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[SPOILERS] Black Sails Season 4: All that glitters is not Silver


GallowKnight

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34 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

And takes the "treasure" and then bury it somewhere, with the Walrus and crew, almost as if he's refusing to let anyone use it for any Pirate Republic, while Silver feels he's owed. I would say learning or meeting with Thomas and/or Abigail would break him and go 180° to what he is at the start of S3.

I'm really hoping Flint learns something new of the two. Maybe not a reunion, but at least gets news of them, assuming Thomas didn't meet the fate Flint believes he did.

28 minutes ago, Martini Sigil said:

Agree with the consensus.... great episode, from soup to nuts.... the plantation battle was extraordinary... but am I mistaken, or is Madi alive in TI????

Damn it! I think you're right. Or maybe Silver is delusional and just thinks or acts like she still is?

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It's suggested that Madi died in the fire, but Eleanor managed to get out of Miranda's house. Personally, I think she managed to get Madi out of there. But someone, likely the Spanish, captured her. The Spanish killed the Europeans, but women of African descent or even men they could capture alive would be prizes as slaves. They couldn't put Europeans to work as slaves, so they are the deadliest against them. That's what Eleanor refers to imo when she says she tried to save Madi. They left a bit out of what happened. But yes, Silver has a wife of African descent with a tavern.

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12 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

It's suggested that Madi died in the fire, but Eleanor managed to get out of Miranda's house. Personally, I think she managed to get Madi out of there. But someone, likely the Spanish, captured her. The Spanish killed the Europeans, but women of African descent or even men they could capture alive would be prizes as slaves. They couldn't put Europeans to work as slaves, so they are the deadliest against them. That's what Eleanor refers to imo when she says she tried to save Madi. They left a bit out of what happened. But yes, Silver has a wife of African descent with a tavern.

Eleanor told Flint that she couldn't save her, meaning Madi most likely. And Madi had her head cracked, so was most likely concussed. It would be a miracle if she got herself out of there, unless someone did show up and got her out. If she is alive, I think it's more likely that she will end up in Rogers's hands.

But, damn, I'm still reeling about Eleanor. 

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1 minute ago, Corvinus said:

Eleanor told Flint that she couldn't save her, meaning Madi most likely. And Madi had her head cracked, so was most likely concussed. It would be a miracle if she got herself out of there, unless someone did show up and got her out. If she is alive, I think it's more likely that she will end up in Rogers's hands.

But, damn, I'm still reeling about Eleanor. 

Yes, it is likely she ends up in Roger's hands. I've been considering Billy as the one who got both of them out. Eleanor had to crawl a long ass way beyond that porch. Not sure she could have done that on her own still, the way she was bleeding, though there was a blood trail. Eleanor could have passed out though for a little while, from smoke inhalation and blood loss.

I came to see Eleanor's characterization and partnerships and alliances sort of as Eleanor being a human characterization of Nassau itself. Her age matches. The pirates she did ally with (either as lover and protector or for business) would have been those that if Nassau had a personality and choice and voice would have partnered with for its own progress, protection, survival, but also would end up rejecting. If Nassau had a say and a personality it wouldn't have liked Blackbeard one bit, would have come to take a distance from Vane, but also not risk being harmed for Hornigold's pride to retake the fort, couldn't agree to Flint gunning it, would readily betray Vane when an alternative reconciliation with England beckoned, and want to see such a pirate dead as threatening progress, even if it meant killing part of its own past ties. And of course, historical Woodes is and remains a founding hero for Nassau (who actually repelled a Christmas coup attempt by rebels and repelled a Spanish invasion with the fort when they tried to attack Nassau via the interior) - the man who ended piracy for good and brought commerce to Nassau. So, then of course Woodes has to remain the hero, the one who loves her and do anything for her in her eyes. In that sense Eleanor's death stnads for the complete end of piracy at New Providence and Nassau.

They tried to make it look hopeful at the end of this episde, but I'm betting that the alliance between Julius and Silver will sever next week. They just needed Julius to gather not just the slaves of New Providence, but a whole army of runaway slaves away from New Providence. Historically, under British rule after the end of the godlen piracy age, Nassau and New Providence became a refuge for runaway slaves from other islands, other colonies. They made them free citizens, and built a new Nassau melting pot with them. And I think that where Rogers failed in making a civlised Nassau with pardoned pirates, he will be one of the characters who helps a new alliance and Nassau rise from its ashes, together with Julius and imo Madi. 

