GallowKnight

[SPOILERS] Black Sails Season 4: All that glitters is not Silver

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2 hours ago, Zorral said:

To acquire the full history of piracy, slavery, revolution within this era, these make up a magnificent trilogy of books by a great historian, Marcus Rediker, Villains of All Nations: Atlantic Pirates in the Golden Age, The Slave Ship: A Human History, and the book he co-wrote with Peter Linebaugh, The Many-Headed Hydra: Sailors, Slaves, Commoners, and the Hidden History of the Revolutionary Atlantic.

I've mentioned these books in the Blacks Sails topic previously, but maybe two years ago by now?

Thanks for the titles. I'll have to check my local library system. There seem to be a number of average works on the subject of piracy, so I always check the reviews thoroughly for something quite good.

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This was a good set-up episode. Things are certainly lining up. 

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Spoilers for episode 5 ! 

 

Damm, the chills I had when Mrs Hudson started to wonder where they were and I started to slowly realize the only place they could be was Havana... and then I laughed so much with excitation when it was confirmed !

Well, that will definitly open a whole new can of trouble and I cant wait to see what comes of it ! 

Also, on the sidenotes, I wonder if Kofi's delay wasnt because he ran into Julius... after all, the show wouldnt introduce a new major player like that for nothing and it could turn out interesting if the cache is with Julius... maybe a little far-fetched but who knows...

Oh, and I really hope we get some continuation of that last scene on the beach next episode, I really want to see Jack facing Eleanore ! And to get some news on Anne but judging from Jack's behaviour, she's hanging in there ! Really wish she'll recover, though I cant see how she can regain her full strenght in the course of what remains of the season after what she's been through...

Anyway, another splendid episode ! And that exchange between governors at Havana was beautiful ! Light, dialogue, performance... as always, every episode of the show contains at least two extremely memorable scenes (at least), usually a dialogue scene and a more nervous or action-packed one, and this time it would have been that reception at Havana and the whole finale and its build-up ! 

Edited by Arkash

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42 minutes ago, Arkash said:

Spoilers for episode 5 ! 

 

Damm, the chills I had when Mrs Hudson started to wonder where they were and I started to slowly realize the only place they could be was Havana... and then I laughed so much with excitation when it was confirmed !

Well, that will definitly open a whole new can of trouble and I cant wait to see what comes of it ! 

Also, on the sidenotes, I wonder if Kofi's delay wasnt because he ran into Julius... after all, the show wouldnt introduce a new major player like that for nothing and it could turn out interesting if the cache is with Julius... maybe a little far-fetched but who knows...

Oh, and I really hope we get some continuation of that last scene on the beach next episode, I really want to see Jack facing Eleanore ! And to get some news on Anne but judging from Jack's behaviour, she's hanging in there ! Really wish she'll recover, though I cant see how she can regain her full strenght in the course of what remains of the season after what she's been through...

Anyway, another splendid episode ! And that exchange between governors at Havana was beautiful ! Light, dialogue, performance... as always, every episode of the show contains at least two extremely memorable scenes (at least), usually a dialogue scene and a more nervous or action-packed one, and this time it would have been that reception at Havana and the whole finale and its build-up ! 

I figured he was going to Havana since the trailer came out in October. The garb of the background characters was a give away (a household slave in typical Spanish Moorish style garb). And the preview last week showed men in grey costume with loads of buttons (like matador vests), which is also Spanish. And then there's the historical tidbit that Spain did invade New Providence from the interior while Rogers was governor and took a whole lot of captured slaves with them. Made sense to use this in some way to deal with a slave army, and for this version of Woodes to make a deal with Havana, certainly once he could use the cache as a carrot.

But oh my... So Woodes lost his younger brother Thomas and killed the younger brother of the Havana governor in that galeon he caught. Ouch.

I think Anne is alive, yes. They jumped some time, so they can show her on the mend again. But while clever, Eleanor made a huge mistake when she came out with Flint. Those 6 redcoats will easily become redshirts to dispose off. Wonder whether Max rides out to warn Flint and Eleanor. But one thing I'm sure off. Rogers will retake Nassau while Eleanor isn't in the fort and gone. Enter message from Jack or Silver. 

Gosh, the tension this episode was just killing me. And it's only building and building. Aaaaaagh!

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That entry into Havana was fantastic. It looked amazing. I love how Woodes is single-minded in his war against the pirates. He will do anything to ensure they're eliminated.

