NFL Superbowl: Dont Waste My Overtime

[Frances Bean Corbray]

16 point lead.

Less than 8 minutes left.

1 yard to pick up a first down.

You've been running the ball so well all game long that your RB is probably going to be MVP if you win.  But even if you get stopped in this situation you kill a minute of clock or one of their time outs.

HERP DERP LINE UP IN THE SHOTGUN AND CALL A PASSING PLAY AND FUMBLE.

Get the ball back, big plays by said running back and Julio Jones get you into easy field goal range with under 4 minutes left to re-establish the all important two score lead.  Second and short.  Running the ball to pick up the first down or at minimum eat their timeouts and kick the "sure" field goal is the obvious tactic here after decades of winning football conventional wisdom.  Also fucking around and trying to get cute with pass plays backfired spectacularly literally the drive before.  Anything other than a sack or a turnover is acceptable on the next two plays, and you can make the former literally impossible by running the ball.

HERP DERP DROP BACK TO PASS AND TAKE SACKS AND PENALTIES TO FALL OUT OF FIELD GOAL RANGE LOL LITERALLY REPEAT THE SAME FUCKING MISTAKE WE JUST MADE.

In fact, from the time the Falcons went up 28-3, largely on the strength of rushing and defense, they called 5 rushing plays the rest of the game. 

5. 

In five possessions.  Even a pair of shit-conservative clock eating 3 and outs gets you to six.

When they needed to kill clock and let their defense rest, Offensive Coordinator Kyle Shannahan did the polar opposite of that.

How does a team that doesn't know better than that even get to the Super Bowl.

That's not choking.  That's taking a dive.

 

Is Kyle Shannahan tired of the 49ers calling him about the Head Coach gig and trying to fuck up so badly they lose interest in him?

[If so LOL it's going to take more than abject incompetence to kill that prospect.  The Yorks screen in favor of it.]

[Rockroi]

13 minutes ago, Altherion said:

I think all of the criticism towards Shanahan is not entirely fair. People are thinking of the alternative to what he did as an automatic 3 points, but consider all the ways that this could have gone wrong. For example:

1) Running back fumbles the ball.

2) Missed field goal. Not everybody has the nerves of steel required to handle the pressure.

3) The most cinematic: the Patriots do that jumping play they tried before (or some other trick play), but this time they don't get flagged for it and the kick is blocked.

Bonus points if either the fumble or blocked kick is returned for a touchdown or at least deep into Falcon territory. Shanahan would never hear the end of it: "You have the season MVP as quarterback and you are settling for a field goal against the king of trick plays?!" Of course, these scenarios are not very likely, but neither is what happened: Matt Ryan is MVP for a reason and it is very rare for him to lose yards like this when it matters. Shanahan's strategy of leaning on arguably the strongest part of his team didn't work out, but I don't think it deserves that much criticism.

I get what you are saying and pundits revert to this sort of thinking all the time: You have the best running back/wide receiver/QB you cannot take the ball out of his hands.  I get that.  But at that point in the game, the situation should take precedent; you have to know all the variables.  The Falcons had the ball on the Pats 27 with 4:46 left to play.  The Pats need two things- points and time.  And a clock-killing drive there handles two of those things.  

Just run the ball- you are looking for points there AND you can run time off the clock.  Freeman had been running great up until then.  Freeman was averaging 6.8 yards a carry.  He lost 1 yard on first down.  Lets say he ran for 6 on second down (about his average) and then the Pats stopped them on third.  That would mean the final field goal would have been 38 yard chip shot.  And even then, it would have burned almost 2 minutes off the clock, or forced the Pats to burn time outs.  All of those outcomes are great for the Falcons.  

As the stats show, there is not a huge differentiation between scoring 7 there or 3.  But scoring 0?  

And sure, running backs fumble; but QBs throw picks too and either could happen, so those sort of cancel out.  I think Atlanta has to look at the situation and understand that running there is just the better call even if Passing gets you more yards or points.  The fact is, you only need to score 3 points or kill two minutes of clock.  Atlanta did neither.  

To me, while I agree Shanahan should not take ALL the crap, he has to eat some crap for this.  

[KingintheNorth4]

That was the best Super Bowl of all time, and Tom Brady is the grearest Quarterback of all time. The sustained success of the Patriots continues to impress me, 16 years later.

[Altherion]

2 hours ago, Rockroi said:

To me, while I agree Shanahan should not take ALL the crap, he has to eat some crap for this.  

