"Lyra and Jory are with our mother," and The Great Northern Conspiracy

[Nevets]

26 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I don't believe it is reasonable to leave their families, smallfolk and lands abandoned to occupation and the threat of additional raiding from Ironmen. After the red wedding, it was the duty of both Galbart and Maege to return to their homes and secure their respective domains. 

Deepwood Motte had already been taken by this point, and in any case is on the wrong side of territory controlled by Bolton allies.  Bear Island is in no more danger than usual.  They are accustomed to fighting off raiders, so I doubt Maege's presence is required.

 

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

It’s a bit of a stretch but it appears the clan chieftains use ravens or Jon had sent out messages via riders.    If Jon sent out riders to the chieftains, the only way the chieftains could send messages to Bear Island would be boat?

What's wrong with communicating by boat?  Bear Island presumably has plenty, and I expect there are fishing villages along the shore south of the Wall.  I expect there is a decent amount of traffic between them, and Bran's presence would be big news.  And I expect that the clans, or at least their leadership, are fully aware that he is still alive.

[Clegane'sPup]

2 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Look, guys, I think you are not analysing this situation correctly.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your post.

The Red Wedding occurred toward the end of 299.  Robb sent Galbart & Maege off to Howland before the Red Wedding.  Robb had planned to meet Howland’s guides on the first day of the new century [year 300].

The Red Wedding happened in SoS. If that be true Lady Maege and Galbart been missin’ through FfC & DwD which equates to approximately how much time?

I'm curious. Thanks.

[Clegane'sPup]

17 hours ago, Nevets said:

What's wrong with communicating by boat?

There is nothing wrong with communicating by boat. I was merely trying to figure it out and you have done nada to help me.Thanks.

 

@Nevets I was rereading the thread and it appeared to me my comment might have sounded snarky. I should have put in emoji's. The tone was intended to be playful, like a whiny little kid.

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I don't believe it is reasonable to leave their families, smallfolk and lands abandoned to occupation and the threat of additional raiding from Ironmen. After the red wedding, it was the duty of both Galbart and Maege to return to their homes and secure their respective domains. 

Not if they take their duty to their King as above their duty to their families and smallfolk. Also, I don't for a moment believe the "they couldn't communicate" theory. They can and have been communicating with their families. Do you think Robett Glover has been gathering men in White Harbor without Gallbart's knowledge or instruction? Do you think Lyanna and Allysane have not been given instructions by Maege herself?

Maege and Gallbart remain in hiding, probably because they prefer for Roose to consider them dead or missing. Roose may be concerned that they know too much about Robb's will or Robb's final instructions to his lords.

They don't need to be present in their homelands to still orchestrate a conspiracy to retake the North. They will emerge when the time is right. And that right time has just about arrived. Once the Greatjon is broken free, the time will be here.

[Clegane'sPup]

8 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Maege and Gallbart remain in hiding, probably because they prefer for Roose to consider them dead or missing.

Good point.

[Curled Finger]

I've been following this discussion since it started.  Now I think I can weigh in on a little of it.  We all wonder what the hell Maege and Galbart are doing.   I submit to you that they are doing what they were told to do with the post knowledge of the casualties and losses of the Red Wedding in direct relationship to whatever pre RW knowledge they possessed of Robb's Will.  I don't know if they have it as it seems they were sent off on a suicide mission or at least a mission wherein capture was a very real possibility.   Why would they take a document of such importance when Robb said he was sending them with verbal instructions and fake written documents?  They may be waiting for the Will to arrive as I agree, their 1st duties are to their homes.  This document may be extremely important to the security of their homes.  

Since there is no physical way for Ravens to fly to and from Greywater Watch, word of mouth and/or signs has to be the mode of communication.  I would think there would be some dream messaging going on too.   A sign could be anything from a smoke signal high upon a mountain to a certain horse traveling in a certain direction between certain places.   These people are not idiots.   If I could dream this up they could certainly come up with something far more elaborate.  Don't forget that the Crannogmen and probably the Mormonts as well are magical people.  HR is supposed to be able to breathe mud for crying out loud and run on leaves.  For all we know he's got a network of tunnels or trees to travel by.  And The Crannogmen are supposed to be guerrilla warriors.  Waiting is part of that game.  If the Starks didn't particularly like the Boltons why would anyone else?  Just sayin', these are very dangerous times in a very dangerous place.   

