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Jon snow must die

The battle for the dawn

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Hi! I was checking up on the others and realized they will go where ever they please unless a stark, or a snow, can rally enough support. they would have around

 

3119 wildlings at most, about 1000 actual warriors

100 giants

580 brothers of nw

200 thenns

6000 from the mountain clans and skagos

3000 manderlys

3000 men from tallhart,cerwyn,glover,hornwood,flint,stout,ryswell,and mormont

800 umbers

400 stark men in the riverlands.(if they make there way back north)

these men are about the only people they can count on. 16799!and this is subject to change with the battle of ice coming up. I know this is a fantasy but no way can they stop an army of hundreds of thousands. yes wights are organized but the numbers will overwhelm the host. there are at least 12 others left. I don't think the common man will have dragon glass or dragon steel. so who else is there? stannis? the vale lords and the riverlords? would the riverlords send the last of there men up north? i guesstimate around 8000 men that the riverlords can call on.I personnel don't think Dany will help. she is a self centered person who would rather fight a meaningless war then save the world what are your thoughts? correct me if i'm wrong please.

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14 hours ago, Jon snow must die said:

Hi! I was checking up on the others and realized they will go where ever they please unless a stark, or a snow, can rally enough support. they would have around

 

3119 wildlings at most, about 1000 actual warriors

100 giants

580 brothers of nw

200 thenns

6000 from the mountain clans and skagos

3000 manderlys

3000 men from tallhart,cerwyn,glover,hornwood,flint,stout,ryswell,and mormont

800 umbers

400 stark men in the riverlands.(if they make there way back north)

these men are about the only people they can count on. 16799!and this is subject to change with the battle of ice coming up. I know this is a fantasy but no way can they stop an army of hundreds of thousands. yes wights are organized but the numbers will overwhelm the host. there are at least 12 others left. I don't think the common man will have dragon glass or dragon steel. so who else is there? stannis? the vale lords and the riverlords? would the riverlords send the last of there men up north? i guesstimate around 8000 men that the riverlords can call on.I personnel don't think Dany will help. she is a self centered person who would rather fight a meaningless war then save the world what are your thoughts? correct me if i'm wrong please.

You are dead wrong on the last part. Sorry.

Good summary of the numbers nevertheless. I haven't kept track on them. My first comment is that in the battle of dawn every person counts. It's a zombie army in the end, so numbers count twice, one more here, one less there.

Few comments on specific numbers

- There must be more soldiers in White Harber. Manderly was seeing raising an army. My guess there are about 6000 people at arms there. Probably more giving that he has about 50 ships and using the typical scale, this would give about 5000 men only in the ships.

- There are more wildings in Hardhome and others with the Weeper and smaller factions. Depending how things go, they can add to the numbers.

- Some Dreadfort men should join.

- There are a like 1000 northmen astray in the riverlands. They may come back.

- Stannis is hiring sellswords. I pity them already.

- It always seemed to me that Vale will get involved, unwillingly maybe. They should be about 20k

- The Riverlands are pretty much exhausted, they won't help the north, but will get swallowed anyway.

Now, the battle-of-the-dawn won't be a battle in the classical term but a constant fight for survival. Wights, albeit horrific, are maybe the least of the threats in comparison to the cold, hunger and the 'white mists'.

 

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Dany is self centered? Lol, if she was that, she'd be in Westeros already adding to the chaos.

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I'm not sure it's a question of numbers, and strength of armies. The LAST hero was alone when he got help from the CotF. And then the Night Watch was formed. But the men seemed few and the situation desperate then.

After all what GRRM put in his books, I don't believe the Northmen alone will have to pay and die for this. A large majority of people are joyously murdering each other, are not preparing for the incoming dangers (both Ice and Fire). I feel they should be those who will die the most.

I feel the big question is: "How bad will it go?" Will the Long Night will be the continuous absence of the sun? I feel the humans are facing the wrath of the gods. They will survive by fixing their wrongs. Not by exercising still more of the violence they are using every day.