Leave it to Jack to be the best judge of character and realize Woodes would never agree to the deal. The biggest question I had following this episode was Anne's fate after not seeing her with Jack. I hope she survived, but Jack didn't seem to distraught, so I'm assuming she is just recuperating.

There was an awful lot of maneuvering this episode and it was all handled quite well. I loved Israel's advice to Silver. Sometimes you just need a simple man whispering in your ear.

And wtf Billy! All those curls for nothing. Maybe he should have spent more time learning how to swordfight.

Like previous seasons, all of this suspense and tension keeps building and building. I can't wait for it all to come to a head.

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2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I think Anne is alive, yes. They jumped some time, so they can show her on the mend again. But while clever, Eleanor made a huge mistake when she came out with Flint. Those 6 redcoats will easily become redshirts to dispose off. Wonder whether Max rides out to warn Flint and Eleanor. But one thing I'm sure off. Rogers will retake Nassau while Eleanor isn't in the fort and gone. Enter message from Jack or Silver. 

Gosh, the tension this episode was just killing me. And it's only building and building. Aaaaaagh!

The preview does show Max going to warn Jack and probably the rest. But there is also the irony that Eleanor is now out of the fort, and Woodes told the Spanish governor to slaughter everyone outside the fort.

30 minutes ago, Astromech said:

And wtf Billy! All those curls for nothing. Maybe he should have spent more time learning how to swordfight.

I was sure Billy was a dead man. He may have the reach and strength, but Israel is insane, and he fights like a viking with that axe and sword.

In the previews to this season they said that Flint and Israel will be the angel, and devil, respectively on Silver's shoulders, but I find it amusing that Flint is the talkative, manipulating one, and Israel just stares him down and slaps him when he needs to.

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1 minute ago, Corvinus said:

The preview does show Max going to warn Jack and probably the rest. But there is also the irony that Eleanor is now out of the fort, and Woodes told the Spanish governor to slaughter everyone outside the fort.

Exactly! I've seen a picture where what seems to me a Spanish soldier attacking a redcoat, while Flint attacks the greycoat. So, that are the Spanish trampling New Providence underfoot. However, Jack I think may hold her on his ship. But yes, there certainly is irony in Woodes telling - don't touch the Fort, everythign else can burn, while Eleanor (imo foolishly) left the fort's safety. It's some kind of funny and nailbiting to see how the characters are shifted in different positions time and time again.

We'll invade Nassau => fail, defeated with only a handful of survivors

We'll hang the captured pirates => needs time to process and hang them

Flint and Billy worried about the numbers of soldiers still at Nassau, but Teach taking out what - at least half of them?

Woodes luring Teach away, leaving Nassau secure in Berringer's hands with the aim to get Eleanor to Philly => Teach taken out, Man o War is his, but outnumbered Berringer loses Nassau and Eleanor in the fort instead, setting prisoners free.

Send 42 pirates to Port Royal to be hanged there. Hubris of 4-5 men and Jack back in play (and I think Anne is on th her way to recovery), arriving at the beach instead of the cache, ready to take Eleanor of their hands and hold her hostage against Woodes.

Acquire the dreaded fleet of Havana to burn Nassau and only save those in the fort: Eleanor not there anymore.

They're really good at this.

 

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47 minutes ago, Astromech said:

I love how Woodes is single-minded in his war against the pirates. He will do anything to ensure they're eliminated.

Leave it to Jack to be the best judge of character and realize Woodes would never agree to the deal.

Yes. Even Flint believed it, because Eleanor believed it. She sort of thinks she's the convict needing to learn to be the better person, but she doesn't half realize how dark and determined Woodes can be. Blinded by love ;)

Now, Rackham is the judge of character now, but last season and until 4X03 he painfully underestimated Woodes. But he learned from his mistake.

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Haven't seen the preview for 4x06 yet. Since I'm in Belgium, there's no way for me to watch the show in any legal way, unfortunately. :(  I do buy the DVDs though, but season 3 ain't even out on DVD here. And the torrents don't include the previews. Will have to wait until tomorrow morning and starz puts the preview up on their site (they don't do that until it aired).

