NFL Superbowl: Dont Waste My Overtime

[Rockroi]

There's a Greater-Than-Zero Percent Chance Derrelle Revis is a Terrorist.

[DanteGabriel]

2 hours ago, Rockroi said:

There's a Greater-Than-Zero Percent Chance Derrelle Revis is a Terrorist.

Two years ago, Revis was the alpha dog on a Super Bowl winning defense. Now he's got random commenters making "surprised he caught up with the other guy" jokes on the Deadspin story about his arrest.

[Joe Pesci]

15 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Pro Football Talk has been trying to fight the TO misinformation campaign. Look, he was a dick. He created headaches for his teams. But people are saying that teams couldn't wait to get rid of him, no one wanted to extend his contract, even though he played 8 years for the Niners and the Cowboys also wanted to extend him.

The numbers alone should sell it. His performance on a broken leg in the Super Bowl was amazing. It's stupidity to keep TO out while Terrell "Three Year Wonder on Crooked Contracts" Davis got in. I guess if Terrell Davis is a Hall of Fame player, then Gronk has already punched his ticket, even if he never plays another game.

It's a very strange thing for Florio to do. He admitted that TO doesn't like him, yet he's taking it like it's a personal insult to him that TO isn't in the HOF. Some may call it fighting the good fight, but Florio often seems like he just like to nip at the heels of the NFL media in general like he's some sort of leper outcast from their society.

I agree on TO, the numbers speak for themselves and there's no doubt TO should be in. I'd have put him in this year over Davis and Warner. I have a tough time with guys being considered HOF players based off of only 2-3 really great seasons, but that's my opinion. I guess if TO wants in next year, he should try landing a gig on the NFL Network.

[Rhom]

3 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

It's a very strange thing for Florio to do. He admitted that TO doesn't like him, yet he's taking it like it's a personal insult to him that TO isn't in the HOF. Some may call it fighting the good fight, but Florio often seems like he just like to nip at the heels of the NFL media in general like he's some sort of leper outcast from their society.

I agree on TO, the numbers speak for themselves and there's no doubt TO should be in. I'd have put him in this year over Davis and Warner. I have a tough time with guys being considered HOF players based off of only 2-3 really great seasons, but that's my opinion. I guess if TO wants in next year, he should try landing a gig on the NFL Network.

This, definitely.

The Hall of Fame turns into the "Hall of Guys We Really Like and had a Good Season or Two."  Is Matt Ryan a Hall of Famer?  Because I really think if I take his best couple of years and match them up to Warner's best couple; it would be hard to make a distinction.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I think the issue with TO is that off-the-field stuff did actually affect his teams' performances in a negative way.

But yeah, he definitely deserves to be the Hall of Fame, espceially over Jerry Fucking Jones.

[sperry]

The stupidity of the media just never ceases to amaze me. They ding TO for being a diva, while Marvin Harrison was a more competent Aaron Hernandez and just got elected.

[DanteGabriel]

18 minutes ago, sperry said:

The stupidity of the media just never ceases to amaze me. They ding TO for being a diva, while Marvin Harrison was a more competent Aaron Hernandez and just got elected.

A lot of it seems to hinge on how nice the athlete was to reporters. I'm sure Marvin Harrison was as deferential and respectful to reporters as he was to defensive backs covering him in the playoffs.

[Jaime L]

12 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I am more or less on board with all of this. TO was a special brand of self-destructive crazy/needy. He should be criticized for attacking his quarterbacks, and I don't really have words for his driveway workout session. But he also got way too much shit for some innocuous stuff. The Sharpie and the pom-poms were fun. I thought the Cowboys star was good high drama. And oh my fuck, the outrage over his promo with Nicolette Sheridan was ridiculous.

I probably remember him more distinctly than you because of my Niners affection. I still remember his game-winning catch against the Packers in the playoffs in his rookie year, where he'd dropped everything else that day, but Young came back to him at the end and he held on to it despite taking as hard a sandwich hit as I've ever seen a receiver take.

That catch was amazing and really launched him as a star in the league. And of course I had no issue with his repeated disrespect of the Cowboys star (though made it especially funny when he later became a Cowboy, like pretty much every single one of Trump's tweets from before he became president.) 

Although, that reminds me, TO started out his career playing with Jerry Rice. Man, if you can't learn how to be a professional after that, you are hopeless. 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Although, that reminds me, TO started out his career playing with Jerry Rice. Man, if you can't learn how to be a professional after that, you are hopeless. 

