Lady Winterstark

Edric Daynes Parents??

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Has GRRM deliberately omitted information about who Edric's parents were as it might be important to the future story or are they completely unimportant? I'm surprised that we don't know what the Lord of Starfall was up to before and during Roberts rebellion or even his or his wife's name. They must have been around during Roberts Kingship as Edric is four years younger than Rob/Jon. Why is he holding back this information and The House Dayne words?

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House Dayne is one of two houses (the other is one of the Shett houses in the Vale) that claims to be at least 10,000 years old. The Daynes also have a magic sword. They are going to be very important. Though it's not certain that Edric's parents specifically will be crucial to anything. That could be more along the lines of Ned's mother, in that GRRM just didn't come up with the names at first because they aren't important to the story. Somebody once asked him who Ned et al's mother was and what happened to her, and he said. "Lady Stark. She died."

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Edrik is about 2 years younger than Robb and Jon.   When we first meet him (in SoS) he is 12, possibly almost 13.  At that point Jon has passed his fifteenth birthday, by perhaps 3-4 months. Sansa would also at this time be just a little over 12, or even still 11. (she was not yet 14 at the end of Dance).

Yes Edrik is VERY important - just not sure how.

I have a theory that he is in fact Ned's son via Ashara Dayne. The timing is right. - Ned was in Dorne about the time he was conceived.  Perhaps she IS Wylla - Jon and Ned's wet nurse.  Jon could be the son of Lyanna and Arthur Dayne.

Perhaps if one is into dualism Jon and Ned are two sides of the same coin needed to fight the Others. Ned is Day wielding the sword "Dawn" Jon is night wielding the sword "Ice."  they may need to fight one another - I hope not.

 

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12 minutes ago, Luddagain said:

Edrik is about 2 years younger than Robb and Jon.   When we first meet him (in SoS) he is 12, possibly almost 13.  At that point Jon has passed his fifteenth birthday, by perhaps 3-4 months. Sansa would also at this time be just a little over 12, or even still 11. (she was not yet 14 at the end of Dance).

Yes Edrik is VERY important - just not sure how.

I have a theory that he is in fact Ned's son via Ashara Dayne. The timing is right. - Ned was in Dorne about the time he was conceived.  Perhaps she IS Wylla - Jon and Ned's wet nurse.  Jon could be the son of Lyanna and Arthur Dayne.

Perhaps if one is into dualism Jon and Ned are two sides of the same coin needed to fight the Others. Ned is Day wielding the sword "Dawn" Jon is night wielding the sword "Ice."  they may need to fight one another - I hope not.

 

Your timing is way off.  Jon turns 15 shortly after he arrives at the wall, and 16 during his ranging.  Sansa is a month short of 13 when she marries Tyrion, which occurs before Arya meets Edric.  And Edric would have to be Jon's age to be Ned's son with Ashara, since she disappeared shortly after his visit to return Arthur's sword, which occurred shortly after Jon's birth.  So that's clearly not the case.

Clearly the Dayne family has some importance.  Their family words are deliberately withheld, and they have a sword of some significance.  I also think that Ashara's death is so suspicious that it leads to the conclusion that she is still alive  I also would not be at all surprised if Edric appeared in Arya's story again. possibly as a romantic interest.  He could also be the wielder of Dawn, which is likely going to have some sort of importance going forward.

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No I your timing may be out (or GRRM).  Sansa is still 13 when  she is in the Vale and goes DOWN the slope. Wikki lists her as 12 throughout CoK and SoS. She marries Tyrion  before her 13th birthday.   Now the Red Wedding was perhaps a month or so after her wedding.  Arya had been travelling with Sandor for perhaps a month and she had been with the brotherhood for two months - they did a bit of travelling. This suggests that Arya met Ned Dayne perhaps three months before the Red Wedding and therefore two months before Sansa's wedding.

At that point both Ned and Sansa were still 12.  Ned needs only to be three weeks older than Sansa for the time lines to work.

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1 hour ago, Luddagain said:

No I your timing may be out (or GRRM).  Sansa is still 13 when  she is in the Vale and goes DOWN the slope. Wikki lists her as 12 throughout CoK and SoS. She marries Tyrion  before her 13th birthday.   Now the Red Wedding was perhaps a month or so after her wedding.  Arya had been travelling with Sandor for perhaps a month and she had been with the brotherhood for two months - they did a bit of travelling. This suggests that Arya met Ned Dayne perhaps three months before the Red Wedding and therefore two months before Sansa's wedding.

