the scene as Madi wouldn't wake and Eleanor sagged on top of her they gave us the clue.

True that. I thought Hands had hacked in Billy's shoulder too in 4x05 with that axe. Axes don't make surface wounds to my recollection. And that beating would result in some broken ribs, no?

It's not an axe, it's a war hammer. So it was more like a curved spike in the shoulder.

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3 minutes ago, GallowKnight said:

It's not an axe, it's a war hammer. So it was more like a curved spike in the shoulder.

Was it? I'll have to look again. I thought it was the axe, because he used it on Jacob, who was killed by it. But it would explain it.

Strange though: he fights Jacob with grappling axe and cutlass/hammer, but then hammer and cutlass against Billy? Why did he change weapons?

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