LordMiddleFinger Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 I am sure this has been discussed many times already but i thought I'd give my two cents on the matter and hear your thoughts about this awesome character and what you think will become of him. We all know he was taken prisoner by the Freys during the RW. Because of this his House is now basically divided. Whoresbane Umber has sided with the Boltons and is now "loyal" to Roose Bolton. Mors Umber joins Stannis The Mannis and he is now "loyal" to The Mannis. I wonder what would happen if Greatjon were to... die? We all heard the theory that the Umber Coat of Arms with the big, roaring giant with broken chains around his wrists is actually foreshadowing of what's to come. Greatjon Umber will get so mad that he will use his incredible strength to break his chains and kill some Frey scum with his bare hands and then escape from The Twins. I do think that some of this will indeed happen... but Greatjon will not escape. He will break out of his cell, kill some Frey guards... but after that he won't try and sneak out of The Twins. This is a man who has been a prisoner for quite some time now. The Freys and the Boltons killed his eldest son and heir, they betrayed the North, they killed his King! This is a man who is angry as hell! Obsessed with revenge. He will try to kill Walder Frey and any other Frey he can get his hands on. He might kill a few of Walder's sons and/or grandsons, some Frey soldiers... but unless he just happens to stumble on Lord Walder while he is all alone with no one there to protect him, Greatjon is not getting anywhere near him. If he charges towards Walder Frey while surrounded by Frey soldiers, Greatjon will die. Let's not forget that George R. R. Martin is not your typical writer. He isn't going to have one of the good guys escape, kill Walder Frey and then go back North. Greatjon will die. The question is, is this really a bad thing? Yes we all love him and he is such a great character and we all want him to live and to be free again... which is why Martin is going to kill him off. What happens after he's dead? Well House Umber will have enough and they will turn on the Boltons, the Northern Lords will be so pissed when they hear about this that they won't continue to just sit on their asses and wait for other hostages to be killed as well. The Crown has made fools of them all. The Lannisters promised that as long as they remain loyal they will not harm the hostages. The Northern Lords won't believe them anymore and they will all side with Stannis ( if he wins The Battle of Winterfell ) or with Jon, if he comes back in the next book. Share your thoughts and feel free to tell me how "fucking stupid and wrong i am about this". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Xyn Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Possible. But very few of the northern houses are likely to actually be loyal to the Boltons. Manderlys and half (most likely all but that's conjecture) the Umbers definitely aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Yozza Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 The GreatJon doesn't need to die to turn to the Northmen against the Boltons/Frey's/Lannister's. Pretty much the entire North is already set to join Stannis. Furthermore, Jaime has ordered all the prisoners be escorted to KL. To do so, they're going to have to pass through the Ruby Ford (where Kyle Condon and his 600 men were last seen) and Brotherhood territory. Umber breaking the chains could happen during a rescue (which I'm 70% certain is going to happen). Don't get me wrong, I don't think he'll live to see the end, but I think he'll last a bit longer yet. At this point his death would be a waste if used for the reason you gave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jthurman14 Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 There is a lot of potential for The GreatJon as a plot tool. His life or death can swing the balance of power away from the boltons/freys/crown. If he is murdered do not discount the fallout all over the 7 kingdoms. The Lannisters friendship with many is hanging by a thread. To kill a major Landholder would not sit well with many, not just the North. Love the character though, thanks for bringing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 The Greatjon might not be at the Twins anymore. Jaime told Edwyn to send word to Walder Frey that "the crown requires all his prisoners" (AFfC, Jaime VI). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seams Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Great Jon will be part of the Lyanna Mormont mindset: Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is Stark. He (and the other Umbers) may be a symbol of the North, actually. Right now, the North is a sort of hostage of the Boltons and the Lannisters. I do think Great Jon will be liberated and that he might team up with Lord Davos Seaworth if Davos finds Rickon. But I agree that he won't survive the end of the series. The North will survive in some way, shape or form, but it will be an Umber heir who takes over as Lord of Last Hearth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous22 Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 I like the first part of your theory OP, but I'm quietly hoping that a lot of hostages will actually end up in the hands of the BWB. It's stupid, but I really like the idea that the small band of soldiers Ned dispatches to resolve the pillaging in the Riverlands in book one end up as a massive army that fights purely for law and order. LS makes that very difficult. But it's a nice idea. That combined with Nymeria's wolf pack means Ned and Arya essentially screwed the Lannisters and Freys years ago without actually intending to do so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 I would like to see the Great Jon being brought up from the dungeon after 2 years starving and weak and being offered his freedom by Black Walder or another equally vile Frey for his cooperation and they loosen his shackles not expecting a man who has lost over 80 pounds and so weak to be a threat to anyone and the Great Jon jumps up and bites this said Freys throat out and is then killed by Frey guards. This would be an awesome way to go if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Blackfyre IV Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Jamie Lannister is about to become a hostage Umbers are not on the Bolton side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 The Freys may have a more practical use for the Greatjon. They can trade him back to the north, reason why they are keeping him tucked in the Twins. I don't think George has a heroic deed for the Greatjon, because I don't think he believes in lone thriller action scenes. Or, if he indulges in one, he makes it end in a pathetic way. Just remember Quentyn and Mero. Specially Mero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindsayLohan Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 5 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said: The Freys may have a more practical use for the Greatjon. They