Eamonn the Dragonknight

Syrio was a Martell Agent

18 posts in this topic

 

I reckon Syrio is an agent of the Martell trying to recuit Arya (i dont know if this has been said before, but i can find it anywhere)...

Firstly, i think it's unlikely that Syrio = Jaquen. Syrio is a Water Dancer, which we can assume is part of the religion of the Father of Water, which would put him in opposition to the Many Faced God. Also, Syrio keeps telling Ayra that her sword is part of her and she cannot let it go, only for the House of Black & White to tell her she needs to abandon it. Clearly the ideology Syrio is teaching Arya is incompatable with what the Faceless Men teach.

Again, Syrio is a Water Dance and probably worships the Father of Waters. As with the Faith of the 7, i think we can assume that if there is a concept of a "Father" there will probably be a "Mother" counter-part. The likely belief in Water-Magic and a missing "Mother" tells me this religion probably comes from the Rhoynar; here we have Mother Rhoyne and the story of Prince Garin calling on the waters to rise up and wash away the Valyrians (Our missing mother and a bit of Water-Magic).

The other Forell in our story is Phario the Playwright, most famous to us for The Blood Hand, but he is also noted to be the author of Wroth of the Dragonlords, a play in which Prince Garin give a stirring pre-war speech (so we can assume Garin is the protagonist and the play is partial towards the Rhoynar above the Valyrians). Again, this points us towards the Forell's being Rhoynish. I think it is reasonable to assume this cultural connection with the Martell's and the line of Nymeria would place them on the side of the Martell cause.

If we also assume the Faceless Men are on the side of Aegon and Illyrio (they have old Targarian coins which probably came from the Golden Company from the days of Daemon Blackfyre), Syrio being a Martell agent makes Arya's story a lot more interesting. This would make her the subject of another proxy-war between Martell's and Illyrio, and it shows that she was considered valuable from very early in our story and that Doran wants her on his side (perhaps he wll make another play for her in a later book).

(Also, with Phario writing The Bloody Hand in "honour" of the Lannister envoy, the Mercy chapter gets a new layer as the play is probably ANOTHER manoeuvre by Doran; f*ck me is i know what that is though...)

* Credit to Preston Jacob's Faceless Man series for most of the facts in this theory. (I reckon the guy is brilliant!!)

Edited by Eamonn the Dragonknight

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Don't forget that Syria was First Sword to a previous Sealord of Braavos. It could have been the same Sealord who witnessed the marriage Pact between Martell and Targaryen.... timeline makes sense. In that case, Syrio would have met Oberyn then and established the connection. 

... I've always found it odd that a First Sword of Braavos is completely unknown in Kings Landing. 

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11 hours ago, Lost Umber said:

Don't forget that Syria was First Sword to a previous Sealord of Braavos. It could have been the same Sealord who witnessed the marriage Pact between Martell and Targaryen.... timeline makes sense. In that case, Syrio would have met Oberyn then and established the connection. 

... I've always found it odd that a First Sword of Braavos is completely unknown in Kings Landing. 

Actually, that was another thing i forgot to say...

We never hear where Ned finds Syrio. Since its probably not a Northerner (why would any of them know who he is), my guess would be that Ned went to the Robert's Master-At-Arms and asked for a recommendation.

That MaT just happens to be a Dornishman, Ser Aron Santagar...

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Your evidence for this is... what, exactly?   And why would the Martells have any interest whatsoever in the younger daughter of Ned Stark in the first place?

I have this bizarre theory that Syrio was a First Sword of Braavos who was forced into exile after his patron was ousted as Sealord.  He is eking out an existence in Kings Landing, and sees this gig as a way of getting ahead of making contacts.  Unfortunately, he winds up on the wrong side of a power struggle again, and figures losing is going to be fatal in any case, so commits suicide by Kingsguard.  Hey, at least it makes more sense than this. As George once said,sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

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10 hours ago, Nevets said:

Your evidence for this is... what, exactly?   And why would the Martells have any interest whatsoever in the younger daughter of Ned Stark in the first place?