Considering little Lyanna has been acting as Lady of Bear Island for a few months it stands to reason that Alysanne felt it was imperative to strike out when she did.  We see what Alysanne is capable of as well as the will and mouth of little Lyanna.   At 1st read I took Lyanna's response to Stannis to mean that he would not be accepted as her king under any circumstances.   Stark is her king which is a suitable reply if she just wants Stannis to leave Bear Island alone.  Even if there is no Stark to fit the bill.   Buys some time to gather forces if needed.  It's clear the Mormont family was a big part of Robb's future plans.  With that thought in mind why wouldn't Maege's oldest daughters, likely warriors all, be with her as she left home to support their Lord?  For all it's worth...

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, Nevets said:

Deepwood Motte had already been taken by this point, and in any case is on the wrong side of territory controlled by Bolton allies.  Bear Island is in no more danger than usual.  They are accustomed to fighting off raiders, so I doubt Maege's presence is required.

 

What's wrong with communicating by boat?  Bear Island presumably has plenty, and I expect there are fishing villages along the shore south of the Wall.  I expect there is a decent amount of traffic between them, and Bran's presence would be big news.  And I expect that the clans, or at least their leadership, are fully aware that he is still alive.

Maybe you are right, but I don't see Maege saying f@$! 'em, the girls can fend for themselves. Just cause Glover's keep and Tallhart's keep fell doesn't mean mine will. 

I would agree that the Liddel chiefs know Bran is alive. Whether he spread the word and exposed Bran to increased danger is debatable. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Not if they take their duty to their King as above their duty to their families and smallfolk.

Which king? The king is dead. His trueborn brothers are presumed dead. His presumably legitimized brother and chosen successor is Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. 

As stated in the OP, through Jon, the storyteller suggests that Galbart and Maege should have gone to free Deepwood Motte...

Quote

But my fathers bannermen have wives and children to protect,

Jon I, Dance

And that's what Robett was trying to do in White Harbor. Why should we expect different from Galbart and Maege? Galbart was unwed and had no children but he despaired for his brother...

Quote

"The ironmen have my castle and now the Lannisters hold my brother," Galbart Glover said, in a voice thick with despair.

Catelyn IV, Storm 35

Presumably, he would have tried to liberate his castle and protect his heirs. 

5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Also, I don't for a moment believe the "they couldn't communicate" theory. They can and have been communicating with their families. 

Please explain how. Back and forth by ship between the Iron Islands and Cape Kraken? Overland past Barrowtown? Or by glass candle? 

5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Do you think Robett Glover has been gathering men in White Harbor without Gallbart's knowledge or instruction?

Yes. Do we have any indication in the text, as opposed to speculation (even reasonable speculation), that Robett or Wyman know that Maege and Galbart were not at the red wedding or otherwise survived? 

5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Do you think Lyanna and Allysane have not been given instructions by Maege herself?

As I suggested in the OP, I suspect Maege and her other daughters (Superman's parents) may have gone to Bear Island with Galbart to secure Bear Island and to retake Deepwood Motte. What I am wondering is where they are now. 

5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Maege and Gallbart remain in hiding, probably because they prefer for Roose to consider them dead or missing. Roose may be concerned that they know too much about Robb's will or Robb's final instructions to his lords.

But Galbart and Maege do not have to remain cowering at Greywater Watch to remain in hiding from Roose. 

5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

They don't need to be present in their homelands to still orchestrate a conspiracy to retake the North. They will emerge when the time is right. And that right time has just about arrived. Once the Greatjon is broken free, the time will be here.

No, they do not have to be present, but they do have to have lines of communication. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I've been following this discussion since it started.  Now I think I can weigh in on a little of it.  We all wonder what the hell Maege and Galbart are doing.   I submit to you that they are doing what they were told to do with the post knowledge of the casualties and losses of the Red Wedding in direct relationship to whatever pre RW knowledge they possessed of Robb's Will.  I don't know if they have it as it seems they were sent off on a suicide mission or at least a mission wherein capture was a very real possibility.   Why would they take a document of such importance when Robb said he was sending them with verbal instructions and fake written documents?  They may be waiting for the Will to arrive as I agree, their 1st duties are to their homes.  This document may be extremely important to the security of their homes.  

