The Others Will Freeze the Neck

[A True Kaniggit]

I really think it's going to happen. The war against the Others would be rather boring if it only took place in the north. So in order to get into the south they will have to cross the neck somehow or other. The north is large, so once their invasion starts it's not likely they'll be able travel all that distance without being noticed. So I can just see this happening. The southern armies are massed at the end of the causeway below the neck, thinking to meet the armies of the undead head on. And then BAM. The Other's use their cold magic, completely freeze the swamps solid, and march over the frozen mud to outflank the southern armies in order to surround and annihilate them.

And though I think this is less likely, I'd think it be nice if the Others also had the ability to freeze the ocean. That way the Iron Islands and Essos wouldn't get through the war with the Others unscathed.

[chrisdaw]

I like it, generally people need to think bigger and more magical. Don't like freezing the ocean though, as that circumvents the point of the wall.

Thing is, for something like the Others freezing the neck, for as grand an event as it'd be, I'd expect there to be foreshadowing. I don't know that there isn't, but it's your theory.

[Free Northman Reborn]

They don't need to do that. They can simply raise their undead armies directly in the South. The corpses they need are already South of the Neck.

[A True Kaniggit]

5 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

They don't need to do that. They can simply raise their undead armies directly in the South. The corpses they need are already South of the Neck.

You know, I brought this up once a couple years ago and was shouted down. I was told that the problem with this theory is that by the time of the Other invasion most of the dead from the WoTFKs would already be too decomposed to be useful in battle. Either that or the corpses had an expiration date that had to be met or they couldn't be raised.

[Maester of Valyria]

If the Others want to get to Essos they don't need to freeze a bridge over the ocean. All they need to do is cool the planet (by extending their influence over more landmass) to increase the amount of water locked into the ice caps. The resulting drop in sea levels will expose the Arm of Dorne again.

[Schwarze Sonne]

This is the only problem I really have with the Others. How do they get into other continents if they can't cross the sea. How could they ever be an existential threat to humanity if they can't even build a ship after thousands of years and instead barred from passing by the Wall?

Seriously, nobody ever give much thought into this huge problem. Many make speculation such as the sea surface freezing in ice, or ice sheets used as ships. I believe many dismiss the Others appearance in Essos completely because of some reasons.

[Philpenn]

The far North of Westeros is the far South of Sothoryos, or they're connected by some other landmass in the area not shown on the world map.  When the Walkers are ready, they send armies of dead in both directions.

[Curled Finger]

4 hours ago, Schwarze Sonne said:

This is the only problem I really have with the Others. How do they get into other continents if they can't cross the sea. How could they ever be an existential threat to humanity if they can't even build a ship after thousands of years and instead barred from passing by the Wall?

Seriously, nobody ever give much thought into this huge problem. Many make speculation such as the sea surface freezing in ice, or ice sheets used as ships. I believe many dismiss the Others appearance in Essos completely because of some reasons.

I don't know if you've had a chance to take a look at any of the really cool places on the Essos map, but the more you see the more apparent it becomes that there are parallels and inverse relationships between Westeros and Essos.   This is making me think that in conjunction with the legend of Azor Ahai that perhaps the Others or some Essosi equivalent was already there once.  Westeros appears to be the final frontier and also has the furthest northern lands--an arctic circle type area that Essos simply doesn't have. The breaking of the Arm of Dorne was important for more than 1 thing I suspect.  

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Philpenn said:

The far North of Westeros is the far South of Sothoryos, or they're connected by some other landmass in the area not shown on the world map.  When the Walkers are ready, they send armies of dead in both directions.

Is that confirmed?  I thought there was an SSM or something clearly stating the continents were not attached?  

[Schwarze Sonne]

39 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I don't know if you've had a chance to take a look at any of the really cool places on the Essos map, but the more you see the more apparent it becomes that there are parallels and inverse relationships between Westeros and Essos.   This is making me think that in conjunction with the legend of Azor Ahai that perhaps the Others or some Essosi equivalent was already there once.  Westeros appears to be the final frontier and also has the furthest northern lands--an arctic circle type area that Essos simply doesn't have. The breaking of the Arm of Dorne was important for more than 1 thing I suspect.  

Well, most people discussing about it in TWOIAF sub-thread dismissed them completely because:

1. GRRM said that Westeros and Essos aren't connected.

2. The Others can't cross sea water.

And that's it. What could have been done when the discussions and speculations about the Others appearing in Essos are dismissed that easily?

