[SPOILERS] Black Sails Season 4: All that glitters is not Silver

[akh]

At least we have an explanation were Silver learned to fight all of a sudden!

O and that's going to be one packed finale, huh. So the dude Billy left alive was Ben Gunn? He seems the likeliest candidate to stay on the island with the treasure.

[Arkash]

Can we take a moment to appreciate how gorgeous that episode was ? It was full of truly beautiful shots and I've done my share of screencaps there ! 

I'll try to offer more constructive thoughts later but now it's time for a rewatch ! 

And welcome among us for this last ride, Leech ! 

[sweetsunray]

Jesus! What a riveting watch, once again. And then I saw there was only a minute left, and I thought "noooooooooooooooooo!".

[Corvinus85]

Such a bittersweet episode. Goodbye Walrus and your brave crew. And the Japanese guy is the Boba Fett of this show. I wish we had a back story for him, but in keeping with theme of this episode, it's not really relevant.

[sweetsunray]

Well, after 4x08 and knowing in TI 6 dead men were used to point to the treasure, I knew Joji was going to die. Glad they gave him a fight moment to shine RIP Joji, the man who never spoke a word, not even when dying. RIP Dooley the fool, never realizing how he was used. Flint was never going to let you live to reveal where the treasure is buried. RIP DeGroot, a good hearted man, caring for the crew, but never the biggest strategist. 

What echoed in my head as a thought all the time in relation to Madi’s arguments is that she’s not fighting for the future, but the many centuries of the past, for ghosts (remember Anne’s words to Jack in 4x01 about that). That’s a war without end, because both sides will commit atrocities and it will be a never ending cycle. And then it hit me where Black Sails is filmed - South Africa, where the atrocities of Apartheid were resolved through compromize and the acknowledgment of the “truth” without punishment, and do it differently from then on. Even the timing of it is close to fitting. Nassau (as Nassau) is built in 1690 and Black Sails ends in 1715. Apartheid laws were being dropped in 1990 and Nelson Mandela freed. And in 1995 the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was started up, where those who admitted their wrongs truthfully were not prosecuted; roughly 20 years ago. That was the compromize - equality and truth, but no vengeance for the past. A war never ever brings back the dead, only more deateh, and is just as wrong as the atrocities of the past when the other side is offering a hand of change (even if that man does it for his own reasons), a chance to do it differently, and the people offering that hand were not the ones who did those atrocities for the past centuries. It just prolongs the atrocities. A war is not the same as justice. It never is. A war is either fought aggressively to gain something, or to defend something. But it never is justice. We know this from WWI, where Germany was bled and punished after its loss, which became the feeding ground for WWII. That has always been what rubbed me wrong about Flint’s decision in S3. Flint’s war is about murdering and massacring people, towns and cities for the wrongful death of two people, and everybody seems to think those people are monsters for defending themselves and fighting back against a man who cannot compromize, after he rejected their outstretched hand for reconciliation. If you cannot let go of the past, then there is no future, ever. 

I had one good laugh: Rackham and Featherstone talking about their feeling of standing on the treshhold of "true freedom" - the choice to live life, and then Avery's man keeling over from a heart attack, and Featherstone not actually knowing the way.

 

[Pliskin]

This episode destroyed me, in a way few shows or movies ever did. I really don't want next week to end... Let freeze time a little, please.

If this show doesn't get finally recognized for its writing and acting this year... it will be a crime equal to the previous case of The Wire.

8 hours ago, akh said:

O and that's going to be one packed finale, huh. So the dude Billy left alive was Ben Gunn? He seems the likeliest candidate to stay on the island with the treasure.

Yes, Ben Gunn was introduced in season 3. Billy spared him because he was his right hand man on Nassau.

[sweetsunray]

10 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

This episode destroyed me, in a way few shows or movies ever did. I really don't want next week to end... Let freeze time a little, please.

If this show doesn't get finally recognized for its writing and acting this year... it will be a crime equal to the previous case of The Wire.

Yes, Ben Gunn was introduced in season 3. Billy spared him because he was his right hand man on Nassau.

And Ben Gunn freed him from his chains in 4x06. Only Jacob Garrett and Ben Gunn remained loyal to Billy. Jacob was killed by Hands, and Billy gave Ben Gunn a chance to escape and keep his life.

I fully agree. This show should be recognized for the brilliancy that it is on every scope: writing, acting, cinematography, action, drama. I hope the finale goes over then 53 min mark.