At that point both Ned and Sansa were still 12.  Ned needs only to be three weeks older than Sansa for the time lines to work.

Edric Dayne was bron in 287 AC, making him up to a year younger than Sansa who was born in 286 AC. Ned Stark did not father any children outside of wedlock after returning to the war, so no Edric cannot be his son.

Robb was born in 283 as was Jon. Jon was a newborn-ish baby when Ned found Lyanna dying. He went straight to Starfall after tearing down the Tower of Joy. Any child of Ned and Ashara conceived at that point would have to have been born in 284.

Any child conceived at Harrenhal would be older than both Jon and Robb, being born in 282 AC. The only character who could possibly be Ashara Dayne's child from the Harrenhal debacle (and thus have even a slight chance of being Ned's kid) is the Pisswater Prince aka baby Aegon's stunt-double. That still required believing Ned would sleep with a girl and not marry her, which is very much not Ned. He had no betrothed and Brandon was still alive so there would have been no reason not to offer for Ashara, and there's little chance the Lord of Starfall would have objected to an alliance entirely in his daughter/sister's favor. 

Link for reference. Scroll down to years 286 and 287 for Sansa and Edric's birth listings.

 

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3 hours ago, Nevets said:

<snip

Clearly the Dayne family has some importance.  Their family words are deliberately withheld, and they have a sword of some significance.  I also think that Ashara's death is so suspicious that it leads to the conclusion that she is still alive  I also would not be at all surprised if Edric appeared in Arya's story again. possibly as a romantic interest.  He could also be the wielder of Dawn, which is likely going to have some sort of importance going forward.

I agree on Ashara being alive, or at least not dying when she supposedly did. 

I like to think their words relate to the Hightower words.

Young Ned wielding Dawn might not work though. Most kids in that age range can't handle a greatsword. Even if it's super-light the sheer size of it will mean you need superior skill to handle it well, which is probably why the Dayne family only lets their best fighters use it. Some people have suggested that Ser Gerold "Darkstar" Dayne was added in after GRRM abandoned the 5-year gap so that there would be a Dayne who could reasonably wield the family sword.

It's also been pointed out that "Dawn" is what ends the night (long nights in particular).

One of my pet theories is that Dawn is actually the sword of The Great Other, lost to men in the Battle for (the) Dawn, and given to House Dayne for safekeeping because at the time theirs was the southernmost keep in Westeros. Face it, if the Others get as far as Starfall, it's game over. Sub-theory: Dawn is the original Ice (Ice being a great name for an Other's sword). Because really, how does a house lose their ancestral sword? That's not something you just leave laying around. And we haven't heard of any Starks going to Valyria.

Edited by Lady Blizzardborn

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Jaime was appointed a KG at 15 and was a renowned swordsman. Ned Dayne was 12 when we met him when Arya was  10. At least two years seem to have passed. Arya has travelled for months  with the Brotherhood, then months with Sandor, then a month or so getting to bravos. She seems to have been a year or more in training. In other words by now in the story, by now young Ned is 14 going on 15. Jon has become a fine swordsman too by the time he was 16 or so.

 

I think there is also a MORAL dimension as to who can hold the sword.

 

The various calculation re ages are a bit wonky. We do not actually know the year or month when Arya met Edrik. All we know is that he was 12 which could mean anything from 12yr 1 monthto12yr 11months.  We know that Arya met Edrik several months before the red Wedding and about three to four months before Sansa's wedding. We can assume therefore that at the time of Sansa's wedding, She was 12 yr 11 months and Ned somewhere between 12 yrs 4 months to 13 yrs 3 months.

There is a four month window

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Isn't the calculation for Edric's date of birth rather clear? In 299 AC he is 12 years old (Appendix and Arya VIII of A Storm of Swords), in 300 AC he ist still 12 (Appendix of A Feast for Crows), which means he was born in 287 AC.

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I simply think that Lord Dayne was unnamed because he is unimportant. Let's face it, when you have a cast of hundreds in your books, you would struggle to come up with individual names for everyone.

