US Politics: Redefining National Security

[denstorebog]

29 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

Count me in for Team fuck petty SJW PC policing shit. My "kind" fucking hates dictators posing as liberators.

And digital age torch and pitchfork Scarlett Letter assigning mobs.

Trump 2016: Because modern-day fascism is preferable to being chastised by a couple of zealous Tumblr users over your use of racial slurs.

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

11 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

China only has 5.4% of the debt in large part because the US Goverment purchased so much of its debt through the quantitative easing, an alternative to but essentially the same as printing money. The total debt is $19.9 T,  and the largest portion is owed to Social Security, $2.8 T, which is why Republicans talk about the coming crisis in social security and the need to cut benefits. They don't see how it's going to be paid back.

The two biggest foreign debt holders are Japan and China, with $1.1 T and $1.04 T respectively.  Ireland, the Cayman Islands and Luxembourg are #3, 4 and 7, holding a total of $756 B. They are assumed to be basically surrogates for sovereign funds that don't want to be identified. So if China dumped it's bonds, and the world's sovereign funds are already up to their necks, what country is going to step in? As I said, interest rates could be manipulated up, meaning the US would have a heck of a lot more interest to pay. Add to that the fact if all kinds of imported goods go up by a chunk of money, inflation will come roaring back.

I recently read an interview with the world's most successful long term bond investor, and he points out the velocity of money is at a long term low, 1.44 times, which indicates that interest rates should continue to remain low for a long time. But other investment houses are warning of the possibility of a disruptive Black Swan event occurring under Trump, meaning all bets would be off about where the US economy and maybe the world economy go.

Interesting arguments! Well, if interest rates start going up here in Sweden, a lot of people (and our economy at large, maybe even the banking sector) could end up in an very bad position due to our housing bubble. I wonder how well the American economy is prepared for a similar hike. 

4 hours ago, S John said:

It's crossed my mind more than once recently that I'd take W back with open arms in exchange for Trump.  Truly amazing to me to have reached that point in such short order.  

I was at Obama's first inauguration in 09 as I lived in DC at the time.  Thinking back to that day, I would have been hard pressed to come up with a scenario in which George W Bush nostalgia would be a real thing within the decade.  

Though I have always felt that George W the person is actually a good and decent man, up until the surprise Trump victory I felt pretty sure that he would probably go down as the worst president I would see in my lifetime due to the colossal Iraq blunder.  The fallout of which we are still dealing with today.  

I try to keep the dramatics to a minimum.  Humans have a tendency to believe that the current time period, no matter what it is, is one of extreme historical importance and I think that often leads to unnecessary angst amongst those who pay attention to politics.  I think ideological mouthpieces of any stripe always feel that we are in, or about to be in, a very dire circumstance if the 'sheeple' don't wake up and see things thier way immediately.  It makes perfect sense that this type of rhetoric appeals to many as we are all the stars of our own lives and we like to have a dramatic backdrop, but I've always had a healthy skepticism of political doomsayers and partisan zealots.  

In the context of early 21st century America, it has been my feeling that that passionate rhetoric of gloom and doom from America's political fringes always had more than a tinge of hyperbole.  That things really aren't, and won't get THAT bad, because the times that we live in simply do not call for it.  The world is never without problems or conflicts but, in general, we have been enjoying a period of overall peace and prosperity where the great powers have more incentive to cooperate than fight and therefore Americans and Europeans have gone many decades without having to deal with the drastic and violent collisions of major powers that characterized the entire world during the early part of the 20th century.  The world has become increasingly more connected and throughout my lifetime I have not had the sense that we would be likely to see a reversal of that.

In order to win the presidency Trump had to paint a very bleak picture of affairs.  What I would consider to be smallish blips in a historical sense (Islamic terror, immigration, current state of race relations, slower than liked economic recovery, etc) Trump successfully elevated to a standing of existential importance in the minds of his supporters (Ironically ignoring and denying real issues of actual existential importance such as climate change).

I think his team recognized early on that people wouldn't vote for this guy unless things were really bad and folks felt that they not only had nothing to lose by voting for him, but risked disaster if they didn't.  They set about creating the narrative that everything is shit.  Considering that everything was not shit, I am still more than a little dumbfounded that it actually worked.  

For all his faults W was a completely different animal than Trump and much more in keeping with the traditional American optimism and faith in our institutions.  When W was president, I didn't like many of his moves but I never felt that there was a chance that we wouldn't get past it.  I was certainly glad when his term ended but in spite of some partisan vitriol directed toward him in his last days in office I never felt that he wouldn't respect the peaceful transfer of power.  And at no time during W's presidency did I feel that the future of American democracy was in doubt.

With Trump at the helm, for the first time in my life I'm starting to buy into the drama.  I have no idea what is going to happen and I'm legitimately worried about the future of this country, and the world by extension.  So yea, very weird to say, but I think I kinda miss W. 