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One of the writers made an interesting comment about one of Silver and Madi's conversations in the behind the scenes after the episode; basically, her telling Silver to hand Billy over to the Underhills to save the slave-pirate alliance was the point where Silver realized Madi was in Flint's sphere of influence. Interesting since Billy said Flint would be the destruction of Madi. It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

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2 minutes ago, Astromech said:

One of the writers made an interesting comment about one of Silver and Madi's conversations in the behind the scenes after the episode; basically, her telling Silver to hand Billy over to the Underhills to save the slave-pirate alliance was the point where Silver realized Madi was in Flint's sphere of influence. Interesting since Billy said Flint would be the destruction of Madi. It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

Yeah. The writer was right. When she said those things and how no sacrifice was too great to get the alliances back together and it would never be easy to control Nassau, she was voicing imo exactly the reasons why Flint accepted the deal - better build Nassau from scratch, creating order than give these men the cache and then they'll do nothing and there would only be in-fighting. And I thought - she sounds exactly like Flint. And then Silver said it. And yes, that absolutely would put the fear in Silver's mind about how Flint might be the end of her.

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Billy going to the Underhills will place him in perfect position to hurt Flint.

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1 hour ago, Relic said:

Billy going to the Underhills will place him in perfect position to hurt Flint.

Will it? That's not how I took that at all. I was under the impression that Billy was going to be left to the mercy of the slave revolt (which yeah, could be wrong).

I'm already so sad about this show ending.

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4 minutes ago, kairparavel said:

Will it? That's not how I took that at all. I was under the impression that Billy was going to be left to the mercy of the slave revolt (which yeah, could be wrong).

I'm already so sad about this show ending.

I had the same impression. Besides, with an axe wound in his shoulder, I doubt that Billy is able to hurt anyone. I'd bet he ends up a prisoner in the hands of the Spanish and Rogers.

And based on the preview of 4x06, it seems that Eleanor and Flint return overland to the tunnel, without any awareness of what has arrived on the island.

Edited by sweetsunray

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I dont think Billy would come out on top of his trip at the Underhill estate.

My guess is that he will fall into Julius's army's hands and they will keep him alive only to use him to their advantage before he manages to escape...

But then again, there is no way to know with this show, I maybe completely alway from any semblance of truth here.

Oh, and, by the way, a little though to Mr de Groot who's completely fallen off to the sidelines since he lost his ear... we briefly saw him at the beginning of the episode but I wonder if there's anything left in store for the character by the end of the season ! 

Edited by Arkash

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12 hours ago, kairparavel said:

Will it? That's not how I took that at all. I was under the impression that Billy was going to be left to the mercy of the slave revolt (which yeah, could be wrong).

I'm already so sad about this show ending.

I misunderstood what was said,  actually. My initial,  erroneous impression,  was that Silver was going to send Billy to the same place Flint's lover is being kept. Oops. 

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RIP Jacob Garrett. I admittedly had look up the characters name, but he has been hanging around since at least season 2 and he got a good, albeit ultimately fruitless, death. Israel Hands is a beast. I like how he's essentially acting as Silver's hand, doing whatever needs doing without questioning orders. And that warhammer is pretty scary.

For a moment I seriously though that they were going to kill Billy and deviate from Treasure Island. Either way he's not going to be in fighting shape for a while. Otherwise I gotta say that Billy kinda made sense in this episode, even if he got way to excited about the possibility to kill Flint.

I didn't expect the reversal at the end and was quite surprised to see Jack there instead. It seems like there was some significant progression of time during the episode too, so maybe Anne is starting to feel a bit better. Jack is certainly not going to be underestimating Rodgers again.

With Spain in play we got quite a big collection of factions on the move in Nassau. And with only 5 episodes left I am expecting some seriously epic shit going forward.

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A quieter episode but there was still a lot going on. Rogers has definitely come into his own this season and is living up to his legend.

I enjoyed the politics this episode immensely - everyone had their own agendies and plots going on. Rogers with his scorched earth policy showed the deal Flint took as the reckless thing I had beleived it to be. It was great to see that realisation dawn on Flint during his conversation with Rackham at the end. So Flint was wrong and Billy was right. It was also clear that Silver not only felt from the start it was a bad deal but I think also realised that this was Flint driving a wedge between all of the resistance leaders. So, like most Flint plans, he is essentially back where he started but with Billy out of the equation. Assuming he isn't dragged back in chains next episode.

Israel hands is a lot of fun. I laughed out loud with his "shut the fuck up and decide" moment with Silver - it reminded me so much of Deadwood at its funniest. When not cutting through the bullshit Israel also seems to be a killing machine as well.