[Zorral]

23 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I did end up preferring Trinidad over Baracoa, but this has a lot to do with the people we met. Cuba is a double edged experience imo - on the one hand there are all the rules of sociolisation, who's allowed to socialise with tourists, and that went against my initial sensibilities of freedom, but on the other hand a lot of the "friends" I made were only interested in well using you. And in Trinidad we spent several evenings with a group of artists who refused to let us buy anything for them, unless they chipped in. It felt more like a true exchange, a true meeting afterwards, whereas it became clear after Baracao that some people there were not that genuine after all. Though it took me weeks to process that. I loved it while there. It was a relaxed place, friendly, not touristy, a mix, less colonial, but afterwards I had a double feeling about it. So, for me it would be Trinidad, and walking up the hill to the church ruin at night and pass the rum around, while listening to guitar players and talking to the painters.  

I liked Bayamo too, because it reminded me more of Mexico, and Pinar Del Rio is truly peaceful and different. Havana also grew on me, and we had a good friendship with people of a dance school where we went every day and we met for a final goodbye party. Not a fan of Camaguey and Santiago. 

Whereas I'm a total Santiaguera -- and I really dislike Havana!  Despite having spent so much time there over the years -- or perhaps, because I have spent so much time there.

It also depends on so much, including why one comes in, and everything else. (My first time in Cuba was 1990.  Spent no time other than a few hours sleeping in Havana. Drove across country, twice, in a broken down Lada, to Santiago.  I imprinted on Oriente, perhaps.  Always at home in the landscape and among the people (farming background helps).

Most of all, I am an historian, and I also love castles, and the Spanish format of building their fortaleza castillos around their New World empire are places I always visit -- from St. Augustine in Florida to Cartegena. Nor can one get away from the history of piracy in the Caribbean when visiting.   

[sweetsunray]

8 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Whereas I'm a total Santiaguera

Conga Santiaguera...

[Zorral]

1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

 

Ay-up -- was there in 1990 for that!  And several times since, along with the celebrations of July 26th . . . .

Been invited to participate in this coming up in July.  For this part:

Quote

This Caribbean fiesta was originally intended to be a serious event and the show’s organisers still have a number of conferences, academic shops and discussion panels that take place during the course of the one week of the festival

 

[sweetsunray]

16 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Ay-up -- was there in 1990 for that!  And several times since, along with the celebrations of July 26th . . . .

Been invited to participate in this coming up in July.  For this part:

 

Yes, we celebrated the July festivities there too. We went from Bayamo to Baracoa first (for several days, and climbed the Anvil), and then back to Santiago for the festival. The month after that Fidel became sick and his brother became the de facto leader. 

But in truth I lost my heart to Mexico in 1998, just by visiting DF alone already, and while I love so many places there, my favourite city still is San Cristobal where I've been about 8-9 times for months, and went to a Zapatista convention (though I'm actually very skeptical of the way they do things). I tend to have a bias to towns and cities that remind me of San Cristobal to start with, such as Trinidad in Cuba, Antigua in Guatemala, Copal in Honduras, Leon in Nicaragua, Cuzco in Peru.

[sweetsunray]

Also the irony of Israel Hands having one cut hand and the other broken.

[Astromech]

The episode was a bit short, but, Wow, that was some body count. No real surprise as to who survives, but Woodes really was taking no prisoners. And Madi really put everything in perspective for Woodes. A voice? Way to point the finger right back at him for Eleanor's death.

Rackham and Featherstone's adventure is a comedy of errors, which I enjoy, but missing Anne not being with him.

It's sad this series is coming to an end, but I've thoroughly enjoyed the ride.

[Corvinus85]

49 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Also the irony of Israel Hands having one cut hand and the other broken.

I was surprised how easily Flint owned Israel in that fight. There was even an egregious moment when Flint could have easily stabbed him in the back after kicking him in the knee. Granted, Fling did say he didn't really want to kill him.

[sweetsunray]

11 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I was surprised how easily Flint owned Israel in that fight. There was even an egregious moment when Flint could have easily stabbed him in the back after kicking him in the knee. Granted, Fling did say he didn't really want to kill him.

Yeah me too, especially after Silver hacked into Billy that easily, and Billy and Flint were almost a match in 4x02. Also noticed that Israel's arms were sto stiff and outstretched while fighting, in a way he didn't have against Billy. Then again, Flint had the advantage in distance against Israel's cutlass and hammer. Joji definitely had the advantage to Flint, until Flint lured him in closer standing trees and then that ditch.