I would like to find out more about House Dayne, but I presume, like winter, that its coming

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from what i recall, the only prerequisites to yielding Dawn are :

1A) Dayne blood

1B) Heroic/Unselfish deed(s).

says nothing about age, sex, ability to lift the sword, use it effectively at time of being named, etc.

Edric already has 2 heroic deeds under his belt (Mummers Ford and Battle at Burning Sept), at age 13? 14? was that decided above?

Morally, could not continue to support what Stoneheart is doing in the Riverlands if he was going to continue his path to SoM. that is why GRRM split them up, IMO.

 

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22 minutes ago, DigUpHerBones said:

from what i recall, the only prerequisites to yielding Dawn are :

1A) Dayne blood

1B) Heroic/Unselfish deed(s).

says nothing about age, sex, ability to lift the sword, use it effectively at time of being named, etc.

Edric already has 2 heroic deeds under his belt (Mummers Ford and Battle at Burning Sept), at age 13? 14? was that decided above?

Morally, could not continue to support what Stoneheart is doing in the Riverlands if he was going to continue his path to SoM. that is why GRRM split them up, IMO.

Not quite right.

In order for someone to take Dawn he must be the best Dayne knight and by definition a male . Ned is a Dayne but isn't a Knight yet. He also cannot take Dawn if he is unable to handle Dawn.

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort

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On Thu Feb 02 2017 at 1:41 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I agree on Ashara being alive, or at least not dying when she supposedly did. 

I like to think their words relate to the Hightower words.

Young Ned wielding Dawn might not work though. Most kids in that age range can't handle a greatsword. Even if it's super-light the sheer size of it will mean you need superior skill to handle it well, which is probably why the Dayne family only lets their best fighters use it. Some people have suggested that Ser Gerold "Darkstar" Dayne was added in after GRRM abandoned the 5-year gap so that there would be a Dayne who could reasonably wield the family sword.

It's also been pointed out that "Dawn" is what ends the night (long nights in particular).

One of my pet theories is that Dawn is actually the sword of The Great Other, lost to men in the Battle for (the) Dawn, and given to House Dayne for safekeeping because at the time theirs was the southernmost keep in Westeros. Face it, if the Others get as far as Starfall, it's game over. Sub-theory: Dawn is the original Ice (Ice being a great name for an Other's sword). Because really, how does a house lose their ancestral sword? That's not something you just leave laying around. And we haven't heard of any Starks going to Valyria.

I love your theory about the swords. Great theory! 

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2 hours ago, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said:

I love your theory about the swords. Great theory! 

Thank you.

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Given Dondarrion knighted Gendry, I think he would also have knighted Ned Dayne.

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37 minutes ago, Luddagain said:

Given Dondarrion knighted Gendry, I think he would also have knighted Ned Dayne.

But would any other House honor that? Dondarrion died an outlaw, so honoring any titles he gave would strongly imply their support of Beric as a legitimate lord. Of course that may well be true, but I don't think anything forces the Daynes to recognize such a title. And they could just as easily go ahead and knight Edric on their own, avoiding the controversy entirely.

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cgrav

The code of knightly honour indicates any knight can knight another - therefore just like Duncan the tall, Gendry is a knight as would be Edrik. In any case with the heir of Srarfall there is no doubt that some knight would easily be able to make ned Dayne a knight.

 

Recall also  the fairly obvious symbolism of Arthur and the sword in the stone ie if Ned is intended to be SoM then the sword will choose him.

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Re the swords

I think the original "Ice" is the sword of the others if that exists. They cannot be the SAME as Dawn since both swords were in use 4000 years ago.

We do not know where the original ice is but I think it is about to surface. I imagine it is buried deep in the Winterfell crypts.

"Dawn" may well be "Lightbringer" (fairly obviously given the name) or perhaps "Dawn" is a substitute for the original, just like Ned's ice is a substitute for the original.

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1 hour ago, Luddagain said:

 

Recall also  the fairly obvious symbolism of Arthur and the sword in the stone ie if Ned is intended to be SoM then the sword will choose him.

I agree nothing actually stops him from assuming such a role. I do doubt that he will, however, because he's only been on page for like two paragraphs and isn't in any active POVs that we know of. Seems like a significant character to be mentioned only in third person.

but knowing the Dayne/Targ thing, it's possible that the sword could choose someone of the same ancestry, of which we have a few choices. There might even be a "Dayne heiress" out there (no textual evidence yet).

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