 I think that's kind of key here. Steve Young is a weekly guest on the drive time show on KNBR, and he claims that TO was an exemplary teammate during his time with the Niners. That he worked harder than anybody (including Rice) and really listened to his veteran mentors and whatnot. He says that it wasn't until the Dallas Star incident that the team had any issues with him. Seems to me once he got away from all that veteran guidance he kind of lost his way a little bit. That said, he'll get in the Hall. It's just a matter of time.

[Rockroi]

10 minutes ago, sperry said:

The stupidity of the media just never ceases to amaze me. They ding TO for being a diva, while Marvin Harrison was a more competent Aaron Hernandez and just got elected.

I have to say that's a pretty powerful sentiment.  

My thoughts fall in line with many others on the board: the guy shredded teammates and QBs at his leisure.  He was utterly destructive and brought distension to most locker rooms.  

But lets look at this:

Owens
15 seasons, 1078 receptions, 15,934 yards, 153 TDs (+3 rushing), 11 fumbles.  

All of the following players are in the HoF:
Michael Irvin
12 seasons, 750 receptions, 11,904 yards, 65 TDs, 7 fumbles 
Steve Largent 
14 seasons, 819 receptions, 13,089 yards, 100 Tds (+1 rushing), 17 fumbles.  
Cris Carter 
16 seasons, 1101 receptions, 13,899 yards, 130 TDs, 17 fumbles
James Lofton
17 seasons, 764 receptions, 14,004 yards, 75 TDs (+1 rushing), 16 fumbles
Tim Brown
17 seasons, 1094 receptions, 14,934 yards, 100 TDs, (+1 rushing), 33 fumbles 
Marvin Harrison
13 season 1102 receptions, 14,580 yards, 129 TDs, 12 fumbles 

Others Not in the HoF… yet:

Reggie Wayne
14 seasons 1070 receptions, 82 Tds, 10 fumbles 
Randy Moss
16 seasons, 982 receptions, 156 TDs, 16 fumbles 
Isaac Bruce 
16 seasons, 1024 reception, 15,208 yards, 91 Tds, 16 fumbles 

Now a few REALLY boarder-line HoF guys for perspective:

Chad Johnson
11 seasons, 766 receptions, 11,059 yards, 67 TDs, 7 fumbles
Donald Driver
14 seasons, 764 receptions, 10,137 yards, 61 TDs, 8 fumbles
Mushin Muhammad
14 seasons, 860 receptions, 11,438 yards, 62 TDs, 15 fumbles.  

I mean, its not even close.  If you look at OWnes' numbers, they OBLITERATE guys already in the Hall- and from the same era; I did not post numbers from guys like Paul Warfield of Lance Allworth - both in the HoF.  

But the big thing are guys in that alst list.  You have to ask: was Terrell Owens a Receiver like Steve Largent, Cris Carter and Marwin Harrison. or was he like Chad Johnson, Donald Driver and Mushin Muhammad?  And would you vote for guys like them before Owens?  

The answers to those questions are self-explanatory.  And if anyone votes for those three guys before Owens, something is wrong. 

Here is what I think happened- writers just don't like Owens. So when they voted, they did not prioritize a vote for him.  That's wrong to do, but I do not see it persisting as a practice.  I think he'll make it in the next year or so even though next's year's class is stacked.  

 

[dbunting]

Personally I think the Owens thing is just ridiculous. The guy was as good if not better than every single receiver of his era. Put up stats equal to or better than anyone ever. He was never arrested, AFAIK, was never accused of PED's etc. Yeah he was a whiney diva toward the end of his career, so what. You put him on the field and he would die to get the job done.

[Kalbear]

The NFL's media and culture of putting literal criminals in the HoF who have been involved with murders but not putting in people because they were outspoken is pretty much par for the course with the NFL. It's far worse to be disliked than it is to actually commit crimes. 

[Rhom]

9 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

The NFL's media and culture of putting literal criminals in the HoF who have been involved with murders but not putting in people because they were outspoken is pretty much par for the course with the NFL. It's far worse to be disliked than it is to actually commit crimes. 

There's a statue of Ray Louis in Baltimore.

I don't think we need to say anything else.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

41 minutes ago, Rhom said:

There's a statue of Ray Lewis in Baltimore.

I don't think we need to say anything else.