While I do think she'll be Silver's wife, she's Eleanor's yougner "sister". So, then Madi is also a soul for the new Nassau. Regardless on how Madi survives, if she did survive, this event woudl have tremendous impact on her. Eleanor was the beautiful, older sister she looked up to, who was affected by the Rosario Raid and the loss of her "family" (mother, Madi and Maroon Queen). Madi now survived a similar raid, having lost the sister she began to reconnect with, who dreamed of love and just being safe and happy, and she is separated from Silver, Flint and the pirates. As is Billy who was cast out. Meanwhile Woodes lost the love of his life, completely failed in his first endeavour and knows he made it possible. He's in the position Flint was at the start of S3, except that Miranda was Flint's voice of non-capitulation of revenge, while Eleanor became the a beacon of hope and love and peace. And while I do think Woodes will end up in debtor's jail through Max's and Jack's contrivances, I also think he'll try to do something at some point to move towards the light, instead of going further down into hell.

Yeah, I know. I'm still a mess over Eleanor's death. I'll need a couple of healing episodes to get over that.

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RIP Eleanor Guthrie. I've not always appreciated her as she probably deserved, but I really liked her storyline the last two seasons. It's not easy to be a mostly passive character in a show full off fight-y badass pirates, especially when you're get an antagonistic role and are a female character. She was unarguably the lead alongside Flint and Silver, so it's a sign of the end. Although I was pretty surprised by her death, I hadn't expected that all and figured she'd somehow pull through. That was one brutal fight scene. And Flint lying to her was probably the greatest moment of the episode.

I still not entirely sure that Madi is dead. Although she did look pretty dead and it's hard to see how she could have lived I'm still holding off until we have a body.

The fight scene was cool. Silver is a stone cold badass.

I really like Julius and am interested in where they go with him.

I don't like Max's plan at all. They're going to sail a stolen ship full off pirates into Philadelphia? That just seems set up for failure. And I never really liked the idea of Deus Ex Grandpa, even when he first was mentioned. It all seems a bit too convenient and I was actually glad when the plot-line seemed dropped the first time. And I don't really get why Jack would even listen to Max.

I wonder how Silver will handle Madi's apparent demise and if he'll realize how right Billy might actually have been.

Overall, a fantastic hour of television.

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That was a wonderful hour of TV. I love how unpredictable the show remains to be as I would never have pegged Madi and Eleanor to die here. Talk about making deaths count though - it was such a random and horrible way for them both to die but perfectly demonstrated the utter chaos of war. That image of the house burning with Flint looking on felt like the beginning of the final act - you just know this is where Silver changes. Similarly, I think it was well handled that Rogers actions came back to haunt him. That scene where he looked on, unnerved yet undaunted, as that woman was presumably going to be raped came full circle when he realised the very personal cost of his actions.

Max summed it up brilliantly when she said "no one has gained a thing yet everyone has lost so much"

Not sure she had much right to give Jack a load of shit (everyone is angry) and it was great to see Jack snap back at her. Other than her anger it really wasn't the best opening gambit to try and sell a plan to someone. Although I agree with the poster above that her plan doesn't appear to be that good a one. Would Eleanor's grandfather really have the means and motivation to storm into Nassau?

So many well acted scenes - pretty much everyone got a chance to have one of their best moments. However despite the great work all around it still amazes me just how sublimely talented Toby Stephens is. Every little twitch spoke volumes from him and it honestly feels like there is no Toby Stephens between Flint and the viewer. The actors playing Silver and Rackham are very strong but there's still that element of "the actor playing silver is showing us he's broken". Stephens just takes it to another level and I'm left wondering why he isn't a bigger star than he is. I suspect it's because he's quite picky and possibly prefers stage but producers are missing a trick if they aren't headhunting this guy for the next big TV drama.

This show is throwing down a gauntlet so early in the year for others to best. The fact it's the final season which is often the most difficult for shows is even more impressive.

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

Would Eleanor's grandfather really have the means and motivation to storm into Nassau?

No. But he can hurt him in the pocket, in contacting creditors and HMS navy to possibly arrest him for debt repyament failure or treason on the crown (dealing with the Spanish during war time). Eleanor thought she had something of value to put forward to her grandfather - national English hero Woodes and governor of Nassau - to acquire money to pay off the loans. Max will do the opposite. Heck, she might convince him to buy up all the debt and then tell Woodes - it's me you'll have to pay your debts to and that includes my governor. It's not gong to be a miliary move at all, but a financial and political one.

I do think it will come at a personal cost for both Max and Jack though, as one is out for revenge, partly over her fucking chair (which she took from Eleanor in the first place) and Jack still believes he can win against civlisation and get in the history books, and still isn't choosing Anne and another life somewhere else. As for Woodes... pretty sure he already feels emotionally bankrupted. Nassau without Eleanor will mean little to him. Ending up in debtor's jail somewhere will be only the externalisation of how gutted he feels on the inside. 