can trade him back to the north, reason why they are keeping him tucked in the Twins. I don't think George has a heroic deed for the Greatjon, because I don't think he believes in lone thriller action scenes. Or, if he indulges in one, he makes it end in a pathetic way. Just remember Quentyn and Mero. Specially Mero. Yep. Jaime also tried to go all "Last Action Hero" when his army was destroyed at the Whispering Wood, thinking he'd just kill everyone en route to Robb and win the war. Unfortunately, GRRM knows there is no Contra Code in real life, and Jaime got captured (eventually getting his hand cut off). Nobody goes Beast Mode in ASOIAF, except when Jorah is motivated by teenage ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 1:33 PM, kissdbyfire said: The Greatjon might not be at the Twins anymore. Jaime told Edwyn to send word to Walder Frey that "the crown requires all his prisoners" (AFfC, Jaime VI). Sounds a like a rescue action by the BWB is in order. It will be interesting to see GreatJon's reaction to LSH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said: Sounds a like a rescue action by the BWB is in order. It will be interesting to see GreatJon's reaction to LSH. Yeah, I think that is one of the most likely scenarios. And definitely, if it happens it will be very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMiddleFinger Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 3:54 PM, Praetor Xyn said: Possible. But very few of the northern houses are likely to actually be loyal to the Boltons. Manderlys and half (most likely all but that's conjecture) the Umbers definitely aren't. Lord Wyman Manderly despises Roose Bolton. The Umbers despise Roose Bolton. I think this has pretty much been confirmed, the Umbers are working against the Boltons and even Roose Bolton seems to suspect this. The question is are the Umbers and the Manderlys working together in some way and are other Northern Houses in on this.. Anyway my point is that if Greatjon dies, all of the other Northern Lords will stop pretending that they are loyal to the Boltons and to the Crown. Which is why i think that Greatjon has to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMiddleFinger Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 4:15 PM, Adam Yozza said: The GreatJon doesn't need to die to turn to the Northmen against the Boltons/Frey's/Lannister's. Pretty much the entire North is already set to join Stannis. Furthermore, Jaime has ordered all the prisoners be escorted to KL. To do so, they're going to have to pass through the Ruby Ford (where Kyle Condon and his 600 men were last seen) and Brotherhood territory. Umber breaking the chains could happen during a rescue (which I'm 70% certain is going to happen). Don't get me wrong, I don't think he'll live to see the end, but I think he'll last a bit longer yet. At this point his death would be a waste if used for the reason you gave. It's possible, of course. I doubt the Freys will give up Greatjon though, he is just too valuable plus he's just too strong and too wild, no way that he is going to just allow the Freys to transfer him to Lannister custody without putting up a fight. They would probably have to kill him because i doubt they could just knock him out the man is a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMiddleFinger Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 6:23 PM, jthurman14 said: There is a lot of potential for The GreatJon as a plot tool. His life or death can swing the balance of power away from the boltons/freys/crown. If he is murdered do not discount the fallout all over the 7 kingdoms. The Lannisters friendship with many is hanging by a thread. To kill a major Landholder would not sit well with many, not just the North. Love the character though, thanks for bringing it up. No problem man. I love him too. Probably my favorite Northern Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMiddleFinger Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 7:33 PM, kissdbyfire said: The Greatjon might not be at the Twins anymore. Jaime told Edwyn to send word to Walder Frey that "the crown requires all his prisoners" (AFfC, Jaime VI). Walder Frey "I'm keeping Greatjon". Jaime doesn't have time to deal with Walder Frey anyway... he is about to become a prisoner himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMiddleFinger Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 8:12 PM, Seams said: Great Jon will be part of the Lyanna Mormont mindset: Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is Stark. He (and the other Umbers) may be a symbol of the North, actually. Right now, the North is a sort of hostage of the Boltons and the Lannisters. I do think Great Jon will be liberated and that he might team up with Lord Davos Seaworth if Davos finds Rickon. But I agree that he won't survive the end of the series. The North will survive in some way, shape or form, but it will be an Umber heir who takes over as Lord of Last Hearth. I am glad he has more sons ( even though we are yet to meet the other sons ). Imagine if he only had one son, Smalljon, who was murdered at the RW. House Umber would be in serious trouble. I wonder if his other sons are as big as Greatjon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMiddleFinger Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 9:54 PM, Dolorous22 said: I like the first part of your theory OP, but I'm quietly hoping that a lot of hostages will actually end up in the hands of the BWB. It's stupid, but I really like the idea that the small band of soldiers Ned dispatches to resolve the pillaging in the Riverlands in book one end up as a massive army that fights purely for law and order. LS makes that very difficult. But it's a nice idea. That combined with Nymeria's wolf pack means Ned and Arya essentially screwed the Lannisters and Freys years ago without actually intending to do so! Actually i do agree with you that it would be very interesting if BWB ends up saving The Greatjon and the other hostages. Plus "That combined with Nymeria's wolf pack means Ned and Arya essentially screwed the Lannisters and Freys years ago without actually intending to do so!" Oh how sweet that would be... if only George wasn't such a damn sadist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMiddleFinger Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 11:09 PM, Stormking902 said: I would like to see the Great Jon being brought up from the dungeon after 2 years starving and weak and being offered his freedom by Black Walder or another equally vile Frey for his cooperation and they loosen his shackles not expecting a man who has lost over 80 pounds and so weak to be a threat to anyone and the Great Jon jumps up and bites this said Freys throat out and is then killed by Frey guards. This would be an awesome way to go if you ask me. Only a fool would consider Greatjon "weak". The man is HUGE! Angry as fuck and a natural born warrior. Any Frey who thinks that he is safe around Greatjon deserves to die in the most horrible way imaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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