I like how there was some accidental resonance with Donald Trump too. The bit where Garett basically said that Silver can spew false news and they all choose to accept it because that's the safest play.

On 27/02/2017 at 4:34 PM, GallowKnight said:

I didn't expect the reversal at the end and was quite surprised to see Jack there instead. It seems like there was some significant progression of time during the episode too, so maybe Anne is starting to feel a bit better. Jack is certainly not going to be underestimating Rodgers again.

With Spain in play we got quite a big collection of factions on the move in Nassau. And with only 5 episodes left I am expecting some seriously epic shit going forward.

I think time was pretty fluid in the episode. I think they flat out announced 4 days (or was it weeks?) had passed between scenes at one point. 4 days seems more reasonable otherwise they had a hell of a long time to mull things over. Plus, the Spanish probably couldn't have mobilised as quickly as they appear to have. It could be that Rogers scenes weren't necessarily parallel to the islands - although i think it probably was. It doesn't matter too much.

I agree that some epic shit looks imminent. Although I wonder whether we'll get that prior to the finale? I'm still not sure where the show will actually finish - I initially thought it would end with Rogers in control of Nassau but in a sense they've already had that. The spanish did try and invade so I guess we're getting a spin on that. I guess it will end with Silver in charge. I guess i can wait and see.

Part of me likes to entertain the thought they'll do another show with Silver 10 years down the line.

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Posted (edited)

15 hours ago, red snow said:

I think time was pretty fluid in the episode. I think they flat out announced 4 days (or was it weeks?) had passed between scenes at one point. 4 days seems more reasonable otherwise they had a hell of a long time to mull things over.

They did time jump. When Eleanor visits Flint in the cell and has the Mr. Scott talk, she says Kofi left the day before yesterday for the cache (2 days). We know from S3 the sailing time between Nassau and Maroon Island is at least 2 days. And Blackbeard said in S3 to Vane that it was 3 days sailing to Ocracoke the day after the fireship. So, it should be at least 4 days before they can even expect Kofi back. I'd say it's longer than that, probably around 6 days to a week. Eleanor also asked Woodes to wait for her arrival with the cache in Port Royal for a fortnight. Cuba is closer to Nassau than North Carolina. So, Woodes arrives in Havana after 2 days, let's say Day 3 after the fall of Nassau (27th of December). It would take at least a day to gather the forces, load the supplies for the fleet, etc. Judging by that I'd say the Spanish fleet can't arrive before a week after Flint gonig through the tunnel gate. It's likely even more. Since my guess would be that Woodes wins Nassau again after the 12 foolish days after Christmas.

So, why took Jack so long to arrive at New Providence? I think he continued to Port Royal with Anne, pretending to be someone else, so she could be taken care of. Jack didn't know about Silver's victory in Nassau and he'd be utterly nuts if he sailed directly back for Nassau after acquiring the ship with the ranger crew. He'd want to get her to a doctor ASAP. Anne had contacts in Port Royal from her S2 spying for leads period. Jack would have learned in Port Royal from refugees that Silver and Flint had taken Nassau, but that Eleanor and others are inside the fort (hence no attempt to enter the bay). And of course, he would know that Rogers wasn't in Port Royal.

15 hours ago, red snow said:

I agree that some epic shit looks imminent. Although I wonder whether we'll get that prior to the finale? I'm still not sure where the show will actually finish - I initially thought it would end with Rogers in control of Nassau but in a sense they've already had that. The spanish did try and invade so I guess we're getting a spin on that. I guess it will end with Silver in charge. I guess i can wait and see.

4x06 will imo be Rogers fighting for Nassau, everybody else trying to survive the Spanish on the island, likely with a victory for Rogers at the end of 4x06, while we may see Eleanor dying at the hands of the Spanish. 4x07 would be the aftermath and the surviving pirates regrouping somewhere else, with Jack going on a mission to take Rogers down, have him arrested for debts or something, while the others seek a new hide-out and go to this mystery location north of Florida, with the final falling out between Silver and Flint. In TI Silver is a landless pirate king. If Eleanor survives 4x06 she won't die at all imo, but likely chooses to disappear herself, choose a future for her child, and have Rogers believe she's dead. 

Edited by sweetsunray

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Just checking in case i was dumb and missed something but Flint was at the beach because that's where the cache was hidden, right? If not I was completely misinterpreting the scene as I thought Jack was there trying to take off with the cache himself, realising everything had turned to shit. He looked a bit guilty when talking with Flint.

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