Since there is no physical way for Ravens to fly to and from Greywater Watch, word of mouth and/or signs has to be the mode of communication.  I would think there would be some dream messaging going on too.   A sign could be anything from a smoke signal high upon a mountain to a certain horse traveling in a certain direction between certain places.   These people are not idiots.   If I could dream this up they could certainly come up with something far more elaborate.  Don't forget that the Crannogmen and probably the Mormonts as well are magical people.  HR is supposed to be able to breathe mud for crying out loud and run on leaves.  For all we know he's got a network of tunnels or trees to travel by.  And The Crannogmen are supposed to be guerrilla warriors.  Waiting is part of that game.  If the Starks didn't particularly like the Boltons why would anyone else?  Just sayin', these are very dangerous times in a very dangerous place.   

Considering little Lyanna has been acting as Lady of Bear Island for a few months it stands to reason that Alysanne felt it was imperative to strike out when she did.  We see what Alysanne is capable of as well as the will and mouth of little Lyanna.   At 1st read I took Lyanna's response to Stannis to mean that he would not be accepted as her king under any circumstances.   Stark is her king which is a suitable reply if she just wants Stannis to leave Bear Island alone.  Even if there is no Stark to fit the bill.   Buys some time to gather forces if needed.  It's clear the Mormont family was a big part of Robb's future plans.  With that thought in mind why wouldn't Maege's oldest daughters, likely warriors all, be with her as she left home to support their Lord?  For all it's worth...

Presumably, the king's proclamations and other legal documents would have remained with him. I mean, why would he have sent that stuff to Greywater Watch? Maege and Galbart knew his intention, but the papers they were carrying were false orders. 

I am assuming that Maege and Galbart presumed Bran and Rickon were dead. And they would have learned eventually that Jon, regardless of Robb's wishes, was Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Robb legitimized him, and indicated his preference for Jon to succeed him, but he still hadn't asked the Night’s Watch to release Jon from his vows. 

[bemused]

OK, here's the can of worms as I see it..

Maege, Lyra and Jory could be one of 3 places, Bear Island, GWW or with the forces Robbett Glover has been gathering at/around White Harbor.

I don't think that Barbrey Dustin and her brothers are actually supporters of Roose. but are playing a double game, so it would have been very possible for the Mormonts to travel (incognito, of course) from coast to coast, if they chose above the Neck. (The same would go for Galbart)

On 2/5/2017 at 7:37 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Presumably, the king's proclamations and other legal documents would have remained with him. I mean, why would he have sent that stuff to Greywater Watch? Maege and Galbart knew his intention, but the papers they were carrying were false orders

Re: the will / decree - I don't think it went to GWW or was ever at The Twins.(I've posted the following in more detail in another discussion)

1. At Tristifer's tomb, Robb and Cat discuss whether Jeyne might be pregnant and argue over Robb wanting to name Jon as his successor. Robb believes that if he dies and Jeyne is pregnant, even if he names Jon, Jon would never try to usurp Robb's child. (This implies that Robb trusts that Jon would either act as regent or name the child his heir.) Cat is adamant that she would never support Jon. Robb leaves her in anger. 

2. As they journey onward, Robb barely speaks to Cat, but he rides up and down the column talking to one or another of his various lords and officers. (Not just passing the time of day, IMO) They are riding through marshy territory across the river from GWW (such terrain as Howland's scouts might move through easily) and sometimes Robb rides out scouting alone with Grey Wind. Unusually risky behaviour for the young king, unless he's sending messages back and forth with Howland.(This is when/how Robb would have sent word to Howland to watch for Maege and Galbart)

3. Jason Mallister comes to meet Robb's contingent while they're still in Hag's Mire, bringing the Captain of the Myraham, who tells of Balon's death, Euron, etc. .. Robb asks the Cpt. to wait outside and Mallister will escort him to his ship after their council .. promises the Cpt. will be rewarded.

