BloodRider Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 17 hours ago, Squab said: Doesn't the right of the people to keep and bare arms make it difficult for the government or military to rule the whole country via martial law. Lots of potential militia and guerilla fires to fight, and that's not even considering those in the military who support trump. Except the 2nd amendment types are bent over ready to take the fucking that Trump is giving the constitution. They will never lift a trigger finger to do shit to stop this. They are a joke, down to their very core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 What Trump does domestically is up to him and the American people. But Trump should be very careful with his foreign policy. He is on confrontation course with major allies and if he thinks he simply can start blackmailing and bullying a number of countries because so far those countries always gave in, he is very wrong. NATO: mutual beneficial, real facts: defense budget of each NATO member should reach 2% of GDP BY 2020! on its way! Furthermore: without US bases all over the world no more power projection capability. But if Trump wants to give Germany back Ramstein and re-open a base in Albania, I have no problem with that. Trade: everyone loses in a trade war which Trump seems to be willing to start. Additionally it will further alienate supposed close allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: What I'd like to know is how Trump, the executive branch, can disregard the orders of the judicial and not suffer any consequences. What rights do the courts have in this matter? Very little. The power to impeach and remove is expressly granted to the Legislative Branch. What the Courts can do is issue orders. Without the Executive Branch to enforce those orders... the problem should become obvious. This is why Pres. Trump's admiration of Andrew "the Genocide" Jackson makes me deeply unconfortable. That said, when (not "if" when), Trump ignores a direct court order we will see the shit hit the fan big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Very little. The power to impeach and remove is expressly granted to the Legislative Branch. What the Courts can do is issue orders. Without the Executive Branch to enforce those orders... the problem should become obvious. This is why Pres. Trump's admiration of Andrew "the Genocide" Jackson makes me deeply unconfortable. That said, when (not "if" when), Trump ignores a direct court order we will see the shit hit the fan big time. Can you further explain what you mean by this? I think I had convinced myself that my outrage and fear about a Trump presidency was overblown that I'm almost having a hard time now grasping just how bad it currently is and how bad it is likely to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Very little. The power to impeach and remove is expressly granted to the Legislative Branch. What the Courts can do is issue orders. Without the Executive Branch to enforce those orders... the problem should become obvious. This is why Pres. Trump's admiration of Andrew "the Genocide" Jackson makes me deeply unconfortable. That said, when (not if when), Trump ignores a direct court order we will see the shit hit the fan big time. Okay. In all seriousness, let's be real. Congress isn't going to suddenly grow a backbone and either impeach him or invoke the 25th. It's simply not going to happen. They don't have the balls to do it, nor the political will--his policies are everything they've dreamed of for the last 30 years, no matter how vicious and cruel. That leaves one option and we all know what it is and it's probably going to come to that. People like Trump and Bannon, who seem to be giddy with power, don't give it up once they have it. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 15 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: So, if a Police officer has someone pulled over for speeding and gets a call about a spree killing in progress you want that officer to finish writing the ticket because law enforcement should have no discretion in when they enforce the law? Further, if someone else is speeding on the way to the spree killing the officer should have to stop an ticket that speeder too, because, no discretion? The problem is not so much discretion in when laws are enforced (the example you cited is reasonable), but rather when there is discretion in which laws are enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRider Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 17 hours ago, sToNED_CAT said: They are there, but they are in minority. Most Breitbart readers could be best described simply as patriotic traditionalists. From what I saw, they want society and country to remain the same as in 80ties (not 50ties like some leftist think haha) The same description fits whole alt right. It's not some neonazi movement, it is simply an alternative to both corporate and libertarian (they don't really care much about small govt) republicans. I used the term patriots, because they combine what is traditionally thought as patriotism with economic patriotism too (both corporate and half of libertarian republicans don't care about later). I need to clear something up here. You are a liar. The alt-right is completely and utterly a Neo-Nazi movement. It came from the name of a Neo-nazti web site created by Richard Spencer, which he stated was an attempt to rebrand the Neo-Nazi movement to keep the ideas, but get away from the associations with the name. Again, lets be clear. You lie. Specifically, you lie for Neo-Nazis. You are they Kelly-Anne Conway of this board. Nothing you say can be trusted, as you will lie for the most deplorable people on the planet today. http://www.alternativeright.com/main/blogs/left-right/altright-and-its-enemies/ http://www.realcourage.org/2010/03/richard-spencer-alternative-right/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Commodore said: The problem is not so much discretion in when laws are enforced (the example you cited is reasonable), but rather when there is discretion in which laws are enforced. Commodore, If law enforcement has no discretion over "which laws they enforce" then they have to stop every speeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said: What I'd like to know is how Trump, the executive branch, can disregard the orders of the judicial and not suffer any consequences. What rights do the courts have in this matter? clearing quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 minute ago, BloodRider said: I need to clear something up here. You are a liar. The alt-right is completely and utterly a Neo-Nazi movement. It came from the name of a Neo-nazti web site created by Richard Spencer, which he stated was an attempt to rebrand the Neo-Nazi movement to keep the ideas, but get away from the associations with the name. Again, lets be clear. You lie. Specifically, you lie for Neo-Nazis. You are they Kelly-Anne Conway of this board. Nothing you say can be trusted, as you will lie for the most deplorable people on the planet today. http://www.alternativeright.com/main/blogs/left-right/altright-and-its-enemies/ http://www.realcourage.org/2010/03/richard-spencer-alternative-right/ Let us emphasize this. No - dare I invoke the cliche - appeasement of authoritarianism and racism. There is no "civil discourse" to be had and they will not "play by the rules". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Huh, they want society to be like what it was in the 80s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, BloodRider said: I need to clear something up here. You are a liar. The alt-right is completely and utterly a Neo-Nazi movement. It came from the name of a Neo-nazti web site created by Richard Spencer, which he stated was an attempt to rebrand the Neo-Nazi movement to keep the ideas, but get away from the associations with the name. Again, lets be clear. You lie. Specifically, you lie for Neo-Nazis. You are they Kelly-Anne Conway of this board. Nothing you say can be trusted, as you will lie for the most deplorable people on the planet today. http://www.alternativeright.com/main/blogs/left-right/altright-and-its-enemies/ http://www.realcourage.org/2010/03/richard-spencer-alternative-right/ Second QFT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Commodore, If law enforcement has no discretion over "which laws they enforce" then they have to stop every speeder. no I mean like, "we have decided not to prosecute marijuana crimes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Dr. P., CCLiT, Okay, the Judicial Branch is the weakest branch of Government. It has broad scope and and can write wide reaching orders but it has no enforcement mechanism of its own. The Department of Jusitice, US Marshals, the FBI are all part of the Executive Branch. Much of the rule of law that we depend up on comes from the deference the Executive has given to the Judiciary and the independence the Executive has given to it's Judicial enforcement arms. Hence, the arrest and charge of reporters on Inaguration day by people working for the US Department of Justice, was incredibly disturbing to me. During Andrew "the Genocide" Jackson's administration Chief Justice Marshall ruled that the Cherokee Nation had the right to rely upon pre-existing treaties with the US and that they couldn't be removed from their home. Andrew "the Genocide" Jackson said, "Mr. Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." Pres. Trump appears to love Andrew "the Genocide" Jackson. He is lionizing the Old Possum for a reason. He knows his biggest opposition will be the Courts. The Courts, if denied access to the Executive's Judicial enforcement arm will have very little direct power to make Pres. Trump do anything. It will demand a huge public outcry to give ignored orders force and impact. The Courts are a good place to go but recognize that their power is limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Quote Very little. The power to impeach and remove is expressly granted to the Legislative Branch. What the Courts can do is issue orders. Without the Executive Branch to enforce those orders... the problem should become obvious. This is why Pres. Trump's admiration of Andrew "the Genocide" Jackson makes me deeply unconfortable. That said, when (not "if" when), Trump ignores a direct court order we will see the shit hit the fan big time. Quote Honduras' coup is worth paying attention to not because the exact same scenario is likely to play out in the United States, but because it reveals how genuinely difficult it is to maintain constitutional politics in a presidential system. http://www.vox.com/2015/3/2/8120063/american-democracy-doomed American democracy is doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Dr. P., CCLiT, Okay, the Judicial Branch is the weakest branch of Government. It has broad scope and and write wide reaching orders but it has no enforcement mechanism of it's own. The Department of Jusitice, US Marshals, the FBI are all part of the Executive Branch. Much of the rule of law that we depend up on comes from the deference the Executive has given to the Judiciary and the independence the Executive has given to it's Judicial enforcement arms. Hence, the arrest and charge of reporters on Inaguration day by people working for the US Department of Justice, was incredibly disturbing to me. During Andrew "the Genocide" Jackson's administration Chief Justice Marshall ruled that the Cherokee Nation had the right to rely upon pre-existing treaties with the US and that they couldn't be removed from their home. Andrew "the Genocide" Jackson said, "Mr. Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." Pres. Trump appears to love Andrew "the Genocide" Jackson. He is lionizing the Old Possum for a reason. He knows his biggest opposition will be the Courts. The Courts, if denied access to the Executive's Judicial enforcement arm will have very little direct power to make Pres. Trump do anything. It will demand a huge public outcry to give ignored orders force an impact. The Courts are a good place to go but recognize that their power is limited. Well, that's not very encouraging. Thanks for that explanation, though. Now I understand his love affair with Jackson. So, what happens, aside from a constitutional crisis? Can the military intervene at the behest of the intelligence community and/or Congress? I'm not sorry to say that that would be infinitely preferable to the apparent coup d'etat and installation of an authoritarian government that Trump and Bannon are planning. Sorry, I don't mean to sound so pessimistic or dystopian. I'm simply following the evidence where it leads, and the ending isn't good no matter which way you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Martell Spy said: http://www.vox.com/2015/3/2/8120063/american-democracy-doomed American democracy is doomed On a long enough timeline every State's form of government is doomed. We may merely be looking at the end of our timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I called my House representative this morning and asked for impeachment proceedings. I really think it might be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 One in, two out. http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-signs-executive-order-reduce-regulations-n714151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Quote On a long enough timeline every State's form of government is doomed. We may merely be looking at the end of our timeline. I think the point of the article is that Presidential systems are more prone to it than parliamentary systems. And I hope not. Really not a fan of anarchy and violence, even if it meant we never have to see Ted Cruz on TV again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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