I'd say it's probably the environment. Israel's fight against Max's men, Jacob and Billy were open plain fights, against men not nearly as experienced in fighting against an experienced opponent, except for Billy, but even against 2 weapons he was not experienced enough. Flint fought him on a swampy little clearing and likely more prepared to fight against menwielding 2 weapons at once. 

Of course there was this guy with a pistol who decided to fight with swords anyway. Though those pistols were usually flint-locks with just one shot. With an unrushing opponent with sword, you might prefer to ditch the pistol that may missfire or not wound fatally and defend yourself with a sword.

[GallowKnight]

A lot death this episode. RIP Mr De Groot, he always gave sound advice and was never listened too, it's fitting that he went down with the ship. RIP Dooley, the latest in a long row of victims to Captain Flint. RIP Joji, never said a word but gave us two pretty cool fights in this episode and was probably the most curious member of the Walrus crew. RIP The Walrus (again) and the Walrus crew. RIP Billy Bones' last shred of decency.

A lot of action too. Like I said, the Joji fight were pretty cool, I especially liked the short but effective fight between him and Dooley. The fight between Hands and Flint was a disappointment though. It seemed like Hands had just completely forgotten how too fight. And I think that Rogers taking out the Walrus was a little bit too easy.

There was a lot of good stuff in this episode. The flashbacks were great, I liked how Silver just couldn't be completely honest, plus it explains how he learned to fight. The scene with Madi and Rogers was fantastic too, especially Madi shutting Rogers down. And in addition to that the whole episode was beautifully shot.

I liked the scene with Rackham and the old man, but this part of the story has started to feel a bit like an afterthought.

There's a lot of things that needs to be packed into the finale. I am actually wondering how they are going to get it all in there. At least the chest is in the ground so that is taken care off. I think the show could have needed another season to properly tell the story, as of right now Nassau and the rebellion feels a little bit forgotten given that it has been the focus of most of the season. Anyway, I both look forward too the last episode and don't look forward too it. It want to see how it ends but I don't really want it to end.

[sweetsunray]

The more I let 4x09 sink in, the sadder I get really. This is truly heading for the end, in a dark and sad and tragic way.

SPECULATION

Based on the promo and the feels I'm getting about the "legend being born" and writers saying how they regard Treasure Island more as a fictional tale crafted based on the legend born out of the BS times, you need Silver to disappear somehow (as in no body being found), Flint dying so nobody knows where the cache is hidden, someone surviving to tell stories of the good old days, but feeling miserable and guilty (that would be Billy). Jack and Featherstone die too. As long as they have a guilty drunk with a map of Skeleton Island surviving who knew Flint and Silver and Madi, like Billy, then the show establsihed all the basic ingredients for Stevenson to make notations and invent a pirate adventure story based on that.

The promo shows Jack picking up Flint, Silver, Hands and Ben Gunn (!!!!) with his ranger crew (launch, and Jack talking to Silver). So he gets to Skeleton Island. In other words, Woodes sails away from Skeleton Island, leaving Flint, Silver and Israel marooned there, feeling sure they can't get off and nobody will find them. He won't search for the cache, either because Jack is sighted OR because he's satisfied with the (false) belief that no other pirate is able to find the island and cache either (and thus not able to use the cache for war). Silver would want to chase Woodes to save Madi. Flint would want to chase Woodes to finish him (because he knows where Skeleton Island is) as well as Billy, in order to get back to his war plans. And Jack needs Flint to know where his cache is buried, but ends up saying "-f Grandma. I'm going out in blaze and glory and won't be remembered as the pirate who surrendered a Man O War to Woodes". That sea speech of Avery's man made his eyes shine. Maybe he hopes to take out Flint afterwards. But at least Jack, Silver and Flint seem to team up as far as battling Woodes and boarding the Eurydice. Anyway, I'd say both Jack and Featherstone die in that battle. Neither can survive to keep the island's whereabouts secret, and they die historically anyway (though by hanging). And the likeliest man to kill Jack would be Woodes himself. Utley likely kills Featherstone. 

I really don't see Flint survive either. But I don't think he dies at the hand of an English sword, even if he tries to get to Woodes, and we can rule out Hands doing it (because of his impaired hands). So that leaves Silver or Billy. It was definitely Billy holding a knife to Madi's throat in the hull. And he looked frightened at Woodes ready to engage the sloop for battle. So, I'd say he'll probably take Madi hostage as life insurance, at which point Silver would be motivated to kill Flint to save her life. 

