US Politics: Papers, Please

[The Killer Snark]

Milo. so far as I'm aware, is not macing women for wearing Trump hats, beating unconscious men with metal poles, constantly engaging in violent riots, or attempting to shut down free speech in universities in furtherance of an extreme collectivist agenda. You know who behaves like that, don't you? Nazis. You are aware that Fascism is not a Right Wing ideology? You are aware that Antifa and DisruptJ20 are paid Soros thugs, and that the former openly serve the interests of both the German and Swedish governments, just for starters, in intimidating the public against questioning government policy?

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Werthead said:

Yes.

The Republicans have really self-immolated themselves here. Nixon put forwards a health care reform plan in 1970 (and again in 1974) that served as the basis for Republican health policy for several decades. Mitt Romney based his 2006 plan on that, which Obama basically borrowed for the ACA. Except when Obama stole the plan it mysteriously and quite inexplicably transformed into overnight from a sound conservative plan into a liberal plot to murder everyone and it had to be destroyed like it was the union of an unholy alliance between Stalin and Megatron.

So the Republicans have this issue where their default healthcare position (or at least one of the more credible ones) for the previous 40 years was hijacked by the Democrats and they refuse to take ownership of it again. I don't know why, under current trends they could just withdraw the ACA, re-impose it six weeks later labelled "Trumpcare" or "Republican Jesus Aid" with no changes whatsoever and their base will lap it up.

Well it seems to me that the Republican Party went full throttle against the ACA, betting they could destroy the Democratic Party over it.

And it maybe the case, they were able to inflict damage over it. But now it seems they didn't quite meet their strategic objective there.

And now there they sit, with their asses exposed. And me thinks, the Democratic Party ought to return the favor, looking to inflict maximum damage upon the Republican Party.

Now why would I just be so mean spirited against our lovely Republican Party? Oh I don't, know. Could it be that they do shit like associate themselves with Milo Nitwit?

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, The Killer Snark said:

 You are aware that Fascism is not a Right Wing ideology? 

Hey dude, I read Liberal Facism, by Jonah Shitbird, too. And the argument contained therein is bullshit. For one, right wing libertarianism isn't the only kind of right wing ideology out there.

Also, I think it's interesting that many of these so called neo-reactionary cranks that are part of the Alt-Right movement seemingly started their journey with extreme right wing libertarianism.

You sit there and decry the what the left has done. Yet, I don't see you having much to say about the people that actually give Nazi style salutes and support Trump. Not a word.

Quote

You are aware that Antifa and DisruptJ20 are paid Soros thugs, and that the former openly serve the interests of both the German and Swedish governments, just for starters, in intimidating the public against questioning government policy

No I'm not aware of that. Prove it.

I promise you right now, if this turns out to be some kind of wacko right wing conspiracy theory, I will not be kind in my response.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 hours ago, Swordfish said:

 

Do you disagree that assuming a rise in something with a single data point is problematic?

 

Of course, but the problem is there isn't much of anything to work off of. I checked various government websites, as well as independent websites that track hate crimes and that's the only piece of data I could find. You asked for data and I supplied what was available, so unless you're willing to invest some time to counter what I found, just admit that @Mexal and I have a point and take the L. 

14 hours ago, Swordfish said:

I doubt there has been a rise in antisemitism.  It's possible there has been a rise in incidents of antisemitic acts (ETA: Since the election of Trump, which was Mexals point), but I'm not prepared to make that jump without data.  What would be the point?

You're probably right in that the rate of incidents is greater than the rate of people who are becoming antisemitic, but a simple Google search would show you that both are on the rise.

14 hours ago, Swordfish said:

 

Uh.  No.  confirmation bias would indicate that.  Common sense has no way of determining what the likely reason is behind why they have not yet released the cause.  it is, after all, still an open investigation.

Common sense is also what leads people to believe that since it's snowing at their house, global warming doesn't exist. So... there's that.

 

No, years of experience tell me that. When I worked for Senator Klobuchar, we would regularly talk to the police when there was a case like this, and trust me, if the police had evidence that no crime was committed, they'd release it immediately. That fact that they know what happened, but are withholding it from the public, indicates to me that a crime likely occurred. 

So let's have a gentlemen's agreement. If I'm wrong, I'll come here and say it. If you turn out to be wrong, do the same. K?

15 hours ago, Swordfish said:

Has Bannon self identified as a member of the alt right?

 

As others have pointed out, when he ran Breitbart, he said he wanted it to be the platform for the alt-right, and worked hand in hand with the men who openly said that the term"alt-right" was a way to rebrand Neo-Nazism. What further evidence do you require? 

