The Others Will Freeze the Neck

[Oreo Crumbs]

 

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Keep in mind that the Blackwater was frozen shut at KL during the short return of winter after the False Spring. That suggests that all the rivers of Westeros as far south as KL (and perhaps even some of the rivers father down south) are routinely frozen in winter. The entire Trident should be frozen soon enough.

Totally off topic but if this is true, then every winter the Freys must lose the leverage they normally exert over others with their bridge.

Anyway, if we're talking about the Neck then there has to be mention of the Reeds.  At some point Howland has to enter the story and a confrontation with the Others could be the spot.  I assume Jon (and the rest of the retreating Northern population) would be there too and we all know Howland has something to tell Jon...

[Lord Varys]

44 minutes ago, Oreo Crumbs said:

Totally off topic but if this is true, then every winter the Freys must lose the leverage they normally exert over others with their bridge.

Yeah, I suggested quite a few times that a frozen Trident should change the game both at Riverrun (involving the Tully restoration there) and the Twins (the eradication of the Freys).

44 minutes ago, Oreo Crumbs said:

Anyway, if we're talking about the Neck then there has to be mention of the Reeds.  At some point Howland has to enter the story and a confrontation with the Others could be the spot.  I assume Jon (and the rest of the retreating Northern population) would be there too and we all know Howland has something to tell Jon...

I expect the Neck to become the major first front line after the Others have destroyed the Wall. I'd not be surprised if Howland Reed first entered the story when Jon and some other survivors sought refuge there.

[A True Kaniggit]

12 hours ago, Oreo Crumbs said:

 

Totally off topic but if this is true, then every winter the Freys must lose the leverage they normally exert over others with their bridge.

Anyway, if we're talking about the Neck then there has to be mention of the Reeds.  At some point Howland has to enter the story and a confrontation with the Others could be the spot.  I assume Jon (and the rest of the retreating Northern population) would be there too and we all know Howland has something to tell Jon...

I think it's been mentioned in the novels that one reason Greywatch has survived is the fact it is able to move throughout the swamp. The freezing of the neck would negate this, maybe causing it's destruction when the Other's invade, forcing Howland into the story since he'll have to abandon ship.

[A True Kaniggit]

On 2/6/2017 at 7:05 AM, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

Hmm, I always thought that the major battle of Ice and Fire would take place near the Trident. The following should foreshadow this. Please let me know why I should interpret this any other way then Dany fighting the Others and the Wights on her dragon near the Trident (or even better, at the Ruby Fort).

But would this be the first battle or the final battle?

If it's the first battle then it would seem the Other invasion was defeated relatively early, with minimal loss of life. If it's the final battle then it would mean the forces of men were driven further south, and had gained a few victories to push the Others back to the Trident, at which Dany shows up with her dragons to deliver a final blow.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

23 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

But would this be the first battle or the final battle?

If it's the first battle then it would seem the Other invasion was defeated relatively early, with minimal loss of life. If it's the final battle then it would mean the forces of men were driven further south, and had gained a few victories to push the Others back to the Trident, at which Dany shows up with her dragons to deliver a final blow.

Is history does tend to repeat itself (also in ASOIAF), I would say this would be the last major battle between men and Others. However, I do not really believe in a human army being able to win a fight against the Others and their wights. The sheer numerical supremacy and the fact that wights can not easily be killed, but dead humans can be raised to as new wights, would make a 'regular' victory impossible.

The only way to win these fights is with Dragons, dragonfire, and perhaps some of the green fiery stuff we've seen in the blackwater battle (wildfire). Burning everything to ashes will probably be the only way to prevent wights from rising up again.
I wonder how the Others would respond to wildfire......

Also, please keep in mind that the others first have to conquer the entire north (which in itself is just as large as the other kingdoms combined). That's a lot of land to conquer, with some decent resistance along the way. However, things should be getting harder for the Others when they reach the Neck. More people, so a stronger resistance, but also the fact that mankind should now be aware of the danger of the Others, and are therefore starting to cooperate, in stead of fighting each other.
Survivors of the first battles, should be able to explain to people how the enemy should be fought. The importance of Valyrian steel will then also become clear to everybody.

The big battle taking place near the trident would also make sense, since it is near the God's eye, where some important stuff happened between men and the CoTF in the past. That lake and its island seem like a pivotal point in Westeros. Especially if we see what happened all around it.