That part I agree with. In the end, the offense of the Falcons delivered absolutely nothing in the last quarter and a half of regulation time -- not just no points, but also no time of possession to run down the clock and let their tired defense rest.

Don't feel too bad for him though -- he's now officially the head coach of the San Francisco 49ers and supposedly has a 6-year contract.

[sperry]

2 hours ago, Rockroi said:

1. What makes you think he didn't know the situation?  And then you say "Whether it was his fault or poor coaching, I don't know" which is fascinating because you are arguing as if you DO know.  And it doesn't matter - penalties who that you did something wrong.  I would agree with you to a point if the O line was constantly committing False Start penalties- that could just be mental errors (or guys getting beat and resorting to trying to get a quick jump/ getting antsy).  But these were guys just getting beat and then thinking "Okay, better cheat!"  

I think these are - IN NO WAY-  "unforced errors;" these are good old fashioned forced errors!  These are guys getting beat and getting caught.  So, yeah- that's on the offense!  It goes to show that they were not running as efficiently as maybe people would want to claim. 

2. Devonta Freeman didn't just fuck up his blocking assignment; he was not properly prepared and it showed why the Atlanta offense could have been sharper.  

A little back ground on that play- Coleman was injured on the previous play so its possible that Freeman was not supposed to be in there but that they had no choice now that Coleman was done.  Well, if that's the case- THAT'S ON THE OFFENSE FOR NOT PREPPING THE PLAYER!  You have to have these guys know that they need to know the situation and what may happen. 

Next, what's fascinating is that Freeman is looking at his guy- Kyle van Noy (IIRC) the whole time; he knew who to black.  The Pats rarely blitz Hightower; he is an athletic beast so he can roam that interior line and cover guys etc.  So when he ran up, Freeman was looking in the opposite direction because, well, that's where he was probably told where the pressure was going to come from.  So, there is a chance the D was like, "You know what?  We bet Freeman is overwhelmed right now; too much going on; send the guy they don't expect and get to the QB because, well, WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO GET TO THE QB!"  

And somebody, maybe, should have told Freeman that. 

I can't say for certain if that happened; but in that moment it showed that the Falcons were not as prepared as maybe they should have been. And that is offensive inefficiency.  

Edit: Just not going to try to engage Pats fans on anything to do with this game or their team. I'm certainly guilty of it myself, but fans just get irrational when talking about their teams.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

38 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Don't feel too bad for him though -- he's now officially the head coach of the San Francisco 49ers and supposedly has a 6-year contract.

Don't feel bad for him? If he thought this last game was rough, wait till he gets a taste of scenic Santa Clara. The Niners just sued the fucking city! You can't write this shit.

 http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/09/san-francisco-49ers-sue-santa-clara-over-allegations-of-contract-breach/

[Altherion]

10 hours ago, Maithanet said:

But that cuts both ways.  A qb with unique physical gifts might be able to weather them regressing to being merely average, whereas for Brady if his arm strength regresses even a bit, defenses will start playing 10 guys near the line of scrimmage.  If Brady can't throw a crisp sideline route 25 yards down the field, one safety can effectively cover the entire deep area.  The Colts did it against Peyton Manning in the AFCCG in 2014, and in spite of having open receivers, he couldn't punish them.  Once that happened, he was done as a truly dangerous quarterback (regardless of getting dragged to the SB a year later). 

This brings up a question I don't know how to answer: what is the maximum distance he (or any other quarterback) can throw it right now? I've tried to google it, but either I don't know the right terms or people don't tabulate this kind of information.

For example, consider the long Brady to Hogan touchdown from the Patriots-Ravens game back in December (Youtube video). If you look at the video, the Patriots start out at their own 21, but Brady drops back to roughly the 14 before throwing the ball. Hogan catches the ball at roughly the Ravens' 46 (or maybe 45; he's running so fast it's hard to tell) and then runs for a touchdown. Most stats refer to this as 79 passing yards, but of course most of that is not the pass. A few divide it into yards-at-the-catch and yards-after-the-catch which here I believe would be roughly 33 and 46 respectively. The actual distance thrown is roughly 40 yards (not quite the same as the yards-at-the-catch because the quarterback is always behind the line of scrimmage). I guess the yards-at-the-catch would also be fine, but I can only find totals for a season which is not useful.

So, does anyone know of a site which tallies the distances quarterbacks throw?