I have this bizarre theory that Syrio was a First Sword of Braavos who was forced into exile after his patron was ousted as Sealord.  He is eking out an existence in Kings Landing, and sees this gig as a way of getting ahead of making contacts.  Unfortunately, he winds up on the wrong side of a power struggle again, and figures losing is going to be fatal in any case, so commits suicide by Kingsguard.  Hey, at least it makes more sense than this. As George once said,sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

The simple answer would be that Martell wanted a Ward from a great house for their later plans (their play for Myrcella shows that they do care about wards).

A more complicated answer would be that they were aware of her telepathic abilities and saw her as valuable for that reason (we're never told exactly when the Glass Candles began working, perhaps Marwyn saw into her mind).

I just find all of the associations Syrio has with the Rhoynar a bit to convenient. Then on top of this, Arya names her wolf after her hero, the Rhoynish Princess

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On 30/1/2017 at 8:05 PM, Lost Umber said:

... I've always found it odd that a First Sword of Braavos is completely unknown in Kings Landing. 

I doubt the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard gets mobbed by autograph hunters when he goes to Braavos

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1 hour ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

I doubt the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard gets mobbed by autograph hunters when he goes to Braavos

True.. but he's also not going to be able to teach ping pong in the Sea Lord's palace without someone knowing who he is. 

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On 1/2/2017 at 2:18 AM, Lost Umber said:

True.. but he's also not going to be able to teach ping pong in the Sea Lord's palace without someone knowing who he is. 

They did know who he was. And bear in mind he's an ex-First Sword, i.e. heading overseas and teaching rich kids how to slice cunts is probably the best he can hope for.

I forgot, what were we arguing about?

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10 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

They did know who he was. And bear in mind he's an ex-First Sword, i.e. heading overseas and teaching rich kids how to slice cunts is probably the best he can hope for.

I forgot, what were we arguing about?

I thought everyone believed he was a simple dancing instructor. Except Ned who must've thumbed the yellow pages to find him.

Were we arguing? I thought we were sharing divergent consensus. 

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On 4/2/2017 at 4:57 AM, Lost Umber said:

I thought we were sharing divergent consensus. 

Yeah butabout what? I refuse to scroll up and find out

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On 1/30/2017 at 6:40 AM, Eamonn the Dragonknight said:

Syrio keeps telling Ayra that her sword is part of her and she cannot let it go, only for the House of Black & White to tell her she needs to abandon it. Clearly the ideology Syrio is teaching Arya is incompatable with what the Faceless Men teach.

Wrong. Syrio was telling Arya a sword is an extension of her arm. The House of Black and White told Arya she couldn't keep her possessions. Those are two wildly different things and aren't incompatible at all. 

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@Eamonn the Dragonknight Interesting OP ser!

A Syrio/Martell Connection would certainly be cool. During Oberyns exile he trained in various fields, from earning links in The Citadel to forming a free company, I wonder if he ever felt the need to add a new dimension to his sword play? Water Dancer training could have certainly helped with The Red Vipers self enhancement aswell as his plans to come. We know the man is highly proficient using a Dornish spear in bo staff style, and we can assume he knows the adequate techniques for longswords/bastardswords etc. Perhaps the Red Viper and Syrio were old sparring partners? 

I've often wondered about Syrios backstory. The current Sealord of Braavos is Ferrego Antaryon - a man described as "sickly and failing" by the time of ADWD. Now, Sealords are supposed to serve for life, could Ferregos poor health thus be an indication for advanced age? If The Sealord is indeed elderly, wouldnt this signify that his old First Sword may have been Syrio? Our faviroute Water Dancer seems to be middle aged, how then did he leave the service of The Sealord he served? Could be some Martell string pulling but we cannot be sure. 