• The pact
• The building of Harrenhall
• Harrenhall finished, Aegon invaded Westeros and destroyed it
• A certain tourney
• The battle between Robert and Rhaegar

[A True Kaniggit]

20 minutes ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

Is history does tend to repeat itself (also in ASOIAF), I would say this would be the last major battle between men and Others. However, I do not really believe in a human army being able to win a fight against the Others and their wights. The sheer numerical supremacy and the fact that wights can not easily be killed, but dead humans can be raised to as new wights, would make a 'regular' victory impossible.

Why shouldn't a human army be able to win a 'regular' victory against wrights? It's seems to me that it's already been shown that wrights are highly flammable. By this time human armies would know to use fire against the undead. And what numerical supremacy? The Other's have been raising wrights from only beyond the wall at this point, one of the least populated areas that we know about.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

54 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Why shouldn't a human army be able to win a 'regular' victory against wrights? It's seems to me that it's already been shown that wrights are highly flammable. By this time human armies would know to use fire against the undead. And what numerical supremacy? The Other's have been raising wrights from only beyond the wall at this point, one of the least populated areas that we know about.

Well, currently only the NW knows about the real threat of the Others and the wights. And we can conclude that the NW isn't in such a stable state at the moment. And I doubt that the NW will survive the first major attack. Do you think the 7 kingdoms will listen to what wildlings will say about this?
Fighting against the Others and wights will be an entire new experience for mankind. Also, remember that all the people that die during the fights, can easily be wighted. Every 1 loss on man's side, is another wight. So their numbers will grow faster, while human numbers will decrease.

[A True Kaniggit]

1 hour ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

Well, currently only the NW knows about the real threat of the Others and the wights. And we can conclude that the NW isn't in such a stable state at the moment. And I doubt that the NW will survive the first major attack. Do you think the 7 kingdoms will listen to what wildlings will say about this?
Fighting against the Others and wights will be an entire new experience for mankind. Also, remember that all the people that die during the fights, can easily be wighted. Every 1 loss on man's side, is another wight. So their numbers will grow faster, while human numbers will decrease.

Also, please keep in mind that the others first have to conquer the entire north (which in itself is just as large as the other kingdoms combined). That's a lot of land to conquer, with some decent resistance along the way. However, things should be getting harder for the Others when they reach the Neck. More people, so a stronger resistance, but also the fact that mankind should now be aware of the danger of the Others, and are therefore starting to cooperate, in stead of fighting each other

I'm going to answer this using you're own post. As you said the North is big, the Others should be getting more resistance the further south they go, and humankind should unite to face them as awareness of the threat spreads.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

2 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Also, please keep in mind that the others first have to conquer the entire north (which in itself is just as large as the other kingdoms combined). That's a lot of land to conquer, with some decent resistance along the way. However, things should be getting harder for the Others when they reach the Neck. More people, so a stronger resistance, but also the fact that mankind should now be aware of the danger of the Others, and are therefore starting to cooperate, in stead of fighting each other

I'm going to answer this using you're own post. As you said the North is big, the Others should be getting more resistance the further south they go, and humankind should unite to face them as awareness of the threat spreads.

Nice one! Compliments on that

What would you do with a land that is not very populated, and with a lot of small villages, some tribes and a couple of major cities , and your biggest asset is both the cold, but also, the bodies of your enemies. First overwhelm the villages and tribes (leave no-one alive) to build up your forces, then go for the bigger settlements, where it is more likely that someone can escape and inform others.

So the first serious challenge for the Others will be a major stronghold in the North (Last Hearth, Karhold, Dreadfort, Winterfell) when more then one of these strongholds has fallen, will mankind realise that some serious sh*t has hit the fan, and they need to organise. Unfortunately, due to the current state of the kingdoms, I highly doubt that the North will receive any support from the other lands. Mainly because all of those 'summer knights' and their armies will not be able to travel that well in the snow up north.
The North is on its own, and will fall.

