Martell Spy Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Quote It's about making the lives of millions of people more difficult and miserable. It does nothing to make the US safer. Quite the opposite, and they know it too. So say also people who have been working on these matters since 9/11. It's an intentional smoke screen for being mean and nothing else. Yeah, I agree, but it's also important that the power of the state was used in the service of being vicious. I'm trying to recall that happening in my lifetime and I'm drawing blanks. There's a long history of xenophobic immigration policies in America, but nothing in recent history like this. 'It will be called Americanism': the US writers who imagined a fascist future From Sinclair Lewis and Philip Roth to Donald Trump’s favourite film, Citizen Kane, US culture has long told stories about homegrown authoritarianism. What can we learn from them? https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/feb/03/americanism-us-writers-imagine-fascist-future-fiction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRider Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 5 hours ago, Nasty LongRider said: Thanks for posting this as I need send them a donation! I have Alice's Restaurant playing on the youtube right now to honor the victims of the Bowling Green Massacre because this song honors the memory of the Alice's Restaurant Mass-a-cree and what could be more appropriate? I mean. I meeeeeaaaaaan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRider Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Lord of Rhinos said: What do you guys think of the final election numbers? Trump got 62,985,105 votes and House Republicans got 63,153,387 votes.. Clinton got 65,853,625 votes and House Democrats got 61,776,218 votes. House votes being several million votes behind presidential nominees is standard. I'm curious what people think Trump's weird numbers show. Obviously, some Republican voter refused to vote for Trump. My hunch is that actually several million Republiccans refused to vote for Trump but those numbers were made up for by several million voters who only showed up to vote for Trump. Too many Republicans running unopposed in heavily gerrymandered districts I'd wager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Regarding Obama, the point isn't the constitutionality of the order, it's that Trump is mad that courts can overrule him. Obama never questioned the legitimacy of the judicial system. Trump is suggesting that the executive branch should have no constraints from the other branches. I am sorry that you do not understand the basis of the argument, but it disqualifies you from having a meaningful opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Rhinos Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Impmk2 said: Mosf likely scenario in my mind is a few million voting for Clinton split tickets as a check against a Clinton admin. And a few million only showed up to vote for Trump. Normally both house races lag behind their presidential candidates by several million votes. Seems to indicate a lot of people just don't bother voting for House Reps. In general, split tickets are getting more and more rare. Senator and Governor races are aligning more and more with presidential voting preferences. I'm having a hard time seeing split tickets being the issue. The Democrats actually added over two million house votes between 2012 and 2016 even though Clinton under performed Obama's 2012 numbers by approximately 100,000 votes. Which indicates Dem voters were actually voting for House races in greater numbers which suggests not as much ticket splitting. I don't think the data supports split tickets being the cause of the weird GOP numbers between their House candidates and presidential candidate at all. Looking over past elections this millennium the closest division between Presidential Candidate and House races is Romney in 2012. He got 2.7 million more votes than the GOP house. The fact that Trump actually came out behind the GOP house races in total votes is unprecedented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Inigima said: Regarding Obama, the point isn't the constitutionality of the order, it's that Trump is mad that courts can overrule him. Obama never questioned the legitimacy of the judicial system. Trump is suggesting that the executive branch should have no constraints from the other branches. I am sorry that you do not understand the basis of the argument, but it disqualifies you from having a meaningful opinion. I disagree with Trump. Of course, the courts should have a right to try to overrule him. I am questioining the selectivity of the outrage, and whether any protest whatosever would have been made by the corrupted nainstream media, if this Order was being put through by the same Dems establishment that drew the list of dubious countries up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Just now, The Killer Snark said: I disagree with Trump. Of course, the courts should have a right to try to overrule him. I am questioining the selectivity of the outrage, and whether any protest whatosever would have been made by the corrupted nainstream media, if this Order was being put through by the same Dems establishment that drew the list of dubious countries up. You can claim hypotheticals all you like; people did not get up in arms about Obama's immigration improvements being marked as unconstitutional by Texas, as an example, nor did they freak out when Lynch told Obama to knock it off in another venue. The reason that you don't see that is that in general the outrage is not about Trump, it is about unconstitutional and unjust actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Rhinos Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, BloodRider said: Too many Republicans running unopposed in heavily gerrymandered districts I'd wager. I assume you mean in regards to the GOP beating the Dems in overall house votes? That's possible but there's nothing out of the ordinary about Dem house numbers vs. Clinton's numbers. Party House numbers trailing the presidential candidates numbers by 4 million is typical. The weirdness is that Trump under performed his parties numbers in the house races, which means that people were willing to vote for their parties house candidate but not their presidential candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRider Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Lord of Rhinos said: I assume you mean in regards to the GOP beating the Dems in overall house votes? That's possible but there's nothing out of the ordinary about Dem house numbers vs. Clinton's numbers. Party House numbers trailing the presidential candidates numbers by 4 million is typical. The weirdness is that Trump under performed his parties numbers in the house races, which means that people were willing to vote for their parties house candidate but not their presidential candidate. I was thinking in absolute numbers. Well, after some quick googling my hypothesis is not likely the case anyway. Seems more Dems were running unopposed anyway. So I am not sure. We do know that Dem districts do contain more voters, as a general rule, so maybe that is the reason why..... How many Rep ran unopposed in 2012? Pose it to 538. Bet they will speculate, and they are better equipped to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, The Killer Snark said: I disagree with Trump. Of course, the courts should have a right to try to overrule him. I am questioining the selectivity of the outrage, and whether any protest whatosever would have been made by the corrupted nainstream media, if this Order was being put through by the same Dems establishment that drew the list of dubious countries up. I do hope you go on boards of primarily Conservative and Right Wingers and post what about the tyranny of Executive Orders and responsibility related to the upholding of the Constitution and not the dictates of one singular individual. For my visit to sites like WND and Daily Caller of clamoring for Marital Law and a removal of anyone who disagrees with Trump. In addition I was under the thought that Obama greatly endangering the country, so why the need to constantly point to him? Should you be starting a new with policies if Obama was putting the country in danger with his? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 2 hours ago, The Killer Snark said: Does anybody care that this Order was actually drawn up by the Obama administration, and that heavier bans were implemented by Obama? Do they care that almost all of the countries on the travel suspension list have permanent bans on Israelis, ot that Kuwait has recently put forth a ban on five different muslim nations that are also known exporters of terrorists? Would they care if this temporary travel suspension was being put forward by Hillary? I answer 'no' to all. YOUTUBE LINKS OR GTFO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 23 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said: I do hope you go on boards of primarily Conservative and Right Wingers and post what about the tyranny of Executive Orders and responsibility related to the upholding of the Constitution and not the dictates of one singular individual. For my visit to sites like WND and Daily Caller of clamoring for Marital Law and a removal of anyone who disagrees with Trump. In addition I was under the thought that Obama greatly endangering the country, so why the need to constantly point to him? Should you be starting a new with policies if Obama was putting the country in danger with his? If people want to discuss anti Constitutionality, where was the Left Wing concern over Hillary wishing it were easier to implement martial law at a moment's notice, by overturning the posse comitatus, in one of her Goldman Sachs speeches? Or even bothering to marvel in horror at what was disclosed in the Podesta Leaks? That's right. A plague of crickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, Week said: YOUTUBE LINKS OR GTFO. +10 So wish I had said that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, The Killer Snark said: If people want to discuss anti Constitionality, where was the Left Wing concern over Hillary wishing it were easier ti implement martial law at a moment's notice, by overthrowing the posse conitatus, in one of her Goldman Sachs speeches? Or even botheriong to marvel in horror at what was disclosed in the Podesta Leaks? That's right. A plague of crickets. So Conservative and Republican want to now do something Hillary wanted. For such terrible people they are sure following a lot of what they want to do. Is that not galling hypocrisy? With most likely a Republican House of Representatives and probably the Senate Hillary wishes are that more so than not. I am not all surprise that she had hopes of power but she would be in far weaker position than Republicans are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Just now, The Killer Snark said: If people want to discuss anti Constitutionality, where was the Left Wing concern over Hillary wishing it were easier to implement martial law at a moment's notice, by overturning the posse comitatus, in one of her Goldman Sachs speeches? Or even bothering to marvel in horror at what was disclosed in the Podesta Leaks? That's right. A plague of crickets. Donald Trump talks a lot about America's trade deficit. It would seem, at this juncture, though, that we are really good at exporting John Birch Society conspiracy theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said: Donald Trump talks a lot about America's trade deficit. It would seem, at this juncture, though, that we are really good at exporting John Birch Society conspiracy theories. I haven't cited conspiracy theories. No one disputed the veracity of Wikileaks. The Left merely indulged in a spot of conspiracy theorising of their own in claiming Russia were behind the hacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Rhinos Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, BloodRider said: Well, after some quick googling that not likely the case either. Seems more Dems were running unopposed anyway. So I am not sure. Pose it to 538. Bet they will speculate, and they are better equipped to do so. for high effort posting. I was expecting to see some in depth articles about voting patterns once the final numbers were in but I've really seen nothing. The news cycle moved on several weeks before hand and it looks like no one has bothered. As far as I know 538 doesn't have any form of message boards. I did send an email to Nate Silver at your suggestion but I don't anticipate hearing anything back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Republicans face anger over Obamacare repeal during town halls Obamacare supporters showed up in huge numbers to voice concerns over repeal. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/republicans-obamacare-repeal-town-halls-234651 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Just now, The Killer Snark said: I haven't cited conspiracy theories. No one disputed the veracity of Wikileaks. The Left merely indulged in a spot of conspiracy theorising of their own in claiming Russia were behind the hacks. I want the exact quote or line from Hillary that supports the idea that she wishes martial law were easier to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 30 minutes ago, Week said: YOUTUBE LINKS OR GTFO. What's really funny is that I know at least one of those stories he mentioned - the Kuwait one - is 100% made up. AND POSTED BY TRUMP ON HIS FACEBOOK. What's even better is that it was picked up by tons of shitty news sources around the world, too, from the same syndication feed. And it's still bullshit. Quote If people want to discuss anti Constitutionality, where was the Left Wing concern over Hillary wishing it were easier to implement martial law at a moment's notice, by overturning the posse comitatus, in one of her Goldman Sachs speeches? Or even bothering to marvel in horror at what was disclosed in the Podesta Leaks? That's right. A plague of crickets. No, the time to prosecute the election is done. Clinton isn't the President. Sorry. This doesn't matter. If you think that the left wasn't talking about Clinton's problems all the time, well, hahahahahhahahahah hahahahaha hahaha But again, doesn't matter in the least. You can't base Trump's success on 'at least it's not Clinton' for 4 years. Especially when he signs an order to remove regulations because his banker friends need help. Seriously, naming the dreaded Goldman Sachs speeches when Trump has 4 Goldman Sachs people in his cabinet and had the COO of Goldman Sachs standing with him when he signed the EO? That's some serious balls you got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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