 He didn't kill no mother-fucking lions...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1yzeo_tv-funhouse-ray-lewis_fun

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

On Owen's personality and how it rubbed people the wrong way; I remember seeing a special in 2004 that ESPN did on him and his upbringing and it helped shed some light on how he became the T.O. we know today. He was a really reclusive child who was picked on a lot for a number of things, but what stood out most to him was that he was always harassed because his skin pigmentation was darker than all the other kids growing up with him and he always felt extremely ugly because of this. This self-loathing continued for a long time after high school, but by the time he had reached the NFL it had by and large faded away. Then, once he started to became a budding star he started to let out all the personality that he had been holding back for years, and so in a sense the pendulum swung heavily away from a scared reclusive child to an ultra-cocky superstar athlete and he was never really able to find a happy medium. 

[Bronn Stone]

Rotoworld is reporting Trent Richardson has been arrested for domestic violence.

He only peripherally qualifies for an NFL thread, but I think someone at Rotoworld needs to work on sensitivity in headlines..

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/354581/trent-richardson-popped-for-domestic-violence?ls=roto:FA:topheadlines

[Joe Pesci]

3 hours ago, Bronn Stone said:

Rotoworld is reporting Trent Richardson has been arrested for domestic violence.

He only peripherally qualifies for an NFL thread, but I think someone at Rotoworld needs to work on sensitivity in headlines..

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/354581/trent-richardson-popped-for-domestic-violence?ls=roto:FA:topheadlines

This is certainly going to end his run as Jace's favorite RB of all time...

[Jace, Extat]

Regarding the hall of fame, 'cause I guess that's where this thread is at these days, I follow my dad's reasoning which is "It's the hall of fame. Not the hall of numbers."

 Lots of good players can put up good numbers if they play the game long enough, you want your hall of fame to be filled with people who were responsible (in a good way) to the state of the game when they played. That definitely includes Terrell Owens. And it includes Kurt Warner and Terrell Davis, who's stories were brief but powerful and essential to the overall narrative of football in their prime. 

Put the simplest way I can imagine, I'd say this: 

Marvin Harrison belongs in the hall of fame. He was the highest producing WR for one of the best offenses for the better part of a decade. People remember Marvin Harrison lighting DB's not named Ty Law on fire for some of the most insane catches and plays we've ever seen (ask Denver). He was a superstar in every sense of the word. And we remember how incredible it was that every time he played the Patriots he disappeared. To. This. Day. It remains a feat unrivaled that Belichick and his early-mid 'aughts defenses did that to such a great player. It's part of the Patriots legacy, it's part of the Colts legacy, it's a part of football.

Reggie Wayne might not belong in the hall of fame. He was an incredible #2 option for one of the best offenses for the better part of a decade and a top-10 talent at his position almost every season after 2006. But nobody really remembers Reggie Wayne changing narratives about any team. He was a great player on a great team, and if taking off-field allegations into account easily my favorite Colt I got to watch. But is Reggie Wayne essential to explaining the success of the Colts at any point other than in Luck's rookie year as a still-good veteran? Probably not. If someone asked you to explain the football since Y2K you have to mention the Colts at the very least as a foil of the Patriots and you have to mention Tarik Glenn and Edgerrin James and Marvin Harrison and Manning and Dwight Freeney and even Robert Mathis. But Reggie Wayne is an afterthought, never a narrative. 

 

That's how I look at the HoF, for whatever it's worth. And Owens belongs there, but this angst about him getting snubbed for being an asshole is a bit much I think. 

[Jace, Extat]

11 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

This is certainly going to end his run as Jace's favorite RB of all time...

It certainly ends any and all sympathy I may have felt for the way his life fell apart.

[Joe Pesci]

18 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

It certainly ends any and all sympathy I may have felt for the way his life fell apart.

Yeah things unfortunately went downhill quickly for him. Probably happens more than we know of too.

In other NFL related crime news, Revis Watch 2017 ended as he turned himself in earlier this evening. Even as a hometown guy, I'd still like to see him get what he deserves from the law, but it probably won't pan out that way. The local news was covering this like he had committed a double homicide instead of being in a fight on the streets of the South Side, which is a common occurrence down there on the weekends with all of the bar room heroes spilling out on the streets at 2 am. All of the conflicting stories should at least make this interesting for the weekend coverage until the inevitable reduction in charges occurs and he gets the Joey Porter treatment and slapped on the wrist. What those two guys who were following him around and filming him learned the hard way is, quite simply, you don't fuck with people from Aliquippa.