Analyzing Prince Nymor's letter

[Leo of House Cartel]

Rhaenys is said to have died sometime around 10 AC (according to the wiki). Aegon then spends an extended period of time engaging in "The Dragons Wroth", two whole years of he and Balerion burning every dornish castle more than once (save for Sunspear, which went unburned entirely). The First Dornish War then ended in 13AC after The Dragon read the mysterious letter. The Conquerors reaction to the original news of his true loves death shows deep, primal passion and could tell us alot about Aegons connection to Rhaenys.

Had Prince Nymors letter contained news on Rhaenys aswell as some form of written proof, Aegons reaction could again be seen as passionate and somewhat loving, willing to give up potential total conrol of Westeros all for the chance he could end Rhaenys pain. Aegon had already had a taste of the Dornishmens nasty streak; at somepoint between 4 and 7 AC the notorious Wyls captured Aegons best friend and probable brother Orys Baratheon, along with many of his party. A ransom was paid in 7AC and the prisoners were freed, but Aegon wouldn't get what he paid for....You see The Dragon had handed over a probably hefty toll for his mens freedom and the Dornish presumeably had promised the men sworn to the Iron Throne safe passage in exchange for said ransom. Unfortunately for the Targaryens, the prisoners were indeed freed, but not before each man loyal to The Conqueror had their swords hands cut off. As we see from Jaimes POV, that's an especially brutal thing to do to any swordsman, and can cause serious mental issues. Orys was described to turn "Crabbed and Bitter" in the years that followed and I'm sure the men he was imprisoned with had similiar or worse issues.

The King of Westeros didn't entirely get what he paid for, his soldiers were delivered "incomplete", meaning Balerions Rider had been well and truly ripped off.Think about how this made him feel 6/7 years later when news of Rhaenys may have been delivered in that letter. Would Aegon, seeing how Orys had been treated, really believe that Dorne would "End Rhaenys Suffering?" The Dornish had taken Orys sword hand, taking one of the key elements that made him himself. If Rhaenys were to be returned, would she be whole? Many assume The Rider of Meraxes was enduring a nightmarish captivity, being raped and tortured by the Ullers for nigh on 3 years, so if Aegon stopped the war, what reason would he have to belive his Chosen Wife would not be severly mutilated and die soon anyway?

A plausible explanation is that House Martell had actually freed Rhaenys from her capture, and the letter contained something like "My forces have recovered Rhaenys, I request your audience in Sunspear". It is said Aegon read the letter then flew to Dragonstone, but do we have any proof he didn't fly to Dorne to perhaps see what had become of Rhaenys? Prince Nymor sent his daughter Deria as envoy to the Iron Throne. With her and her party was the skull of Meraxes. This itself was said to draw great ire from the court, with Orys, Visenya and Lord Oakheart in particular advocating violence on Deria.Yet it is said that Deria was still allowed to "place the letter in Aegons hand". Would a member of a House associated with poison really be permitted to be so close to Aegon? Considering both the fate of a full Baratheon regiment, aswell as the Dornishmens Tyrell-Scorpion madness, it would seem ridiculous to think any in the throne room would allow The Princess of Dorne so close as to "Place a letter" in Aegons Hand. And yet apparently she did, which could signify some positivity surrounding this situation.

[Protagoras]

I think all these suggestions suffers from the same problem, even if we assume that Aegon are willing to do this for his sister-wife (something I am still sceptical of).

That is, how can he trust the dornish. He has no reason to trust them and are unable to get any guarantees, right? Keeping the child alive, keeping her alive, painless death etc all suffers from this - he has no ability to know that that painless death won´t be a torture-fest, no reason to believe that an eventual childs skull isn´t crushed at the cliffs in Sea of Dorne and no reason to believe that said sister-wife will be able to live out her life in captivity. 

Still call plot reason on this one. 

[Leo of House Cartel]

Could Aegon perhaps have found out about Rhaenys captivity in 10AC? There would have been plenty reason for him to suspect this seeing as Meraxes skull was not delivered home untill 3 years later, aswell as the Ullers being known for violence. Rumours were probably already aflot around 10AC that Rhaenys may be imprisoned.  His burning of each Dornish castle, save Sunspear, could be maybe be seen as a response to Rhaenys captivity, something like "You torture my sister, I'lll torture your entire country".