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Nice job on the numbers! If you are right and the 'living' side turns out to be militarily inferior then that would reaffirm long-standing suspicions that the finale of the books will not be decided by battles. (That does not mean there will be no battles between living and dead. But what resolves the conflict in the end may be something else.)

There are non-military strings to Martin's bow, other possibilities he can make use of for the finale:

We have a yet unclear but somehow existing relationship between Ice and Fire. We have unbalanced seasons. In the ice-arc of the story we have a boy who is developing some serious magical powers. In the fire-arc we also have characters with serious magical powers. We have mysterious background characters who have yet unrevealed plans (Quaithe, Marvyn, Bloodraven, the Faceless Men, the Citadel).

We have wildcards who may turn out to play larger roles than we yet foresee (Arya, Theon).

Most of all we have a hidden prince who may be the fulfillment of an old prophecy and is descended from ice and fire. We have important characters who took that prophecy very seriously (Jaehaerys II, Rhaegar, Aemon).

If we think of the Lord of the Rings there also the conflict was not resolved through battles. Yes, war did happen (as it probably will here) - but in the end Frodo, Sam and Gollum were the decisive factors. And we know GRRM is a big fan of Tolkien.

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On 2/11/2017 at 8:09 AM, BalerionTheCat said:

I'm not sure it's a question of numbers, and strength of armies. The LAST hero was alone when he got help from the CotF. And then the Night Watch was formed. But the men seemed few and the situation desperate then.

After all what GRRM put in his books, I don't believe the Northmen alone will have to pay and die for this. A large majority of people are joyously murdering each other, are not preparing for the incoming dangers (both Ice and Fire). I feel they should be those who will die the most.

I feel the big question is: "How bad will it go?" Will the Long Night will be the continuous absence of the sun? I feel the humans are facing the wrath of the gods. They will survive by fixing their wrongs. Not by exercising still more of the violence they are using every day.

I am quite sure the Last Hero was a Stark and he negotiated a peace treaty with the Singers/Children, there is much evidence that points to that. I don't think there will be any peace treaty this time.

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On 2/6/2017 at 8:21 PM, Jon snow must die said:

Hi! I was checking up on the others and realized they will go where ever they please unless a stark, or a snow, can rally enough support. they would have around

 

3119 wildlings at most, about 1000 actual warriors

100 giants

580 brothers of nw

200 thenns

6000 from the mountain clans and skagos

3000 manderlys

3000 men from tallhart,cerwyn,glover,hornwood,flint,stout,ryswell,and mormont

800 umbers

400 stark men in the riverlands.(if they make there way back north)

these men are about the only people they can count on. 16799!and this is subject to change with the battle of ice coming up. I know this is a fantasy but no way can they stop an army of hundreds of thousands. yes wights are organized but the numbers will overwhelm the host. there are at least 12 others left. I don't think the common man will have dragon glass or dragon steel. so who else is there? stannis? the vale lords and the riverlords? would the riverlords send the last of there men up north? i guesstimate around 8000 men that the riverlords can call on.I personnel don't think Dany will help. she is a self centered person who would rather fight a meaningless war then save the world what are your thoughts? correct me if i'm wrong please.

Hi there. I can't agree with this part about Daenerys because she is the savior of the story. She has the dragons and she is known to free the slaves, so yea, she cares enough for people she hardly knows. I think Daenerys is set up to fly to Westeros and use her dragons to burn the Others and wights. No matter how many humans there are to fight, they are going to need the magic of the dragons to beat the Others. She and Jon will rule together after that.

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Posted (edited)

IMO, it won't he a giant battle it's going to be like a horror movie. I could list all the things I have in my head but I'm feeling lazy and I'll let your imaginations run wild. 

Edited by The Great and Mighty Poo

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Bran's powers may be strong enough by that point, that even if Dany does not offer support, he could warg a dragon from a great distance and burn a lot of the wight army, reducing their numbers.

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