4. Robb lays out his battle plans at this council. He is very certain of what part Howland is to play, which suggests he has been liaising with Howland's representatives (or even Howland himself ?) ... He commands that Cat be "kept safe" at Seagard for the duration of the war. This means that not only will she be safe, but unable to argue against or interfere with Robb's plans, should he be killed in battle. (During the scene, Robb points out for us that the Ironborn will be squabbling over their succession, and Cat's thoughts (again, for our benefit) hark back to when she acted against Robb's orders about Jaime. Robb is avoiding either possibility.)

5. At the end of the council he says... “One more matter. Lord Balon has left chaos in his wake, we hope. I would not do the same. Yet I have no son as yet, my brothers Bran and Rickon are dead, and my sister is wed to a Lannister. I’ve thought long and hard about who might follow me. I command you now as my true and loyal lords to fix your seals to this document as witnesses to my decision.”  ... He doesn't request, but commands what Cat's role will be and that his bannermen witness his decision re: his succession.

6. Though many of us think the will went with Robb to the twins, I want to point out that the Myraham would be travelling south along the coast, from Seagard to Oldtown. The Captain has been assured that he will be rewarded, and he displays a willing attitude to Robb. ... It would be easy for the Captain to stop at the mouth of the river that passes Riverrun (Tumblestone?), and put off a Mallister courier taking the will to Jeyne and the Blackfish.(Or even act as courier himself) It would be logical for Robb's Queen (and possible heir) to have possession of his will. He makes the will because he plans to be riding into battle immediately after the wedding, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have it with him, where it could be lost or destroyed.

7.  With Jeyne possibly/probably falling into Lannister hands (We'll likely find out in the TWoW prologue) I think the will is with the Blackfish, and his scornful attitude to Jon in his exchange with Jaime is misdirection. I don't think he'd let it fall into Lannister hands..

8. It's quite possible that the document not only names Jon but makes reference to Robb's plan on how to release Jon from his vows. Robb seemed to be aware that there was some, or a precedent for that, though more precedent existed for a legalized bastard to rule. I think he would have taken care of both matters. Robb obviously had given the whole matter a lot of thought, and was trying to satisfy all contingencies beforehand.

(In this SSM, I doubt George is referring to the release of Barristan, but probably older cases.

 http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Nights_Watch_Oath )

So the Greatjon, Maege, Galbart Glover, Jason Mallister, Edmure and probably Raynald Westerling all knew the contents, and at least some of them would know where it was sent, if it was sent... (If Reynald Westerling survived, there's a potential for others to know, depending on who might have rescued him..)

On 2/5/2017 at 7:29 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Do we have any indication in the text, as opposed to speculation (even reasonable speculation), that Robett or Wyman know that Maege and Galbart were not at the red wedding or otherwise survived? 

Yes, I think so, in the fact that while Galbart despaired over Robbett's capture earlier - in ADWD when speaking to Davos ... 

"Glover. Your seat was Deepwood Motte."

"My brother Galbart's seat. It was and is, thanks to your King Stannis. He has taken Deepwood back from the iron bitch who stole it and offers to restore it to its rightful owners.

.. Robbett expresses no reciprocal despair over Galbart's whereabouts and "was and is" implies he knows very well that Galbart survived the red wedding.

I think if Lyra and Jory had gone south with their mother, there would have been some mention of them. I don't think there's a chance that Maege would have left Bear Island under Lyanna's command and not even solely under Alysanne.. Looking at her conversation with Asha in ADWD...

 "Five, we were. All girls. Lyanna is back on Bear Island. Lyra and Jory are with our mother. Dacey was murdered."
"The Red Wedding."
"Aye." Alysane stared at Asha for a moment. "I have a son. He's only two. My daughter's nine."

...Alysanne would have been highly pregnant when Robb called the banners (If the boy is two he was born in 298). Considering the frequency with which women die in childbirth Alysanne wouldn't have been left alone. My bet is that both Lyra and Jory stayed and have joined Maege since her return..(or she has joined them, but is lying low). The first letters Stannis sent out asked/ demanded that he be recognised as King. The Mormonts were not about to swear to him so they had Lyanna answer. It's unlikely Stannis would go to the trouble of making war on a child off on some island, when he had more pressing concerns.

The clans never bent the knee, but agreed to help Stannis for the sake of "Ned's little girl", opening a door for Alysanne to join under the same terms.. as an ally, not a subject.