A possible argument against your theory is Syrios death. Syrio orders Arya to run while he stands and fights the guardsmen, apparently leading to dis demise. If he were working for House Martell, wouldn't he have tried to escape with Arya to ensure her return to Sunspear? Men in mail or plate may pose a problem in a fight, but are at a distinct disadvantage in a chase involving speed and elements of parkour, Syrio could have easily turned and escaped before he tangled with the heavily armoured Trant, had he wanted to, but apparently let heroic pride get in the way of his students further safety.

There is a topic by @Mithras, now archived, regarding the use of the words "Just So". A faviroute verbal "tell" by many people who have spent time in the Free Cities, aswell as a faviroute of plotters and planners all across Planetos (Saan, Illyrio, Pycelle etc). Our friend Syrio is a proponent of the term, so maybe a connection exists between he and one of the other main users of the term?

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On 1/31/2017 at 8:50 AM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

I doubt the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard gets mobbed by autograph hunters when he goes to Braavos

Oh snap!

On 2/3/2017 at 2:50 AM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

They did know who he was. And bear in mind he's an ex-First Sword, i.e. heading overseas and teaching rich kids how to slice cunts is probably the best he can hope for.

He was replaced and went to find his own way and see the world. Arya tells the kindly man that she thinks the sealord is dying by the chatter in the taverns. Since Syrio is retired it is reasonable to assume that the Sealord who hired him was a previous one. That means Syrio could have traveled all over the narrow sea and perhaps farther before heading to KL. In KL he is renowned enough to have a lord paramount and warden let him teach his daughter. 

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On 1/30/2017 at 5:40 AM, Eamonn the Dragonknight said:

* Credit to Preston Jacob's Faceless Man series for most of the facts in this theory. (I reckon the guy is brilliant!!)

Thanks for the topic @Eamonn the Dragonknight.  It is interesting to think about and thought provoking.  While I did enjoy reading this, and contemplating the various Preston Jacobs videos, I think that it comes down to the same thing.  Most of the theories are based on conjecture, or pasting together of random facts.  I know this might upset some, but it's just my opinion.  I think that theories like this, while interesting, are not very likely for one main reason:

I don't think that this is written so that only genius people can really understand what's going on.  I think that aSoIaF is an intriguing story that the average reader can follow and be challenged to a certain degree.  Of course, there is much much more beneath the surface if you're willing to dig--that's why we're all here, right?  

That said, I think that the readership has made Syrio into something of more importance than he was really intended to be--  A voice in Arya's head that helped her character develop and deal with hardships that she had to face.  Also, mainly as a means for her to escape capture in KL.

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On 1/31/2017 at 11:50 AM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

I doubt the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard gets mobbed by autograph hunters when he goes to Braavos

No but I bet he gets swarmed  by young and bold Bravos.

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How exactly could he "recruit" Arya? That's not how the game is played. If Martell wants Arya in Dorne, surely all he would do is make a reasonable betrothal offer, say between her and Trystane, to Ned; or just offer to foster her; or any number of other perfectly reasonable approaches. Why hire a Braavosi to teach her how to use a sword, in order to befriend her then, I'm guessing your suggesting, whisk her away, causing a national incident and angering one of the most powerful families in the kingdom? 

Theories like this are unnecessarily convoluted. 

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On 2/28/2017 at 7:44 AM, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Theories like this are unnecessarily convoluted. 

This is what happens when there is more than a half a decade between books and well over 25 years from series beginning to series end 

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On 31/01/2017 at 11:20 AM, Nevets said:

 Unfortunately, he winds up on the wrong side of a power struggle again, and figures losing is going to be fatal in any case, so commits suicide by Kingsguard.  Hey, at least it makes more sense than this. As George once said,sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

...but but but..... haven't we discerned by the end of Dance that Trant is really not all that of a fighter?  I mean Syrio DID beat like five other guys first, with a lead balanced stick? 

I hold hope that this cigar is more of a rich Cuban than your run of the mill cheapo...even if it is still in fact a cigar.

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