[Chaircat Meow]

Interesting piece about Michael Anton, pertinent to the question of the Trump administration's ideological composition wrt 'supremacy' and so on.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/02/americas-leading-authoritarian-intellectual-works-for-trump.html

[The guy from the Vale]

Antifa serving the German government? That's so absurd I don't know what to say. It's patently wrong. Now if you'd said that the NSU got cover from some people in the German government, there's some evidence for that. But then, that would be unfortunate for your position, wouldn't it?

[The Killer Snark]

You can go on to Youtube and check out the Internet for yourself in order to verify what I've been saying. It's common knowledge. You do realise that one of the primary affiliates of UC Berkeley is the Open Society Foundation? Again, not hidden knowledge. The Mayor of Berkeley is at this moment being threatened with criminal charges for deliberate negligence in taking no action against the development of the riots. The police were completely inactive for hours, and not one arrest was made. Who do you think may have been responsible for giving him that call?

[The guy from the Vale]

...Youtube. You know, I can also go on Youtube and have somebody tell me the Earth is flat, no human was ever on the moon, or that contrails are dangerous poison spray. 

So, just because something is on Youtube, no, it's not common knowledge. It might easily just be another conspiracy theory. I need corroborating evidence beyond that.

[Quijote Light]

Bwahahahaha! Bwahahahaha! You can go on YouTube! Bwahahahaha!

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, The Killer Snark said:

You can go on to Youtube and check out the Internet for yourself in order to verify what I've been saying. It's common knowledge. You do realise that one of the primary affiliates of UC Berkeley is the Open Society Foundation? Again, not hidden knowledge. The Mayor of Berkeley is at this moment being threatened with criminal charges for deliberate negligence in taking no action against the development of the riots. The police were completely inactive for hours, and not one arrest was made. Who do you think may have been responsible for giving him that call?

I don't want to go searchin through fuckin youtube to find some video that could be made by any old nitwit. Nor do I care to through every nutty right wing conspiracy website to find this stuff.

This sort of trash waste my time and waste everybody elses. I don't think any of us appreciate that.

Now, if you want to make these arguments, then provide the links.

[The Killer Snark]

It's not up to me to reeducate people, merely to make necessary counter arguments to a prevalent political mood among the Left that for years on end has been both dangerously insular and in many cases both totalitarian and criminal. I can be as brief as I choose in my voiced protest. I am fed up of doing research of my own and adding links to the long essay that I'm writing. I have not seen such a load of rubbish in my life as what I've encountered on this thread in defense of the rioters. If you refuse to condemn them utterly in your attempts to paint the Right as being the antagonists, I have a right to pull people up on it.

[Lily Valley]

31 minutes ago, The Killer Snark said:

You are aware that Antifa and DisruptJ20 are paid Soros thugs, and that the former openly serve the interests of both the German and Swedish governments, just for starters, in intimidating the public against questioning government policy?

LOLOLOLOL!  Oh dear.  I had someone on my feed stating that Soros was responsible for knitting and mailing out all our pink hats for the women's march.   Thanks for the giggle.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Ok.  So I've quietly reflected away from social media conspiracy theories and here are my 10 biggest problems with the Trump administration so far.  It actually turns out that a lot of them aren't ideologically based.

1.  The callous disregard for truth.  It is said that all politicians lie, and perhaps that is true, but this administration has a penchant for presenting the verifiably fictional (Bowling Green what?) as fact, or, to borrow a term "alternative fact".  

2.  The lack of respect for the First Amendment (which is First for a reason).  The First isn't just about religion (though that is an important part of it).  It's also about assembly (critical), press (crucial), and speech (fundamental).  I would even argue that the religious part of the text in fact naturally follows from the freedoms of speech and assembly.  

3.  The seemingly profound, willful and gleeful ignorance of everything, combined with a willingness to change lives with a stroke of a pen (thinking of Yemen as much as anything).  

4.  The use of Twitter to conduct foreign policy, or in fact anything.

5.  The willingness to renege on (sometimes ancient) obligations that we have both to people who live here and to our allies.  

6.  The willingness to retaliate against individuals, on social media and elsewhere, who do not toe the line.

7.  The failure to divest from conflicts of interest and the opportunities for kleptocracy; also, nepotism.

8.  Russia.

9.  The bill that I'm paying so that Mrs. Trump and her young son can continue to reside in New York.

10.  The continued stoking of our divisions as a country through (deliberately or not) tone deaf responses to things like the Holocaust Remembrance, MLK day, Black History Month.  There is no reaching across the aisle, only fear mongering on both sides, and it is sad. 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, The Killer Snark said:

It's not up to me to reeducate people, merely to make necessary counter arguments to a prevalent political mood among the Left that for years on end has been both dangerously insular and in many cases both totalitarian and criminal. I can be as brief as I choose in my voiced protest. I am fed up of doing research of my own and adding links to the long essay that I'm writing. I have not seen such a load of rubbish in my life as what I've encountered on this thread in defense of the rioters. If you refuse to condemn them utterly in your attempts to paint the Right as being the antagonists, I have a right to pull people up on it.