Would Aegon,Visenya and Orys allow the truth about Rhaenys capture to get out? I'm not sure, but as much of The Conquerors control relied on "Power Residing Where People Believe", the news of Rhaenys being tortured in some Dornish Dungeon wouldn't exactly inspre fearor confidence amongst the Dragons subjects-Better to let people think she's dead and maybe find her yourself.

This could explain why Aegons hand was bleeding,why he took off on Balerions back that night, and why the war ended. If the letter contained confirmation of Rhaenys death, aswell as some kind of offer of parlay, Aegon could have flew to Sunspear, saw Rhaenys body and spoke with Nymor Martell, whos forces may have saved Rhaenys from the Ullers dungeon, Nymors regime would surley be different to his mothers, and such a good deed would be very beneficial for House Martell.

[DigUpHerBones]

Quote

C'mon dudes, why did Aegon's hand bleed when he read the letter? And why did he have to fly to Dragonstone and back before responding? 

1) because he was pissed AF. he clinched his fist so tightly around the letter his nails dug into his palms.

2) to check a candle, or their original cache of eggs brought from Valyria. whatever he saw in the candle, or that the fact their original cache of eggs was gone, made him realize the Dornish were a legit threat and he should abide.

i am going with their original cache. maybe Aegon got 2 back and the Dornish kept 1.  enough for Aegon to keep the line of dragons alive after his, and the Dornish will always have a wild card in their back pocket

[SeanF]

I don't find the Faceless Man theory convincing.  Once Aegon submitted to such blackmail, he would always be vulnerable.

I'm not convinced that putting Rhaenys out of her misery after years of torture would be much of a lever either.  Once she was dead, Aegon would have no reason to keep the peace, and every reason to avenge her.  And, he would be in a position to do dreadful things to Princess Deria.

[aryagonnakill#2]

None of it makes any sense.

As pointed out in this thread the presence of Princess Deria seems to indicate that it cannot be that Rhaenys is hostage, as the Dornish would have just given him a hostage of equal importance as their own.

On the other hand, what could Aegon have wanted on Dragonstone other than to confirm something that Rhaenys put in the letter?  I cannot think of anything.

As for Aegon going somewhere other than Dragonstone, well I am pretty sure Balerion is the type of thing that gets noticed and recorded by people, had he been seen in Dorne, maesters would've told the citadel.

1 hypothetical situation would be that the letter told Aegon he had just been poisoned when he touched it.  It would then go on to say that Dorne had an antidote and would provide it if he agreed to peace.  He could've flown to Dragonstone to consult with a pyromancer or someone there familiar with valyrian magic to see if there was anything else he could do, and when he realized there was not he went back and agreed to the peace.  Of course this would only work if you had to take the antidote regularly, and that makes it extremely far fetched.  If the antidote worked 1 off then he could just kill Deria and attack again.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

On 2/8/2017 at 9:45 AM, Protagoras said:

I think all these suggestions suffers from the same problem, even if we assume that Aegon are willing to do this for his sister-wife (something I am still sceptical of).

That is, how can he trust the dornish. He has no reason to trust them and are unable to get any guarantees, right? Keeping the child alive, keeping her alive, painless death etc all suffers from this - he has no ability to know that that painless death won´t be a torture-fest, no reason to believe that an eventual childs skull isn´t crushed at the cliffs in Sea of Dorne and no reason to believe that said sister-wife will be able to live out her life in captivity. 

Still call plot reason on this one. 

What if the Dornish sent the letter (written by Rhaenys) telling Aegon about the child, then sent Rhaenys to Dragonstone as proof but held her child hostage, then brought Rhaenys back to Dorne after the peace to be with her child and they both remained hostages. And Rhaenys could send Aegon a letter every once in a while or something to verify she is alive.

[Protagoras]

13 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

What if the Dornish sent the letter (written by Rhaenys) telling Aegon about the child, then sent Rhaenys to Dragonstone as proof but held her child hostage, then brought Rhaenys back to Dorne after the peace to be with her child and they both remained hostages. And Rhaenys could send Aegon a letter every once in a while or something to verify she is alive.

I suppose that had been possible - but if I had been Aegon, I would have thanked the gods for the dornish stupidity of sending Rhaenys to me, ignored the child (and who knows, maybe it wasn´t my child in the first place. Maybe she got raped in dornish captivity. Tbh - that I consider likely in any case since Rhaenys is an attractive woman and the dornish like to have creative and painful punishments who gives a lasting wound, like Orys hand) and continued the war (or agreeing to the peace, but keeping Rhaenys). 