[JonSnow4President]

28 minutes ago, Altherion said:

This brings up a question I don't know how to answer: what is the maximum distance he (or any other quarterback) can throw it right now? I've tried to google it, but either I don't know the right terms or people don't tabulate this kind of information.

For example, consider the long Brady to Hogan touchdown from the Patriots-Ravens game back in December (Youtube video). If you look at the video, the Patriots start out at their own 21, but Brady drops back to roughly the 14 before throwing the ball. Hogan catches the ball at roughly the Ravens' 46 (or maybe 45; he's running so fast it's hard to tell) and then runs for a touchdown. Most stats refer to this as 79 passing yards, but of course most of that is not the pass. A few divide it into yards-at-the-catch and yards-after-the-catch which here I believe would be roughly 33 and 46 respectively. The actual distance thrown is roughly 40 yards (not quite the same as the yards-at-the-catch because the quarterback is always behind the line of scrimmage). I guess the yards-at-the-catch would also be fine, but I can only find totals for a season which is not useful.

So, does anyone know of a site which tallies the distances quarterbacks throw?

That seems so subjective.  I wonder if any of them calculate the actual distance since the ball tends to travel diagonally across the field unless the QB is throwing it up the middle. 

I think air yards is the closest you'll be able to find (yards past the line of scrimmage to when the receiver catches it).  Personally, I don't think it's all that useful.  I'd rather have Brady any day of the week, who can reliably work underneath/intermediate routes to guys in space or place it in the right spot so they can run after catching the ball in stride.  Compare that with Jameis Winston, who is getting an extra 0.6 yards of air travel per attempt, but due to imperfect ball placement ends up a full yard per attempt behind Brady in terms of actual production.  

Bonus question, what NFL QB has the highest air yards per attempt this season?  What qualifying NFL QB (to get rid of the backups who only attempted 3 passes, hint hint)?

Your top 10, in order, are 

 

Romo, Cardale Jones, Charlie Whitehurst, Derek Anderson, Shaun Hill, Kirk Cousins, Matt Barkley, Matt Ryan, Jameis Winston, and Andrew Luck

With QB's with less than 200 attempts removed, your top 10 are Cousins, Barkley, Ryan, Winston, Luck, Prescott, Mariota, Wilson, Cutler, and Palmer [/spoiler]

If you look at that list, you have 1 All-Pro caliber QB, 4 Pro Bowl calibers, 2 promising young QBs, 2 potatoes, and _________, destroyer of franchises. You're notably missing 

 

Brady (13th), Brees (16th), Big Ben (18th), Rodgers (21st), Carr (27th), and Stafford 32nd 

Now, those ranks include the likes of Matt Moore, Matt Cassel, Josh McCown, Landry Jones, and Jimmy Garoppolo, so Stafford isn't the worst starter, but it goes to show how it's a stat that has some pretty major shortcomings

[JonSnow4President]

Well, I nerfed 2 spoilers in the same post to holy hell, and the editor doesn't like changing it.  Anyway, it's my bedtime, and I probably won't be on much the next few days as I have a job interview out of town.  You guys have fun.  Falcons fans don't drink too much from depression.  Pats fans, don't drink too much from celebration.  

Everyone else, Cleveland is on the clock (and if they don't take Garrett without getting a ton of picks to trade back, they should be ashamed of themselves).

PS: That picture is from frickin' high school. 

Ah screw the PS, we'll make this post about my fellow Aggie.

You have the chance to take a guy who is as big as a physical freak as they come in terms of athleticism.  You know he's gotten better from a technique standpoint every year.  On weekends, the guy stays home, plays video games, watches Jurassic Park because he's a dinosaur nerd, writes poetry, and otherwise keeps his head out of trouble because he saw what drugs did to his older brother's NBA career. His goal for the money he plans to make as a pro athlete?  Fund paleontological digs.

Sure, you'll have to deal with ludicrous holds not being called (I'm talking chokeholds and tackling him to the ground), and his run stopping is not Mack or Watt-esque, but the only thing that's going to cause him to bust is injury.  He's been nicked up his sophomore and junior seasons, but played through it against tough opponents (the guy playing on a bad leg still manages to draw double teams from Alabama). 

Short of getting a ransom of draft picks, Cleveland needs to get their fastest player to run to the podium with the pick.  I've had the wonderful opportunity to watch every game for both Von Miller and Garrett as an Aggie.  In their final years at A&M, I'd take Garrett hands down. 