One could argue that hugely important historical events haven't actually been that rare throughout history though. I think that, looking at the past couple of centuries, it would be possible to make the case that it is actually the reversal that has been pretty rare; people getting to spend their entire lifetimes without something significant and/or disastrous happening in their societies. For example, this period of peace and prosperity that you mention has only lasted for a little over 25 years now, that might be a great length of time for a dog or a cat, but definitely not for a human. 

[DunderMifflin]

9 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

Trump 2016: Because modern-day fascism is preferable to being chastised by a couple of zealous Tumblr users over your use of racial slurs.

Nice try, but not quite hyberbolic enough for the internet.

The pc dictators need to be portrayed as just a guy who one day politely asked a frothing at the mouth klan member to not say a thing.

And everybody knows with Trump you gotta go straight to the Hitler comparison when you want to guilt someone into hating him as much as you do.

 

[mormont]

1 minute ago, DunderMifflin said:

Nice try, but not quite hyberbolic enough for the internet.

The pc dictators need to be portrayed as just a guy who one day politely asked a frothing at the mouth klan member to not say a thing.

Which is a pretty accurate characterisation of what you're complaining about.

The word 'dictator', on the other hand, has a specific meaning that doesn't apply to anyone who can be characterised as a 'SJW'. Actual dictators are people like, well, Hitler.

If on the one hand you complain about Trump/Hitler comparisons and on the other you use the phrase 'PC dictators', you've demolished your own complaint.

[DunderMifflin]

7 minutes ago, mormont said:

Which is a pretty accurate characterisation of what you're complaining about.

The word 'dictator', on the other hand, has a specific meaning that doesn't apply to anyone who can be characterised as a 'SJW'. Actual dictators are people like, well, Hitler.

If on the one hand you complain about Trump/Hitler comparisons and on the other you use the phrase 'PC dictators', you've demolished your own complaint.

Yeh, but it isnt even remotely accurate though.

 

And I don't even know what you are on about with the dictator stuff.

[mormont]

2 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

And I don't even know what you are on about with the dictator stuff.

It's not complicated. You complain about Trump being compared to a dictator, immediately after calling other people 'dictators'. You can't have it both ways. Either dictator comparisons are acceptable, or they're not.

[Ran]

"Acceptable for me, but not for thee," said the white nationalist from his safe space.

[DunderMifflin]

27 minutes ago, mormont said:

It's not complicated. You complain about Trump being compared to a dictator, immediately after calling other people 'dictators'. You can't have it both ways. Either dictator comparisons are acceptable, or they're not.

This acceptability thing that you've completely made up on the spot has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese delivery truck.

I don't feel like listing them all so I'll just go for the most obvious.

You are wrong when you say the word dictator has a specific meaning. It has multiple meanings.

One for example is a machine meant to record dictation.

More importantly another meaning, and the way I meant it is - a person who tells people what to do in an autocratic way or who determines behavior in a particular sphere - 

 

 

- 

 

 

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

8 hours ago, karaddin said:

Funny you should mention that, lets take a look at the sitemap for whitehouse.gov

Hmm, something looks funny, I thought there were 3 branches and they were all important. What does the web archive show from the morning before the inauguration?

Oh, The Judicial Branch! I guess that's not important when you've got someone you can trust in charge! I had seen comments on what went missing from the whitehouse page before, but I hadn't seen this particular one before today. I didn't discover it myself, but have (obviously) just verified it myself), was removed with his batch of site updates.

I know there are still plenty here who either refuse to accept how dire the situation is or are rubbing their hands together at what is happening, but I don't really care if they laugh at me for being 'alarmist' - this outcome is not out of the question.

Karradin,

You misinterprete my post I'm not saying it's out of the question.  I'm saying if it happens the cost will likely be the US itself.  Some rump state that calls itself the US may end up existing, but it will not be the US as we know it today.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Well, the wailing and gnashing of teeth certainly seems to be reaching a crescendo around here.

In the end, though, as apocalyptic it is all made to sound, I wonder how many soccer moms, or blue collar factory workers or suburban based insurance salesmen sweating 9-5 to make a living, actually care all that much about whether some guy from Iraq or Somalia is turned away at the airport.

So far, Trump is doing pretty much exactly what he promised to do during his campaign. Pretty novel, for a politician. But then, he isn't a politician, is he. And that's got the talking heads all confused and trying to figure out how the heck to respond to it all.

 

[Aemon Stark]

So far he's proving that he's willing to engage in just as much outright racism, unwarranted attacks on neighbours, and arbitrary executive actions as his critics expected. And living down to expectations. 

Oh, and who sweats to work "9-5" to make a living? That 40 hour work week must be pretty intense!!

[denstorebog]

43 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

You are wrong when you say the word dictator has a specific meaning. It has multiple meanings.

One for example is a machine meant to record dictation.

Shit, son, now you're just wasting our time.

[mormont]

38 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

This acceptability thing that you've completely made up on the spot has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese delivery truck.