On 2/5/2017 at 1:29 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

I don't for a moment believe the "they couldn't communicate" theory. They can and have been communicating with their families. Do you think Robett Glover has been gathering men in White Harbor without Gallbart's knowledge or instruction? Do you think Lyanna and Allysane have not been given instructions by Maege herself?

Maege and Gallbart remain in hiding, probably because they prefer for Roose to consider them dead or missing. Roose may be concerned that they know too much about Robb's will or Robb's final instructions to his lords.

I agree with this. We've been shown or told of many means of communication. Everyone wants the news, even in normal circumstances. Umbers use clan lands for grazing and contact is made, both habitually have watchers out because of raiders.. and Umbers are working with Manderly along the White Knife... there are boats, riders, signal fires, traders (real or otherwise) bearing news (and perhaps messages).. ravens for those who can, or can safely use them...There's no shortage of means of communication.

There's a good chance Roose knows exactly what Maege and Galbart know, and would not want them to live to tell it. Robb has a meeting with him at the twins which we were not privy to, because Cat was only there for part of it.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

5 hours ago, bemused said:

OK, here's the can of worms as I see it..

Maege, Lyra and Jory could be one of 3 places, Bear Island, GWW or with the forces Robbett Glover has been gathering at/around White Harbor.

I don't think that Barbrey Dustin and her brothers are actually supporters of Roose. but are playing a double game, so it would have been very possible for the Mormonts to travel (incognito, of course) from coast to coast, if they chose above the Neck. (The same would go for Galbart)

How would Maege and Galbart know they could trust Barbrey? Overland they only would have had time to travel to the northwest once and then back, right? 

5 hours ago, bemused said:

Re: the will / decree - I don't think it went to GWW or was ever at The Twins.(I've posted the following in more detail in another discussion)

1. At Tristifer's tomb, Robb and Cat discuss whether Jeyne might be pregnant and argue over Robb wanting to name Jon as his successor. Robb believes that if he dies and Jeyne is pregnant, even if he names Jon, Jon would never try to usurp Robb's child. (This implies that Robb trusts that Jon would either act as regent or name the child his heir.) Cat is adamant that she would never support Jon. Robb leaves her in anger. 

2. As they journey onward, Robb barely speaks to Cat, but he rides up and down the column talking to one or another of his various lords and officers. (Not just passing the time of day, IMO) They are riding through marshy territory across the river from GWW (such terrain as Howland's scouts might move through easily) and sometimes Robb rides out scouting alone with Grey Wind. Unusually risky behaviour for the young king, unless he's sending messages back and forth with Howland.(This is when/how Robb would have sent word to Howland to watch for Maege and Galbart)

Isn't this just a guess? I'm not saying you are wrong, but I don't recall any suggestion of such a meeting in the text. 

5 hours ago, bemused said:

3. Jason Mallister comes to meet Robb's contingent while they're still in Hag's Mire, bringing the Captain of the Myraham, who tells of Balon's death, Euron, etc. .. Robb asks the Cpt. to wait outside and Mallister will escort him to his ship after their council .. promises the Cpt. will be rewarded.

4. Robb lays out his battle plans at this council. He is very certain of what part Howland is to play, which suggests he has been liaising with Howland's representatives (or even Howland himself ?) ... He commands that Cat be "kept safe" at Seagard for the duration of the war. This means that not only will she be safe, but unable to argue against or interfere with Robb's plans, should he be killed in battle. (During the scene, Robb points out for us that the Ironborn will be squabbling over their succession, and Cat's thoughts (again, for our benefit) hark back to when she acted against Robb's orders about Jaime. Robb is avoiding either possibility.)

Howland Reed was one of Eddard’s most trusted bannermen, and he would obviously be opposed to Greyjoy occupation. Why wouldn't Robb be very confident? 

5 hours ago, bemused said:

5. At the end of the council he says... “One more matter. Lord Balon has left chaos in his wake, we hope. I would not do the same. Yet I have no son as yet, my brothers Bran and Rickon are dead, and my sister is wed to a Lannister. I’ve thought long and hard about who might follow me. I command you now as my true and loyal lords to fix your seals to this document as witnesses to my decision.”  ... He doesn't request, but commands what Cat's role will be and that his bannermen witness his decision re: his succession.