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6 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I do think it will come at a personal cost for both Max and Jack though, as one is out for revenge, partly over her fucking chair (which she took from Eleanor in the first place) and Jack still believes he can win against civlisation and get in the history books, and still isn't choosing Anne and another life somewhere else. As for Woodes... pretty sure he already feels emotionally bankrupted. Nassau without Eleanor will mean little to him. Ending up in debtor's jail somewhere will be only the externalisation of how gutted he feels on the inside. 

I wonder if Jack might end up making (inadvertently or not) the same deal Flint almost made with Lord Ashe. Giving himself up to the noose for the sake of Nassau/revenge.

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

So many well acted scenes - pretty much everyone got a chance to have one of their best moments. However despite the great work all around it still amazes me just how sublimely talented Toby Stephens is. Every little twitch spoke volumes from him and it honestly feels like there is no Toby Stephens between Flint and the viewer. The actors playing Silver and Rackham are very strong but there's still that element of "the actor playing silver is showing us he's broken". Stephens just takes it to another level and I'm left wondering why he isn't a bigger star than he is. I suspect it's because he's quite picky and possibly prefers stage but producers are missing a trick if they aren't headhunting this guy for the next big TV drama.

Yes, Stephens is sublime... an eye twitch, a softening in the eyes, the corner of his mouth... it's subtle and yet so readable and natural.

Originally I wasn't so impressed with Hannah New's acting for the first season... but she came fresh out of her acting masters. And I found that from S3 she started to become really good in acting with her face in a manner that felt way way more natural, vulnerable, even when her character closed up and didn't want to reveal emotions, it was way better than the first 2 seasons. Pretty sure she had some mentoring from Stephens with whom she had to work quite a bit the first 2 seasons. It paid off in her fight for life scene in 4x06 and her death scene with Stephens. Not only was it visceral, but the fear against that Spaniard - sheesh that got to me. And then she was so small, so fragile in her death scene without overdoing it.

Luke Roberts (Woodes) is another actor who can work magic with his face.

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25 minutes ago, GallowKnight said:

I wonder if Jack might end up making (inadvertently or not) the same deal Flint almost made with Lord Ashe. Giving himself up to the noose for the sake of Nassau/revenge.

Well, I thought so from the trailer originally before the season began to air. Now I'm not so sure. There's a picture out there of Jack sitting smug with his legs upon a desk or table and Featherstone at a window in what looks to be Max's old room in the brothel. So that appears to me he thinks he has Woodes by the balls. Still think he won't win that race though, not alive anyway. 

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11 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Yes, Stephens is sublime... an eye twitch, a softening in the eyes, the corner of his mouth... it's subtle and yet so readable and natural.

Originally I wasn't so impressed with Hannah New's acting for the first season... but she came fresh out of her acting masters. And I found that from S3 she started to become really good in acting with her face in a manner that felt way way more natural, vulnerable, even when her character closed up and didn't want to reveal emotions, it was way better than the first 2 seasons. Pretty sure she had some mentoring from Stephens with whom she had to work quite a bit the first 2 seasons. It paid off in her fight for life scene in 4x06 and her death scene with Stephens. Not only was it visceral, but the fear against that Spaniard - sheesh that got to me. And then she was so small, so fragile in her death scene without overdoing it.

Luke Roberts (Woodes) is another actor who can work magic with his face.

Hannah New definitely improved a lot. Initially she had that slighlty wooden face thing that I always associate with the "keira Kneightley" school of acting which I think must be a training thing as it tends to be british actresses who start with it. Could be something so simple as being trained for stage moreso than film. There's a quote from someone in acting about "stage requires acting with the body, TV the face, and film the eyes". But yes, the fact that wasn't even noticeable anymore shows how she came along.

I'm pretty sure having someone like Stephens around is a benefit for any actor sharing a scene with him.

Roberts can also transmit a lot - the keel haul scene by him was excellent seeing him struggle with maintaining order yet frustrated and a little in awe of Blackbeard.

 

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13 minutes ago, red snow said:

Hannah New definitely improved a lot. Initially she had that slighlty wooden face thing that I always associate with the "keira Kneightley" school of acting which I think must be a training thing as it tends to be british actresses who start with it. Could be something so simple as being trained for stage moreso than film. There's a quote from someone in acting about "stage requires acting with the body, TV the face, and film the eyes". But yes, the fact that wasn't even noticeable anymore shows how she came along.