Because me and Rhaenys can make more children later. And besides, Rhaenys might know where the kid is kept. That place is where we attack first.

And again, Aegon is the blood of the dragon. He might care enough for Rhaenys to end the war, but a recently born child? Come on!

[Vaedys Targaryen]

I personally have always believed that the letter was not written by Nymor, but by Rhaenys herself.

This may come off as annoyingly romantic, but I've kind of had this little theory that Rhaenys survived the fall and was being held captive for a while, but fell in love with someone (who, I can't really set myself on) and was pregnant and had given birth to person's child.

Rhaenys might've wanted to stay in Dorne with her new lover and raise her child with him, which would've promted her to write a letter to Aegon to make peace with Dorne so she, her lover and her child would be safe in Dorne.

That would explain why Aegon clenched his fist so hard when he read the letter that he bled and naturally he would be pissed that Rhaenys had fallen for someone else, but his love for her made him agree with it.

(I admit, it could also be because Rhaenys had seen the devastation that Aegon and Visenya had brought to the Dornish people which could've caused her to sympatise with them and want Aegon to stop the war.)

But it could also explain why Deria Martell was sent to deliver the letter, when literally anyone would have been a safer choice. Nymor Martell made a huge risk to his daughter and heir's safety by sending her to simply deliver a letter. What would he have done if Aegon had simply decided to keep Deria as a hostage and had her tortured and/or demanded that Rhaenys were to be exchanged for her? Sure, maybe Nymor had other children, but Deria was Deria; she was irreplacable and I do not for one second believe that anyone would send their own child, heir or not, to do such a risky mission without at least some reassurance that she would return safe and unharmed (maybe except Doran).

And that reassurance was given to them by Rhaenys.

Because part of me agrees with what Protagoras has said; why on earth would Aegon stop the war with Dorne if Rhaenys would never be returned to him alive (especially if there was a possibility that he might get her back alive if he simply acted fast enough)?

(Hell, if I were in one of the situations that Protagoras listed and Rhaenys had been tortured for three years and was going to be killed regardless of whether I stopped the war or not, I might've just felt like it should be me who put her out of her misery.)

I mean, Aegon was burning all the castles in Dorne, why should a possible mercy for Rhaenys stop him?

But also consider, what would be more likely to make Aegon so furious that he clenched his fist so hard that he bled and flew to Dragonstone in his rage, but still sign for peace: A letter saying that his beloved sister-wife is alive, but has been tortured and will be given a quick death if he signs for peace, or his beloved sister-wife is alive and well, but will be killed if he doesn't stop the war and should he stop the war, she will never return to him, or the letter is written by is beloved sister-wife, who says that she has fallen for someone and has their child and wishes for him to stop the war, "for the love that he bears her"?

 

This is just my little theory anyway, but personally, I am convinced that it involved Rhaenys.

[aryagonnakill#2]

2 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I personally have always believed that the letter was not written by Nymor, but by Rhaenys herself.

This may come off as annoyingly romantic, but I've kind of had this little theory that Rhaenys survived the fall and was being held captive for a while, but fell in love with someone (who, I can't really set myself on) and was pregnant and had given birth to person's child.

Rhaenys might've wanted to stay in Dorne with her new lover and raise her child with him, which would've promted her to write a letter to Aegon to make peace with Dorne so she, her lover and her child would be safe in Dorne.

That would explain why Aegon clenched his fist so hard when he read the letter that he bled and naturally he would be pissed that Rhaenys had fallen for someone else, but his love for her made him agree with it.

(I admit, it could also be because Rhaenys had seen the devastation that Aegon and Visenya had brought to the Dornish people which could've caused her to sympatise with them and want Aegon to stop the war.)

But it could also explain why Deria Martell was sent to deliver the letter, when literally anyone would have been a safer choice. Nymor Martell made a huge risk to his daughter and heir's safety by sending her to simply deliver a letter. What would he have done if Aegon had simply decided to keep Deria as a hostage and had her tortured and/or demanded that Rhaenys were to be exchanged for her? Sure, maybe Nymor had other children, but Deria was Deria; she was irreplacable and I do not for one second believe that anyone would send their own child, heir or not, to do such a risky mission without at least some reassurance that she would return safe and unharmed (maybe except Doran).