6. Though many of us think the will went with Robb to the twins, I want to point out that the Myraham would be travelling south along the coast, from Seagard to Oldtown. The Captain has been assured that he will be rewarded, and he displays a willing attitude to Robb. ... It would be easy for the Captain to stop at the mouth of the river that passes Riverrun (Tumblestone?), and put off a Mallister courier taking the will to Jeyne and the Blackfish.(Or even act as courier himself) It would be logical for Robb's Queen (and possible heir) to have possession of his will. He makes the will because he plans to be riding into battle immediately after the wedding, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have it with him, where it could be lost or destroyed.

The Tumblestone flows into the Red Fork, and the Red Fork flows into the Trident. Yes, Robb could have sent his royal affects back to Riverrun. But why would he do so? He did not anticipate the treachery at the Twins, he very reasonably expected to defeat the Ironborn at Moat Cailin, and his destination was Winterfell. I wouldn't think the king would stuff his royal proclamations in his pocket. They would be kept by a steward in the rear. 

5 hours ago, bemused said:

7.  With Jeyne possibly/probably falling into Lannister hands (We'll likely find out in the TWoW prologue) I think the will is with the Blackfish, and his scornful attitude to Jon in his exchange with Jaime is misdirection. I don't think he'd let it fall into Lannister hands..

Jeyne is in Lannister hands. How did Brynden Tully take what we are calling the will out of Riverrun when he swam under the gate and down the river? In a Ziplock? 

5 hours ago, bemused said:

8. It's quite possible that the document not only names Jon but makes reference to Robb's plan on how to release Jon from his vows. Robb seemed to be aware that there was some, or a precedent for that, though more precedent existed for a legalized bastard to rule. I think he would have taken care of both matters. Robb obviously had given the whole matter a lot of thought, and was trying to satisfy all contingencies beforehand.

(In this SSM, I doubt George is referring to the release of Barristan, but probably older cases.

 http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Nights_Watch_Oath )

So the Greatjon, Maege, Galbart Glover, Jason Mallister, Edmure and probably Raynald Westerling all knew the contents, and at least some of them would know where it was sent, if it was sent... (If Reynald Westerling survived, there's a potential for others to know, depending on who might have rescued him..)

Yes, I think so, in the fact that while Galbart despaired over Robbett's capture earlier - in ADWD when speaking to Davos ... 

"Glover. Your seat was Deepwood Motte."

"My brother Galbart's seat. It was and is, thanks to your King Stannis. He has taken Deepwood back from the iron bitch who stole it and offers to restore it to its rightful owners.

.. Robbett expresses no reciprocal despair over Galbart's whereabouts and "was and is" implies he knows very well that Galbart survived the red wedding.

I see what you mean with the present tense. That's pretty good evidence to suggest that Robett at least suspects that Galbart is alive. 

5 hours ago, bemused said:

I think if Lyra and Jory had gone south with their mother, there would have been some mention of them. I don't think there's a chance that Maege would have left Bear Island under Lyanna's command and not even solely under Alysanne.. Looking at her conversation with Asha in ADWD...

 "Five, we were. All girls. Lyanna is back on Bear Island. Lyra and Jory are with our mother. Dacey was murdered."
"The Red Wedding."
"Aye." Alysane stared at Asha for a moment. "I have a son. He's only two. My daughter's nine."

...Alysanne would have been highly pregnant when Robb called the banners (If the boy is two he was born in 298). Considering the frequency with which women die in childbirth Alysanne wouldn't have been left alone. My bet is that both Lyra and Jory stayed and have joined Maege since her return..(or she has joined them, but is lying low). The first letters Stannis sent out asked/ demanded that he be recognised as King. The Mormonts were not about to swear to him so they had Lyanna answer. It's unlikely Stannis would go to the trouble of making war on a child off on some island, when he had more pressing concerns.

No. Lara and Jor-El rode south with their mum...

Quote

Catelyn wondered if Lady Maege had reached the Neck as yet. She had taken her other daughters with her, but as one of Robb’s battle companions Dacey had chosen to remain by his side.