The southern kingdoms will hear the news and will somehow start to cooperate, and try to stop the Others at the Neck, since this is the smallest part of Westeros. However, this will be the first time that the southern armies will face this enemy and they will still need to learn the proper tactics to fight of this new enemy. They might have learned from escaped Northerners that fire will kill off wights, but that same fire can also decimate your own army, so they need to figure out a way to control it. It will not happen in the first big battles of the southern armies. They will be forced to retreat and reorganise until they reach the trident and tactics have been found to combine a normal army with dragons, wildfire and 'special forces' with valyrian steel.

[devilish]

I think that Westeros and Essos are connected. The Grey waste is basically the land of always winter and the 5 forts do the same job as the wall . That would explain how Mance ended up with silk from Asshai, why the east share similar stories of the long winter as Westeros and it also explains "To go north, you must go south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow." prophecy.

[Clegane'sPup]

Since I don’t know if the cold brings the Others or whether the Others bring the cold I’m gonna go with the idea that going into WoW there is a bunch of stuff to square away.

LC Snow is wounded or dead & resurrected. There is a snow storm happening. Either way I don’t see the rescue of Hardhome taking place. Nor do I see LC Snow & teammates flying from the Wall to fight Boltons at WF.

Stannis is stuck in a crofters village. There is a snow storm happening.

Roose is holed up in WF and there is a snow storm happening.

Stannis & teammates intend on rousting Bolton from WF. It they succeed, Stannis heads back to where??? The Nightfort. Mel summons Rhaloo to shed its light on the Great Other whose name cannot be mentioned. The long night begins. The seventy nine sentinels magically awaken and the battle with the Others begins.

Other castles along the Wall are sparsely manned by wildlings. The dragonglass Stannis had mined from Dragonstone has been magically distributed. Arrows of frozen fire/obsidian/dragonglass and fire rain down from top of the Wall killing the Others and their minions.

Then the Great Other and Rhllor materialize and come to fist to cuffs. They duke it out till they can’t. While they are lying there on the snow covered ground one is shot with fire, the other is shot with ice. The long night lifts. The comet streaks through the sky.

The Wall still stands. The realm is saved. The Targ invader and her horde arrive in Westeros, the strung out Euron, the Lannisters, Aegon, the Vale, LS, Tyrion, Arya, Dorne and the zillion of other mini plots begin to take shape and unfold.

Let’s not forget Howland must needs reveal the secrets he knows that has kept him hidden for five books.

No, I dunna think that the Others will freeze the Neck, but that opinion depends on whether the Others bring the cold or the cold brings the Others.

[Maester of Valyria]

On 08/02/2017 at 4:50 PM, Lord Varys said:

Mostly circumstantial evidence that snakes, crocodiles, and dangerous mosquitos seem to live there. It is not the right climate zone for creatures like that. They should be living as far south as Volantis not in the vicinity of the region where winter hits the land the hardest.

Hmm, thanks. I will certainly bear that in mind and try and incorporate it.

 

On 09/02/2017 at 1:50 PM, devilish said:

I think that Westeros and Essos are connected. The Grey waste is basically the land of always winter and the 5 forts do the same job as the wall . That would explain how Mance ended up with silk from Asshai, why the east share similar stories of the long winter as Westeros and it also explains "To go north, you must go south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow." prophecy.

GRRM has said that the Grey Waste does not connect with the Lands of Always Winter.

I've never understood why Mance getting silk from Asshai is so mind-bending: it's probably from a cog visiting Lannisport or Barrowton that got blown off course and wrecked.

Any ice age will have effects on climate the world over. Yes there are monsters in the east but we have no evidence that these are Others. More likely they are another species of the Dawn Age.

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Maester of Valyria said:

Hmm, thanks. I will certainly bear that in mind and try and incorporate it.

Could be that my knowledge about reptiles is taking the better of me. I really like snakes. However, the relative heat in the Neck is really odd, and we don't meet the animals to be found in there in other regions. There is no talk about snakes or lizard-lions in the North or the Riverlands. The latter certainly would have been fun while Jaime and Brienne were traveling the Trident.

[Maester of Valyria]

16 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Could be that my knowledge about reptiles is taking the better of me. I really like snakes. However, the relative heat in the Neck is really odd, and we don't meet the animals to be found in there in other regions. There is no talk about snakes or lizard-lions in the North or the Riverlands. The latter certainly would have been fun while Jaime and Brienne were traveling the Trident.

Oh absolutely it would've been! I will do some research into reptile habitats.