And that reassurance was given to them by Rhaenys.

Because part of me agrees with what Protagoras has said; why on earth would Aegon stop the war with Dorne if Rhaenys would never be returned to him alive (especially if there was a possibility that he might get her back alive if he simply acted fast enough)?

(Hell, if I were in one of the situations that Protagoras listed and Rhaenys had been tortured for three years and was going to be killed regardless of whether I stopped the war or not, I might've just felt like it should be me who put her out of her misery.)

I mean, Aegon was burning all the castles in Dorne, why should a possible mercy for Rhaenys stop him?

But also consider, what would be more likely to make Aegon so furious that he clenched his fist so hard that he bled and flew to Dragonstone in his rage, but still sign for peace: A letter saying that his beloved sister-wife is alive, but has been tortured and will be given a quick death if he signs for peace, or his beloved sister-wife is alive and well, but will be killed if he doesn't stop the war and should he stop the war, she will never return to him, or the letter is written by is beloved sister-wife, who says that she has fallen for someone and has their child and wishes for him to stop the war, "for the love that he bears her"?

 

This is just my little theory anyway, but personally, I am convinced that it involved Rhaenys.

Not bad at all, it would just be very difficult to keep that child secret in the future.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

9 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Not bad at all, it would just be very difficult to keep that child secret in the future.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

 

The reason why I first thought of this theory was because of the Daynes. Many of them have light hair and purple eyes and with Rhaenys being rumoured to have survived the fall but was never returned to Aegon and Visenya, I naturally assumed that perhaps the Daynes were descended from her, hence thir purple eyes.

My theory was disproven when GRRM said that that is not the reason why the Daynes have those features, but I still like my little theory.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

On 2/10/2017 at 11:38 AM, Protagoras said:

I suppose that had been possible - but if I had been Aegon, I would have thanked the gods for the dornish stupidity of sending Rhaenys to me, ignored the child (and who knows, maybe it wasn´t my child in the first place. Maybe she got raped in dornish captivity. Tbh - that I consider likely in any case since Rhaenys is an attractive woman and the dornish like to have creative and painful punishments who gives a lasting wound, like Orys hand) and continued the war (or agreeing to the peace, but keeping Rhaenys). 

Because me and Rhaenys can make more children later. And besides, Rhaenys might know where the kid is kept. That place is where we attack first.

And again, Aegon is the blood of the dragon. He might care enough for Rhaenys to end the war, but a recently born child? Come on!

First off, I think the desire to keep his child alive might be enough alone. Maybe not, but to say that's not even a possibility I think underestimates the potential for a father to care that much about his child. But if he cares enough about Rhaenys to end the war, as you suggest, he wouldn't just be motivated by his feelings for the child. He would have to consider how Rhaenys would feel about losing the child. She could have had a conversation with him on Dragonstone and begged him to make peace so she could leave him and be a hostage with the child. And that same info probably would have been the contents of the letter. In fact, if Aegon received a letter saying Rhaenys was alive but she begged him to give her up as a permanent hostage, that would be a good explanation for his emotional reaction. And maybe it wasn't Aegon's child at all and they did rape her to get her pregnant. That would be super devious.

[Protagoras]

10 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

First off, I think the desire to keep his child alive might be enough alone. Maybe not, but to say that's not even a possibility I think underestimates the potential for a father to care that much about his child. But if he cares enough about Rhaenys to end the war, as you suggest, he wouldn't just be motivated by his feelings for the child. He would have to consider how Rhaenys would feel about losing the child. She could have had a conversation with him on Dragonstone and begged him to make peace so she could leave him and be a hostage with the child. And that same info probably would have been the contents of the letter. In fact, if Aegon received a letter saying Rhaenys was alive but she begged him to give her up as a permanent hostage, that would be a good explanation for his emotional reaction. And maybe it wasn't Aegon's child at all and they did rape her to get her pregnant. That would be super devious.

hmm, I might be an unemotional person but still - Rhaenys needs to get her shit together. 

She is suffering from Stockholm syndrome and possible rape. And her will to keep said child is something that just should be ignored even if genuine. Not only is it politically disadvantageous, but a harmful emotional reaction based on the captivity. She need to understand that you cannot nor should not save everyone when the price is too high. And this is. 

In general, the idea of "the mothers love", is a myth. A mother instinct is not inborn and universal, it is a feeling. Nothing more.