Catelyn, Clash 51

6 hours ago, bemused said:

The clans never bent the knee, but agreed to help Stannis for the sake of "Ned's little girl", opening a door for Alysanne to join under the same terms.. as an ally, not a subject.

I agree with this. We've been shown or told of many means of communication. Everyone wants the news, even in normal circumstances. Umbers use clan lands for grazing and contact is made, both habitually have watchers out because of raiders.. and Umbers are working with Manderly along the White Knife... there are boats, riders, signal fires, traders (real or otherwise) bearing news (and perhaps messages).. ravens for those who can, or can safely use them...There's no shortage of means of communication.

There's a good chance Roose knows exactly what Maege and Galbart know, and would not want them to live to tell it. Robb has a meeting with him at the twins which we were not privy to, because Cat was only there for part of it.

I am not sure what you are saying here? Yes, the clans and Alysanne have allied with Stannis. What does that tell us about where Maege and Galbart are? 

Yes stories and information could pass through encounters you mentioned. News of the red wedding, at least different versions of what might have happened, have been discussed. But I formation about Robb's heirs and possible strategic moves would be a bit more sensitive, don't you think? I mean, before the clandestine visits to the privy at Winterfell, how would Manderly have communicated his intention to bring Rickon? And if Manderly knows that Jon was Robb's chosen successor why does he call Rickon his liege lord? 

[Clegane'sPup]

Robett Glover was supposedly put on a ship at Duskendale sometime in SoS. He stayed missing until he showed up in DwD at White Harbor.

Maege and Galbart went in search of Howland in SoS. No mention of the daughters. Yet, Alysanne does say to Asha that the girls are with Maege.

That could be an untruth like when Davos was hanging out in one of the dives and was told the Ryswells and Dustin’s had surprised the ironmen on the Fever River and put their longships to torch.

Maege & her girls and Galbart will show up when and if Martin decides to bring them back into the story. 

My best guess is they are chillin’ with Howland biding their time until the GNC and Stannis relieves WF and Westeros of Boltons.

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 minute ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Robett Glover was supposedly put on a ship at Duskendale sometime in SoS. He stayed missing until he showed up in DwD at White Harbor.

Maege and Galbart went in search of Howland in SoS. No mention of the daughters. Yet, Alysanne does say to Asha that the girls are with Maege.

That could be an untruth like when Davos was hanging out in one of the dives and was told the Ryswells and Dustin’s had surprised the ironmen on the Fever River and put their longships to torch.

Maege & her girls and Galbart will show up when and if Martin decides to bring them back into the story. 

My best guess is they are chillin’ with Howland biding their time until the GNC and Stannis relieves WF and Westeros of Boltons.

Err...what is the untruth you are referring to in the bolded part above? That is indeed what the Dustins and Ryswells did to the Ironmen.

As for the fact that the girls are with Maege, that is very interesting, as we hear no mention of them being with Maege in the Riverlands. So did they join her more recently? Also, it is quite suspicious that Lyanna Mormont responds to Stannis, even though her elder sister, Allysane, must have been in charge of Bear Island and present there when the message was sent to Stannis.

Unless Allysane was NOT there, and was in fact also off meeting with her mother somewhere in secret, at the time...

[Clegane'sPup]

3 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Err...what is the untruth you are referring to in the bolded part above? That is indeed what the Dustins and Ryswells did to the Ironmen

I may have forgotten something, par for the course in these jumbled up novels. It seems to me that Vic had no trouble getting to or from Moat Cailin. Help me out, will ya.

[Free Northman Reborn]

3 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I may have forgotten something, par for the course in these jumbled up novels. It seems to me that Vic had no trouble getting to or from Moat Cailin. Help me out, will ya.

This happened after Victarrion had departed with the main Ironborn fleet. These were obviously remaining Ironborn, perhaps a relief force for the guys stuck at Moat Cailin, or another force that remained somewhere on the Fever River.

[Clegane'sPup]

17 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Err...what is the untruth you are referring to in the bolded part above? That is indeed what the Dustins and Ryswells did to the Ironmen.

As for the fact that the girls are with Maege, that is very interesting, as we hear no mention of them being with Maege in the Riverlands. So did they join her more recently? Also, it is quite suspicious that Lyanna Mormont responds to Stannis, even though her elder sister, Allysane, must have been in charge of Bear Island and present there when the message was sent to Stannis.