Well, you know, other people on  these threads do provide links.

Now if you are going to sit here and make these kind of outlandish claims, I don't think it's asking much to provide your proof.

Also, I have made it clear, as well have others, that I don't condone the initiation of violence against others or the wanton and willful destruction of property (though I wouldn't exactly be upset if some Nazi or alt-right goon took a swing at me,  to be honest).

But, also, I don't approve the College Republican Party inviting somebody like Milo to speak. Now, in my book, they can invite whomever in the hell they want. But, they also need to take responsibility for the company  they keep. And I don't approve of the little facist and racist in the alt-right movement either.

[TheKitttenGuard]

Since there had been a lot Nazis tall recently came upon this article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/02/03/trumpisms-gleichschaltung/

Two sections I found interesting:

Quote

Nixon’s moves were eventually countered by the liberal wing of the US government. The result was his resignation. This saved the liberal republic that was the United States. Given the weakness of today’s liberalism—and the fact that they are much closer in philosophy to the right wing than the Left—it seems unlikely that liberals will be able to stop the advance towards fascism we are currently witnessing. Philosopher Ernst Traverso discussed in his most recent book the notion that the rise of fascism in Twentieth century Europe was partially due to the failures of liberalism; its economic failures, its rejection of the Left and accommodation of the Right, and its use of horrible violence to maintain its colonies and power at home. Those who argue that Trumpism is a direct result of the neoliberal capitalism prior to the US election of 2016 have that historical argument in their favor

Quote

Another tendency among the liberal establishment is to discount the potential of the Trump-Bannon duo. This attitude assumes permanence to the US Constitution and its much-lauded systems of checks and balances. Furthermore, it also assumes a certain allegiance to that document and the system its words hold in place by those in power, no matter what party they belong to. This purposely naïve narrative ignores the ongoing reality in Washington. It is a reality that has seen the power of the president expand not just in arithmetic terms but in geometric ones the past couple of decades. What began with FDR during World War Two has continued under the auspices of national security, with the growing consolidation of presidential power drastically expanding since 9-11. If one adds the complete control of the Congress by a sycophantic and soulless Republican party marked only by an unparalleled and unprincipled lust for power and money all too willing to follow Trump’s authoritarian march, the remnants of that constitution are in serious danger. There comes a time when liberalism (especially this current version) must put up or die the spineless death its actions have always solicited.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

34 minutes ago, The Killer Snark said:

You can go on to Youtube and check out the Internet for yourself in order to verify what I've been saying. It's common knowledge. You do realise that one of the primary affiliates of UC Berkeley is the Open Society Foundation? Again, not hidden knowledge. The Mayor of Berkeley is at this moment being threatened with criminal charges for deliberate negligence in taking no action against the development of the riots. The police were completely inactive for hours, and not one arrest was made. Who do you think may have been responsible for giving him that call?

Ooooh I know which video you're talking about.  It's that one that comes right after the one you linked about proof that Obama is a demon, right?  

Seriously, how do people like you even function in real life?

[The Killer Snark]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Ooooh I know which video you're talking about.  It's that one that comes right after the one you linked about proof that Obama is a demon, right?  

Seriously, how do people like you even function in real life?

Nope,l I never did post a link to anything saying Obama is a demon. He was, however, the worst President in US history, with a record for Middle Eastern carnage outweighing even Bush Jrs, and I'm always amused by how respected he is among a Left that wilfully ignores the travel and immigration bans Obama himself conducted, while his administration was responsible for drawing up the travel ban list currently being implemented by Trump. He left the US economy trillions of dollars in debt, destabilised the middle class with useless institutions such as Obamacare and constant taxes, deported more migrants than any other President in history, pernitted mass corruption of the DNC and FBI and the centralisation of media with state, took massive foreign bribes to keep rich terrorist nations from terror checklists, and won a Nobel Peace Prize in spite of spending every day of his eight years at war. Not to mention his authorisation of assassinations of US citizens outside of a war context. I could go and on. The most illiberal President in US history - a perennial darling of the Left!

[Einheri]

23 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

(though I wouldn't exactly be upset if some Nazi or alt-right goon took a swing at me,  to be honest).

 

Trust me, you don’t want that to happen. My dad used to work in the Norwegian State Railways, and a colleague of his – not a small or weak man by any measure – only barely made it through after some scrawny ass junky, who had made a commotion on the train, took punch at him that hit his temple and knocked him unconscious. I was still a kid back then, so this event was what made me start to question the BS way violence is portrayed in Hollywood.

[LongRider]

38 minutes ago, The Killer Snark said:

It's not up to me to reeducate people,

Good thing because you're doing a piss poor job of it. 

[The Killer Snark]

4 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Good thing because you're doing a piss poor job of it. 

Then take responsibility and go and educate yourself.