Sadly, my favorite gif of a no holding call against auburn isn't pulling up (he is literally tackled to the ground) (Edit it was a vine, trying to find it) (Edit again: Found one that contains it, truncated but where you can still see it. A&M seems to have terrible luck with refs against Auburn in particular.)

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7736945/garrettwhipkirkland.0.gif is fairly light in comparison

[Altherion]

40 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

That seems so subjective.  I wonder if any of them calculate the actual distance since the ball tends to travel diagonally across the field unless the QB is throwing it up the middle. 

I think air yards is the closest you'll be able to find (yards past the line of scrimmage to when the receiver catches it).  Personally, I don't think it's all that useful.  I'd rather have Brady any day of the week, who can reliably work underneath/intermediate routes to guys in space or place it in the right spot so they can run after catching the ball in stride.  Compare that with Jameis Winston, who is getting an extra 0.6 yards of air travel per attempt, but due to imperfect ball placement ends up a full yard per attempt behind Brady in terms of actual production

I completely agree with you that it is not very useful as any kind of performance metric and yes, ideally one would look at the diagonal. The reason I brought it up is that Maithanet was saying that regressing even a bit in arm strength would make Brady much less dangerous so I wanted to know the distance at which he can effectively throw the ball right now. He can clearly throw 20-30 yard passes (he threw a bunch of them yesterday) and possibly even 40 yard ones (per the video), but can he throw a 50 yard one or even a Rodgers-like 80 yard Hail Mary?

On a lighter and completely unrelated note, Belichick has apparently gotten tired of renaming and repainting his boat and donated it to a non-profit public sailing center. The boat was originally named "V Rings", but then needed to be renamed "VI Rings" in 2015.

[dbunting]

17 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

But, I don't know that people hate the Pat's in the same manner as the Boys'. I think people, in general, have respect for what they do and how they do it.

It's like in Simmons (RockRoi?) last article he was asked something about trading Groningen. And, he responded by saying there is no way he would, but Belcher? If someone want to make a splash and get a guy like Groningen and are willing to over pay for him, Belcher will take that trade in a heartbeat, and I agree he will. He's a genius and the have the greatest QB of all-time. 

The Cowboys, they are and have always been easy to hate. Jerry Jones, Cocaine Wonderland of the 80's and 90's. They are just easy to hate.

Right, that's my point, I hope the Patriots get to be easy to hate also. The Patriots should be easy to hate, they are successful and have the all American QB, has their share of scandals, a great mind as a coach and a owner who wants to win and will do what it takes. What's not to hate about that?! I will say though, Patriots fans may already be getting the "haters" and I just don't realize it because I am not one of them.

 

Also, one last take about the SB. How great was it to see the Falcons owner down on the sidelines for the entire 4th quarter watching it slip away? I hate it when the owner does that and to see the look on his face was priceless. Don't get me wrong, everything I hear about the guy is that he is a good guy and really loves his team, but stay in the owners box until it's all over.

[sperry]

Brady was getting a ton of air under his deep balls in that game, and they didn't even try the Hail Mary from the 35. That being said, if you are accurate as him you don't need a cannon. He reminds me of where Peyton was at in the Broncos years. Arm wasn't strong, but it didn't matter. I would guess Brady has 2-3 years of effective QB play left in him.

[Cas Stark]

Manning literally could not throw at all during his Bronco years, especially the last couple....I don't see Brady being at that level of decline, and he has never been known for the crazy cannon arm anyway.

[sperry]

16 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Manning literally could not throw at all during his Bronco years, especially the last couple....I don't see Brady being at that level of decline, and he has never been known for the crazy cannon arm anyway.

 

The last year, he could not throw. The first 3 years when he put up historically good stats he could absolutely throw. His arm wasn't strong, but it was strong enough.

[Maithanet]

19 minutes ago, sperry said:

Brady was getting a ton of air under his deep balls in that game, and they didn't even try the Hail Mary from the 35. That being said, if you are accurate as him you don't need a cannon. He reminds me of where Peyton was at in the Broncos years. Arm wasn't strong, but it didn't matter. I would guess Brady has 2-3 years of effective QB play left in him.

In 2012, 2013 and the first half of the 2014 season, Manning looked awesome.  And then he just completely fell apart.  Peyton Manning, first 7 games of 2014:  22 tds, 3 ints, awesome.  Final 9 games:  17 tds, 12 ints, terrible. 