Unless Allysane was NOT there, and was in fact also off meeting with her mother somewhere in secret, at the time...

Do you have any speculation as to where the bolded part was taking place?

8 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

This happened after Victarrion had departed with the main Ironborn fleet. These were obviously remaining Ironborn, perhaps a relief force for the guys stuck at Moat Cailin, or another force that remained somewhere on the Fever River.

Do you have a reference that Vic left ships behind? I don't recall that. Like I said, there is so much information in the books I forget stuff. Davos heard a rumor that

28 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

the Ryswells and Dustin’s had surprised the ironmen on the Fever River and put their longships to torch.

Vic left Moat Cailin after he received a summons from Damphair due to Balon's death.

Vic went to Cailin, a summons arrived at Cailin, Vic left Cailin and no one mentioned problems or burning ships.

lol, thanks for at least acknowledging that when Robb sent Maege and Galbert into the Neck there was no mention of the daughters.

[Free Northman Reborn]

12 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Do you have any speculation as to where the bolded part was taking place?

Do you have a reference that Vic left ships behind? I don't recall that. Like I said, there is so much information in the books I forget stuff. Davos heard a rumor that

Vic left Moat Cailin after he received a summons from Damphair due to Balon's death.

Vic went to Cailin, a summons arrived at Cailin, Vic left Cailin and no one mentioned problems or burning ships.

lol, thanks for at least acknowledging that when Robb sent Maege and Galbert into the Neck there was no mention of the daughters.

Why is the issue of Maege's daughters not being with her in the South controversial? It is common knowledge that they were never mentioned before.

As for the Dustins and Ryswells burning the Ironborn ships on the Fever River: What gives you any reason to doubt that? The Ironborn left men at Torhenn Square, at Deepwood Motte and at Moat Cailin. Why dispute the fact that the Dustins and Ryswells defeated a contingent of them on the Fever River? There is no reason to doubt it whatsoever.

 

[kissdbyfire]

But Jory and Lyra probably were with Maege right before the RW. Or it's very likely it's to them that Cat is refers to... I wanna say in one of her last chapters in Storm but I'm not sure that's correct. 

 

 

[Clegane'sPup]

Weeeel now. You be not answering any of me questions. Tis okee dokey. I'll try to answer some of yours.

40 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Why is the issue of Maege's daughters not being with her in the South controversial?

The topic is, if I have my comprehension fully functioning, whether Maege's two daughters are with her and if they are with her where are they. Am I doing okay so far? Nothing is controversial unless you would like to make it so.

40 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

It is common knowledge that they were never mentioned before.

Why is the op questioning the whereabouts of said persons? Shits and giggles? Why am I wondering about said characters? Maege & Galbert disappeared once they entered that swamp and haven't been heard from. It is not clear that Maege's two daughters went with her.

The point of contention is why does Alyannse think/say/state that her sisters are with Maege.

40 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

As for the Dustins and Ryswells burning the Ironborn ships on the Fever River: What gives you any reason to doubt that?

Because unless you can provide me with a quote that it happened I think that it was merely gossip Davos heard.

40 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The Ironborn left men at Torhenn Square, at Deepwood Motte and at Moat Cailin.

I'm not sure about Torhenn Square but the ironborn were defeated at DW and Theon delivered the dead and dying from MC to Ramsey.

40 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Why dispute the fact that the Dustins and Ryswells defeated a contingent of them on the Fever River? There is no reason to doubt it whatsoever.

Because the Fever River ends near MC. Now could you please tell me where the Dustin's and Ryswell's burned ironborn ships.

I dunna know what twisted ya drawers other than I said Davos heard a rumor so perhaps you could share why you said

52 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Unless Allysane was NOT there, and was in fact also off meeting with her mother somewhere in secret, at the time...

[Lost Melnibonean]

Dudes, as I noted upthread...

Lara and Jor-El rode south with their mum...

Quote

Catelyn wondered if Lady Maege had reached the Neck as yet. She had taken her other daughters with her, but as one of Robb’s battle companions Dacey had chosen to remain by his side.

Catelyn, Clash 51