I don't feel like listing them all so I'll just go for the most obvious.

You are wrong when you say the word dictator has a specific meaning. It has multiple meanings.

It does, but since some of them are clearly not relevant you'd have to be desperate to mention, for example, that it can refer to a machine meant to record dictation - oh.

38 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

One for example is a machine meant to record dictation.

Oh well.

38 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

More importantly another meaning, and the way I meant it is - a person who tells people what to do in an autocratic way or who determines behavior in a particular sphere -

- like Donald Trump. Good, so you've come down on one side of the issue and we can all forget your earlier grumbling about the Hitler comparisons. Moving on.

7 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I wonder how many soccer moms, or blue collar factory workers or suburban based insurance salesmen sweating 9-5 to make a living, actually care all that much about whether some guy from Iraq or Somalia is turned away at the airport.

This is the first time I've heard insurance salesmen described as 'sweating to make a living'. Evokes misty memories of our forefathers toiling away in their shirt sleeves over a particularly difficult liability clause, hammering away under the hot noon sun...

Anyway, the answer to that is surely 'quite a lot'. Unless you have some sort of information suggesting that the people demonstrating at the airports do not include soccer moms, blue collar factory workers, and insurance salesmen. They certainly include lawyers, though I'm not really clear on why a lawyer's opinion isn't as important as a soccer mom's.

[Inigima]

17 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Well, the wailing and gnashing of teeth certainly seems to be reaching a crescendo around here.

In the end, though, as apocalyptic it is all made to sound, I wonder how many soccer moms, or blue collar factory workers or suburban based insurance salesmen sweating 9-5 to make a living, actually care all that much about whether some guy from Iraq or Somalia is turned away at the airport.

So far, Trump is doing pretty much exactly what he promised to do during his campaign. Pretty novel, for a politician. But then, he isn't a politician, is he. And that's got the talking heads all confused and trying to figure out how the heck to respond to it all.

 

How many of them care about whether people have to follow the law, do you think?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 hours ago, DunderMifflin said:

 

Count me in for Team fuck petty SJW PC policing shit. My "kind" fucking hates dictators posing as liberators.

And digital age torch and pitchfork Scarlett Letter assigning mobs.

So, what to you call the asshats barring legal residents from the United States pray tell?

[Free Northman Reborn]

2 minutes ago, mormont said:

It does, but since some of them are clearly not relevant you'd have to be desperate to mention, for example, that it can refer to a machine meant to record dictation - oh.

Oh well.

- like Donald Trump. Good, so you've come down on one side of the issue and we can all forget your earlier grumbling about the Hitler comparisons. Moving on.

This is the first time I've heard insurance salesmen described as 'sweating to make a living'. Evokes misty memories of our forefathers toiling away in their shirt sleeves over a particularly difficult liability clause, hammering away under the hot noon sun...

Anyway, the answer to that is surely 'quite a lot'. Unless you have some sort of information suggesting that the people demonstrating at the airports do not include soccer moms, blue collar factory workers, and insurance salesmen. They certainly include lawyers, though I'm not really clear on why a lawyer's opinion isn't as important as a soccer mom's.

Well, I will leave that mystery for you to figure out then, if my examples seem so strange to you.

The point being how high up the list of the average person's daily priorities this issue really is when it comes to voting day in 2 years time.

 

[DunderMifflin]

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

So, what to you call the asshats barring legal residents from the United States pray tell?

Asshat seems good enough to me.

[DunderMifflin]

11 minutes ago, mormont said:

It does, but since some of them are clearly not relevant you'd have to be desperate to mention, for example, that it can refer to a machine meant to record dictation - oh.

Oh well.

- like Donald Trump. Good, so you've come down on one side of the issue and we can all forget your earlier grumbling about the Hitler comparisons. Moving on.

Finally we agree on something.

You admitting you were wrong about the meaning(s) of dictator is good enough for me. I can deal with your petty putdown attempts.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

24 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Well, the wailing and gnashing of teeth certainly seems to be reaching a crescendo around here.

In the end, though, as apocalyptic it is all made to sound, I wonder how many soccer moms, or blue collar factory workers or suburban based insurance salesmen sweating 9-5 to make a living, actually care all that much about whether some guy from Iraq or Somalia is turned away at the airport.

So far, Trump is doing pretty much exactly what he promised to do during his campaign. Pretty novel, for a politician. But then, he isn't a politician, is he. And that's got the talking heads all confused and trying to figure out how the heck to respond to it all.

 

Yeah, none of those folks have shown up at protests.

[mormont]

7 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The point being how high up the list of the average person's daily priorities this issue really is when it comes to voting day in 2 years time.

I think most people would expect 'low'. But the reaction to this has been much stronger than most people expected, so maybe not that low. Maybe the issue itself isn't as important as what it says about Trump, his government, their agenda and their competence. The government's competence is usually fairly high up the list of the average voter's priorities come voting day.