Yes, part of that decline was because of injuries rather than general aging, but that is part of playing as an old man, that you don't recover nearly as quickly at 39 as you did ten years ago.  And in the 2015 offseason people said that the end of 2014 was an injury driven fluke, and Manning would be back to himself in 2015.  Instead 2015 was even worse, and he retires (Von Miller gave him a second SB ring as a momento).

[sperry]

5 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

In 2012, 2013 and the first half of the 2014 season, Manning looked awesome.  And then he just completely fell apart.  Peyton Manning, first 7 games of 2014:  22 tds, 3 ints, awesome.  Final 9 games:  17 tds, 12 ints, terrible. 

Yes, part of that decline was because of injuries rather than general aging, but that is part of playing as an old man, that you don't recover nearly as quickly at 39 as you did ten years ago.  And in the 2015 offseason people said that the end of 2014 was an injury driven fluke, and Manning would be back to himself in 2015.  Instead 2015 was even worse, and he retires (Von Miller gave him a second SB ring as a momento).

 

I don't know that you're arguing with me, but that's what I'm saying. Brady looks like Manning did in the first three Broncos seasons. (2 1/2 if you want to say he sucked the last half of 2014). Manning's arm wasn't strong during that period, but it was strong enough to get the job done with great accuracy. That's what I've seen out of Brady of late. I think it's realistic to expect him to be able to hold up for another 2-3 years, which is exactly in line with his 5 year timeline that he mentioned in the emails that were made public where he was saying Manning is on the way out but I've got 5 years left.

[Maithanet]

3 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

I don't know that you're arguing with me, but that's what I'm saying. Brady looks like Manning did in the first three Broncos seasons. (2 1/2 if you want to say he sucked the last half of 2014). Manning's arm wasn't strong during that period, but it was strong enough to get the job done with great accuracy. That's what I've seen out of Brady of late. I think it's realistic to expect him to be able to hold up for another 2-3 years, which is exactly in line with his 5 year timeline that he mentioned in the emails that were made public where he was saying Manning is on the way out but I've got 5 years left.

But if Brady looks like Manning did in 2012, 2013 and early 2014 (and I agree he does), why would you assume he has 2-3 years left?  He's already older than Manning was when he took his final snap.  I'm saying that just because Brady is great right now doesn't mean his decline isn't right around the corner.  He could play another three years, or he could take a couple hard hits in September and never be good again.  You never know.  Based on the example of every other quarterback in history, when the the decline happens, it happens fast.  There's no "couple of years of pretty good play limited by arm strength".  It's awesome season followed by terrible season and retirement. 

[Rockroi]

Ah, like clockwork, the "Brady has (insert arbitrary number here) years left in him" discussions have begun.  Comforting, really. 

Manning's last season is so unbelievably bad it defies description.  He had 17 picks... in 10 games.  That's true talent right there. For the last four years of his career- while being surrounded by premium NFL talent at almost every position - Manning's numbers ranged from "Incredible" (2013) to "Oh My God, I Can't Look, This Is So Sad, Its Like Rooting For That Special Needs Kid to Just Score One Bucket So the Other Team Passes Him The Ball and The Kid Can Make One Shot Uncontested." (2015).  His 2012 season was very strong but his 2014 season was illustrative of a QB in decline.  

The last four season's of Manning's career (with the understanding that Manning's #1 and #2 WRs are superior to Brady's #1 and #2 WRs, and that Manning actually had a running game):

1443 of 2170 (66%) 17,112 yards, 140 TDs v. 53 Ints (2.6 Tds for every 1 INT), Passer Rating of 101.7.

Last 4 season's of Brady's career:

1446 of 2266 (64%), 16,776 yards, 122 TDs v. 29 INTs (4.2 TDs for every 1 INT), Passer rating of 98.7.  

A few things that need explaining: Manning was benched in 2015; the technical reason was "I Can't Take This; Its Like Watching Willie Mays in a Cubs Uniform.  He's Embarrassing Himself Out There" (or a shoulder, I can't exactly recall).  He missed 6 games; Brady missed 4 games in 2016 because the Commissioner, in effect, said so. But Mannning's best seasons in this four-year window were BETTER than Brady's best seasons in this same window.  Also, generally, Manning's passer ratings were about in his statistical norm which was, generally, better than Brady's.  