For a legend to be born, Silver only needs to disappear in a way that nobody is certain whether he's dead or alive. Falling overboard might be enough (since Billy did exactly that and survived, so Billy can keep on believing and fearing that Silver survived after all), though in fact we may see Silver drown. Billy has done enough already to remain in fear for the rest of his life that Silver might get out to get him, without actually having to kill Madi. If Silver is not actually required to survive for a spooked Billy to tell stories of his past to a writer called Stevenson then Madi isn't required to survive either. And her refusal in 4x09 pretty much made her an obstacle for the treaty plot point. While that may still fail (at least fail for Woodes), it is very reminiscint to the deal offered and accepted by Queen Nanni and Cudjoe at Jamaica 20 years later (and Woodes died only a few years before that), and Julius and the Maroon Queen seem grafted after them. But it cannot happen with Madi still havig this fighting spirit, especially since she talked of fighting a war for past atrocities rather than the future of her people. She likely does "die fighting", either to get to Silver, fighting Billy, or to try and jump after Silver to save him from the water. (I actually hope Silver and Madi at least would have a happy ending, but well the show has turned so sad and dark, I can hardly picture that happening). 

I expect we'll see Eleanor's ghost wielding a sword on the ship... see Schmitz's published pic of Hannah New's last day on the set, which was in her green dress, holding a sword, aboard a ship, and Stephens' stunt double. He published that pic after the 4x06 episode, which seemed inoccuous, but very relevant to a ship battle and her ghost presence at least in Woodes' mind. Possibly she'll turn her ghost sword against her husband. That was a very dark image of her in 4x09, and those knitting needles sounded like swords being sharpened at the end of Madi's speech when she said "You did that" to Woodes, or she does try to defend her husband. No idea. Then again, I think the writers would still think it most poetic to have him survive it all, believe himself victorious, only to arrive in Nassau and be given an arrest warrant for his debts. It could go either way. They each saved each other once, they might end up beind the death of each other too. But there is a still of Woodes in the assembly hall, all by himself, looking at someone, somewhat surprised, which has been linked to the finale, and it's not of any scene we've seen so far. Unless it's Woodes as ghost. WTF knows. 

Anyway, at this point I think Jack, Featherstone, Flint die. That Silver and Madi most likely die, but Silver in a way that Billy thinks he survived. Woodes either dies or is arrested. We might have a scene of Thomas and Abigail in the pre-Savannah plantation, learning of all these characters' fates. And we have a resolution scene in Nassau, likely with a treaty between Maroons and Mr. Soames. But I think it's impossible to beg for a TI sequel by the audience, as all involved will be dead, except for Billy and Ben Gunn (who may find out Flint's secret).

[Arkash]

Oh I'd quite like seing Abigail and Thomas in the finale for sure ! 

[Corvinus85]

10 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Yeah me too, especially after Silver hacked into Billy that easily, and Billy and Flint were almost a match in 4x02. Also noticed that Israel's arms were sto stiff and outstretched while fighting, in a way he didn't have against Billy. Then again, Flint had the advantage in distance against Israel's cutlass and hammer. Joji definitely had the advantage to Flint, until Flint lured him in closer standing trees and then that ditch.

I'd say it's probably the environment. Israel's fight against Max's men, Jacob and Billy were open plain fights, against men not nearly as experienced in fighting against an experienced opponent, except for Billy, but even against 2 weapons he was not experienced enough. Flint fought him on a swampy little clearing and likely more prepared to fight against menwielding 2 weapons at once. 

Of course there was this guy with a pistol who decided to fight with swords anyway. Though those pistols were usually flint-locks with just one shot. With an unrushing opponent with sword, you might prefer to ditch the pistol that may missfire or not wound fatally and defend yourself with a sword.

Not ditch it, since those pistols can be used as cudgels. I half expected Flint to go two handed, and use the pistol like that. But then again, all his hand-to-hand combat skill comes from the British navy. I guess there's a statement there that even the most experienced pirate can fall to a well trained English officer. They show this with Rogers, too. Though Israel did take out Barringer. 

[Zorral]

Quote

. . . If Silver is not actually required to survive for a spooked Billy to tell stories of his past to a writer called Stevenson . . .

Wouldn't the timeline make this impossible?  R.L. Stevenson wasn't born until 1850, while Woodes Rogers's Nassau campaign was essentially finished by 1720 (not that I'm expert here!).

In the meantime, Woodes Rogers's Cruising Voyage Around The World is available in full text online, and can be downloaded free --

https://archive.org/details/cruisingvoyagero00roge_0