[Curled Finger]

9 minutes ago, Schwarze Sonne said:

Well, most people discussing about it in TWOIAF sub-thread dismissed them completely because:

1. GRRM said that Westeros and Essos aren't connected.

2. The Others can't cross sea water.

And that's it. What could have been done when the discussions and speculations about the Others appearing in Essos are dismissed that easily?

Essos has plenty of monsters I wouldn't want to run across.  They don't actually need the Others!  

[Ser Wun Wun]

If any magic takes place at the Neck again, my money would be on it being the Hammer of the Waters being used (again) on the Neck in order to separate the North from the South for good and all.  

I would guess the context for it would be humans (with the help of the Green Men from the Isle of Faces) sacrificing the North in this way in order to halt the Others invasion.  This series began with a neck being cut, it ends with a neck being cut, heh. 

[Philpenn]

14 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Is that confirmed?  I thought there was an SSM or something clearly stating the continents were not attached?  

 

In no way confirmed.  Having never heard about the George specifically dismissing it before, I always did think it possible though.  Just the whole map cutting off in 2 places thing when we assume the planet is not flat.  Manipulate that map the same way we do with our map to form a globe, and both unknown areas would be on the dark side.  That and the Five Forts seemingly being The Wall of Essos.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

Hmm, I always thought that the major battle of Ice and Fire would take place near the Trident. The following should foreshadow this. Please let me know why I should interpret this any other way then Dany fighting the Others and the Wights on her dragon near the Trident (or even better, at the Ruby Fort).

Quote

Source

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

[Maester of Valyria]

On 05/02/2017 at 8:32 PM, Philpenn said:

The far North of Westeros is the far South of Sothoryos, or they're connected by some other landmass in the area not shown on the world map.  When the Walkers are ready, they send armies of dead in both directions.

Is there any actual evidence for this claim? We have no maps of the south of Sothoryos.

 

[Philpenn]

^^  Two posts above your last.

[Lord Varys]

I indeed expect there to be some freezing to go on in winter, some of it magically done by the Others and their direct presence, other simply because of the cold winter is going to bring. Keep in mind that the Blackwater was frozen shut at KL during the short return of winter after the False Spring. That suggests that all the rivers of Westeros as far south as KL (and perhaps even some of the rivers father down south) are routinely frozen in winter. The entire Trident should be frozen soon enough.

But portions of the Bite might be frozen, too, on occasion, and when the Others come we can be reasonably sure the entire bay will be frozen shut. That would provide the Others with the opportunity to invade the Vale.

The Neck seems to retain some sort of magical heat, possibly due to some Children magic lingering there. I expect winter not to cause too much trouble there until such time as the Others actually arrive there.

A circumvention of the Wall by freezing the Bay of Ice could also happening. One expect that the Others might draw the attention of the defenders of the Wall this way before they finally move against the Wall. And keep in mind that the Bridge of Skulls and the Gorge are not protected by the Wall. Men might not be able climb through a chasm but nobody is going to stop the wights if they are doing that.

[Cymorococh]

Isn't there mention in TWOIAF of other-like creatures in other countries like Yi Ti?

Or is it simply of similarities to The Long Night?

[Maester of Valyria]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The Neck seems to retain some sort of magical heat, possibly due to some Children magic lingering there. I expect winter not to cause too much trouble there until such time as the Others actually arrive there.

Interesting: is there evidence for the Neck retaining this heat? This could help me with an essay I'm working on.

5 hours ago, Philpenn said:

^^  Two posts above your last.

But the climates of the two regions are completely different, and any landmass which did connect them would have to be larger than anything in our world, which would frankly feel a bit ridiculous (albeit while being possible in principle). However, beyond speculation, is there any text based evidence or anything else on the maps?

 

1 hour ago, Cymorococh said:

Isn't there mention in TWOIAF of other-like creatures in other countries like Yi Ti?

Or is it simply of similarities to The Long Night?

I personally think the latter, although you'll find many who argue that the Grey Waste and Lands of Always Winter are connected (which was disproved by an SSM I believe). The creatures here could easily be leftovers from the GEotD or even Dawn Age races which haven't been driven to the edge of extinction due to not many humans living around there.

[Lord Varys]

9 minutes ago, Maester of Valyria said:

Interesting: is there evidence for the Neck retaining this heat? This could help me with an essay I'm working on.

Mostly circumstantial evidence that snakes, crocodiles, and dangerous mosquitos seem to live there. It is not the right climate zone for creatures like that. They should be living as far south as Volantis not in the vicinity of the region where winter hits the land the hardest.