However, overall, Manning's stats are generally similar to Brady's- he has more yards (336 yards or something like 21 yards per game over the span of a single season) and a slightly better passer rating (3 points).  But the overwhelming area where Manning is behind Brady is INTs and the INT to TD ration.  Manning threw 23 more picks in 2 fewer games. Obviously, overall, Brady is doing better now than Manning was in his last 4 seasons; and even though Manning was older, Manning's decline had already started at the age Brady is now.  I also think Brady's game is more forgiving.  Watching the game Sunday, Brady's ugliest passes were NOT the result of weak arm strength but of mistiming.  Generally speaking, Brady's arm strength is fantastic; while he is not gunning the ball down field, he does put his throws on a rope and can slam them into small windows (ie: the one pass Edleman caught in OTR, super strong strike while Edleman was well covered).  Also, the passes he was throwing to Amendola were a variety of perfect timing to just gunning them in there.  Manning in 2014 was no longer able to do that; by 2015 he was reduced to hoping his guys would come down with it.  So, no, actually, I tyhink Brady is throwing the ball BETTER than Manning was in 2014 and absolutely better than he was in 2015 (if you could call what he was doing 'throwing'; sometimes, it got so quiet at Mile High that after Manning threw one of his patented ducks, you could hear a small girl screaming out something like this.

The issue is that we just don't know when that moment will be for Brady.  Sure, I would love to think he will never get old like Dick Clark or Dwight Freeney, but if Brady's 2017 is anything like Manning's 2015, fuck that, Brady is getting cut or riding the pine.  I just think that, like with Manning, once Brady starts the decline, its not going to be a "soft landing"; its instead going to resemble stock prices circa October 1929.  

But in all honesty and all kidding aside, I think Brady is doing better at this stage of his career than was Manning so I actually think he's significantly better than Manning was at this similar time in Manning's career.  But, like Manning, once the decline begins (and it has not yet), like with Manning, it is not going to stop and Brady is going to look, potentially, as bad as Manning.  

[Altherion]

SBNation has a blog for every NFL team and most of them had a live thread for discussing the Superb Owl. I've skimmed a few of them and while the overall reaction was similar, there were a few team-specific quirks:

• Several Giants fans were happy because the Giants remained the only team to beat the Patriots in the Superb Owl.
• Several Steelers fans said that while they hate the Patriots in general and Brady in particular, they have no choice but to acknowledge his greatness.
• Several Colts fans wondered whether Pagano had surreptitiously joined the Falcons coaching staff.
• Practically all Broncos fans reveled in the apparent triumph of the Falcons and were crestfallen at the resolution. There were no acknowledgments of the Patriots' greatness; they appear to genuinely hate the Patriots and were angry at the Falcons for failing to close out the win. A couple of them went as far as to say that this is worse than Denver's blowout Superb Owl loss from a few years ago.

I am curious, is Broncos fans antipathy towards the Patriots specific to that one community or do most Denver fans feel this way and, if the latter, why? They don't seem like natural rivals to me; the only thing that comes to mind is that the offensive coordinator of the Patriots went to be head coach in Denver, did not do well and returned to the Patriots, but this is hardly a unique circumstance.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 hours ago, Altherion said:

SBNation has a blog for every NFL team and most of them had a live thread for discussing the Superb Owl. I've skimmed a few of them and while the overall reaction was similar, there were a few team-specific quirks:

• Several Giants fans were happy because the Giants remained the only team to beat the Patriots in the Superb Owl.
• Several Steelers fans said that while they hate the Patriots in general and Brady in particular, they have no choice but to acknowledge his greatness.
• Several Colts fans wondered whether Pagano had surreptitiously joined the Falcons coaching staff.
• Practically all Broncos fans reveled in the apparent triumph of the Falcons and were crestfallen at the resolution. There were no acknowledgments of the Patriots' greatness; they appear to genuinely hate the Patriots and were angry at the Falcons for failing to close out the win. A couple of them went as far as to say that this is worse than Denver's blowout Superb Owl loss from a few years ago.

I am curious, is Broncos fans antipathy towards the Patriots specific to that one community or do most Denver fans feel this way and, if the latter, why? They don't seem like natural rivals to me; the only thing that comes to mind is that the offensive coordinator of the Patriots went to be head coach in Denver, did not do well and returned to the Patriots, but this is hardly a unique circumstance.

I would say that the Donks have been the Pats most recent foil in the AFC and they've most likely latched onto that fact. Last four Superb Owls have been either the Broncos or the Pats repping the AFC. And more often than not it's been those two teams in the AFC championship game.