I'm pretty sure having someone like Stephens around is a benefit for any actor sharing a scene with him.

Roberts can also transmit a lot - the keel haul scene by him was excellent seeing him struggle with maintaining order yet frustrated and a little in awe of Blackbeard.

 

Yes! Perfect way of putting it! I actually initially thought she looked somewhat like Keira Knightley (the pout) in S1, but she grew to have her own face ('kk-face completely gone in S2), and from S3 she had enough under her belt to act with her eyes in scenes where she was present, but hardly had a line for minutes and hand to stand there with her hands before a frock. I know many viewers considered her to have no acting material then, a prop next to Roberts. But I never felt it was any less her story, because you could surmise what Eleanor was thinking or feeling if you simply watched her. Basically they wrote Eleanor's character according to the abilities of the actress. Almost like a pouty brat who was free in movement and impulsive (that allows for over-acting) to a physically more restricted, subdued personality without losing her presence. 

That keel haul scene was superb acting - 10 minutes almost with just 3 lines. And Ray Stevenson had his face covered even most of the time. All he had was a shot of him grinning with all those prostethics on.

That's actually another thing I like about this show, in its directing and writing - while they have plenty of dialogue scenes, they dare to go for "silent" scenes too, or where only one actor has dialogue, and the other(s) remains silent, and yet is/are not a prop, such as the Woodes-Flint scene on the beach where he rejects the pardon offer. 

What I find surprising is that Roberts is a bit of an unknown. I know plenty of BBC work of Stephens since the 90s where he has a male lead role. Luke Roberts' career was a to me unknown doctor series and in movies or series he started with fighting scenes (which is his background). He's trained in several historical sword fighting and uses that in combination with his acting to get sword fight roles, such as the Arthur Dayne gig for GoT. And where he had maybe just one scene in a series or a few scenes in a few episodes of high production series only 3 years ago. And then you have that keelhaul scene, and in respect to the Arthur Dayne role where I didn't care so much about the 2 swords wielding, he carried most of that scene with just his eyes visible through the slit of a helmet. Maybe that's how he managed to amp up the ability to act with the eyes - as a screen actor, having little dialogue in fighting scenes wearing a helmet.

Anyway, this show is far too much underrated: good storytelling, great writing, great dialogues, great cinematography and great action scenes, love for the characterizations, the ability to kill off their darlings, and one of the few that gets better with every season. There aren't that many series around or that I remember where you have all that in one package. I can count them on one hand.

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I forgot Luke Roberts was Arthur Dayne!

I also didn't know he can actually do a lot of that sword-fighting. Guy needs to be a Jedi or something.

I agree that this is easily one of those shows that should be doing so much better. Maybe the promotion wasn't so good and the first few epsiodes weren't instantly engaging but since then it's been a showcase for how to make excellent tv from top to bottom.

Much like how Deadwood and Rome had me following various actors' work afterwards I'll be trying to keep an eye out for what some of them do next. I also think the quality of the direction, and the action scenes will mean a few of the directors from the show will be getting movie gigs soon (some of them may already have movies under their belt)

I know it's a different production team but I hope Starz foster the same kind of quality with american gods. Outlander isn't my cup of tea but I can't argue that they go all-out in making a quality production.

 

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5 hours ago, red snow said:

Hannah New definitely improved a lot. Initially she had that slighlty wooden face thing that I always associate with the "keira Kneightley" school of acting which I think must be a training thing as it tends to be british actresses who start with it. Could be something so simple as being trained for stage moreso than film. There's a quote from someone in acting about "stage requires acting with the body, TV the face, and film the eyes". But yes, the fact that wasn't even noticeable anymore shows how she came along.

Well Keira Knightley eventually got an Oscar nomination, so there's real hope for Hannah to become a big actress.

1 hour ago, red snow said:

I forgot Luke Roberts was Arthur Dayne!

I also didn't know he can actually do a lot of that sword-fighting. Guy needs to be a Jedi or something.

I agree that this is easily one of those shows that should be doing so much better. Maybe the promotion wasn't so good and the first few epsiodes weren't instantly engaging but since then it's been a showcase for how to make excellent tv from top to bottom.

Much like how Deadwood and Rome had me following various actors' work afterwards I'll be trying to keep an eye out for what some of them do next. I also think the quality of the direction, and the action scenes will mean a few of the directors from the show will be getting movie gigs soon (some of them may already have movies under their belt)

I know it's a different production team but I hope Starz foster the same kind of quality with american gods. Outlander isn't my cup of tea but I can't argue that they go all-out in making a quality production.

 

The actor who played Charles Vane already got a couple of villanous roles, though I hope to see him in more positive roles as well.

Bear McCreary also needs to be praised. His soundtrack has been outstanding, and he does an equally phenomenal job on Outlander. I don't if he did any movies, but it would be nice to hear his style on the big screen. Considering that so far he's done the soundtrack for at least 3 Starz shows, I image he might be involved in future shows, as well.

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9 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Yes! Perfect way of putting it! I actually initially thought she looked somewhat like Keira Knightley (the pout) in S1, but she grew to have her own face ('kk-face completely gone in S2), and from S3 she had enough under her belt to act with her eyes in scenes where she was present, but hardly had a line for minutes and hand to stand there with her hands before a frock. I know many viewers considered her to have no acting material then, a prop next to Roberts. But I never felt it was any less her story, because you could surmise what Eleanor was thinking or feeling if you simply watched her. Basically they wrote Eleanor's character according to the abilities of the actress. Almost like a pouty brat who was free in movement and impulsive (that allows for over-acting) to a physically more restricted, subdued personality without losing her presence. 

That keel haul scene was superb acting - 10 minutes almost with just 3 lines. And Ray Stevenson had his face covered even most of the time. All he had was a shot of him grinning with all those prostethics on.

That's actually another thing I like about this show, in its directing and writing - while they have plenty of dialogue scenes, they dare to go for "silent" scenes too, or where only one actor has dialogue, and the other(s) remains silent, and yet is/are not a prop, such as the Woodes-Flint scene on the beach where he rejects the pardon offer. 

What I find surprising is that Roberts is a bit of an unknown. I know plenty of BBC work of Stephens since the 90s where he has a male lead role. Luke Roberts' career was a to me unknown doctor series and in movies or series he started with fighting scenes (which is his background). He's trained in several historical sword fighting and uses that in combination with his acting to get sword fight roles, such as the Arthur Dayne gig for GoT. And where he had maybe just one scene in a series or a few scenes in a few episodes of high production series only 3 years ago. And then you have that keelhaul scene, and in respect to the Arthur Dayne role where I didn't care so much about the 2 swords wielding, he carried most of that scene with just his eyes visible through the slit of a helmet. Maybe that's how he managed to amp up the ability to act with the eyes - as a screen actor, having little dialogue in fighting scenes wearing a helmet.

Anyway, this show is far too much underrated: good storytelling, great writing, great dialogues, great cinematography and great action scenes, love for the characterizations, the ability to kill off their darlings, and one of the few that gets better with every season. There aren't that many series around or that I remember where you have all that in one package. I can count them on one hand.

Musketeers and Peaky Blinders are like that.  So was Ripper Street.  Orphan Black is great in terms of Maslany's tour de force of creating so many very different, identifiable characters who are all clones of each other, but the plotting sometimes is flawed.

Like Black Sails, Orphan Black and Musketeers, too, wisely planned to have a set of seasons and then quit when the story is finished.

I have no idea if they plan to do the same with Peaky Blinders -- it would be good if they do.

Outlander will be milked for as long as can be, probably -- especially since it has a novel series to rely on -- but the novels got progressively ridiculous and boring as it went on.

The Last Kingdom?

And Ripper Street is finished, whether it wanted to be or not.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Well Keira Knightley eventually got an Oscar nomination, so there's real hope for Hannah to become a big actress.

The actor who played Charles Vane already got a couple of villanous roles, though I hope to see him in more positive roles as well.

Bear McCreary also needs to be praised. His soundtrack has been outstanding, and he does an equally phenomenal job on Outlander. I don't if he did any movies, but it would be nice to hear his style on the big screen. Considering that so far he's done the soundtrack for at least 3 Starz shows, I image he might be involved in future shows, as well.

Knightley improved over time - it's like they have to unlearn something to get better almost.

Bear is a bit of a TV genius with BSG and Walking Dead's theme too. Looks like his biggest film score so far was cloverfield lane. I often wonder whether TV pays better - does the composer get a one off fee or do they get money every time they use it? Or if not better it's more steady work as most of the shows he does has evolving scores or one-off additions.

 

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On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 6:07 PM, Relic said:

No way Madi is dead. Off screen "deaths" don't count. She'll be back for dramatic effect soon enough. 

Yeah... that's what I'm thinking too

Every actor getting love in this thread deserves it... but the name I don't see is Jessica Parker Kennedy.... when you see her on Colony --with an American accent-- you realize how young she is... Max commands so much respect that I'm thinking that there aren't a whole lot of actors that age who can pull that role off....

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