NBA 2017: The Kings of Comedy

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Trebla said:

 

Things didn't workout in his attempt to re-build after the Jordan years but he did draft some good players like Elton Brand, Ron Artest, and Jamal Crawford. RIP, Jerry.

To be fair, it's extremely difficult to rebuild your franchise after a dynasty. 

[briantw]

24 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

To be fair, it's extremely difficult to rebuild your franchise after a dynasty. 

Yup.  If you have a dynasty, it's usually because you have a generational talent on your team.  Those guys are inherently damn near impossible to replace since there are so few of them.  The Bulls' dynasty was because they were lucky enough to draft one of the top three greatest players to ever play the game, and lucky that two other teams passed him over in the draft (although, to be fair, Houston ended up with an all-time great themselves).  You can't replace a guy like that.

[James Arryn]

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

Yup.  If you have a dynasty, it's usually because you have a generational talent on your team.  Those guys are inherently damn near impossible to replace since there are so few of them.  The Bulls' dynasty was because they were lucky enough to draft one of the top three greatest players to ever play the game, and lucky that two other teams passed him over in the draft (although, to be fair, Houston ended up with an all-time great themselves).  You can't replace a guy like that.

Must...not...begin...what if Hakeem got Pippen and Jordan got Vernon Maxwell...debate...

[briantw]

1 minute ago, James Arryn said:

Must...not...begin...what if Hakeem got Pippen and Jordan got Vernon Maxwell...debate...

The better debate is what if Portland wasn't stupid?  

[DunderMifflin]

Celtics and Lakers apparently are the only two franchises that can do it.

Lakers probably have been better recently with their taking advantage of stupid expansion teams like Orlando (Shaq) and Charlotte (Kobe)

Of course the KG/Ray Allen move was slick as well.

[James Arryn]

3 minutes ago, briantw said:

The better debate is what if Portland wasn't stupid?  

You want worse? Portland offered Drexler plus pick for Sampson. Pick would have been MJ, as Bowie didn't fit with Hakeem.

 

Now, to be fair, before he blew out his knee in the finals the Olajuwon/Sampson combo was pretty much regarded as an imminent dynasty, but still...

Drexler, Jordan and Hakeem on one team for almost exactly concurrent primes...

[briantw]

Just now, James Arryn said:

You want worse? Portland offered Drexler plus pick for Sampson. Pick would have been MJ, as Bowie didn't fit with Hakeem.

Now, to be fair, before he blew out his knee in the finals the Olajuwon/Sampson combo was pretty much regarded as an imminent dynasty, but still...

Yeah, it's hard to argue that Houston did anything too wrong here.  Hakeem was another once-in-a-lifetime talent, and they obviously thought (justifiably) that pairing him with Sampson would make for a contender for years.

[briantw]

7 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

Celtics and Lakers apparently are the only two franchises that can do it.

Lakers probably have been better recently with their taking advantage of stupid expansion teams like Orlando (Shaq) and Charlotte (Kobe)

Of course the KG/Ray Allen move was slick as well.

The Lakers did it by leveraging their location and their reputation, and also through their beloved former owner.  The owner died and left questionable children at the helm, their reputation is mostly negative now, and location just doesn't seem to matter as much to players today as it did ten years ago since the rise of global media means stars can get paid wherever they go.

As for Boston, they didn't do it with any consistency after the eighties.  There were largely irrelevant for like two decades after Bird left, and got one title out of their big three squad.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

3 hours ago, briantw said:

Pretty much everyone in the NBA would squash Curry in a fight.  He's a spoiled rich kid who's physically built like a sixteen year old girl.

Now, that's a little bit of a exaggeration. But, this feud with Russel cracks me up. It's like your little brother trying to take up for you to the school bully. Maybe Seth been listening to some 90's rap and he is reppin' real hard. (90's rap was last decade of real rap. Since then it's been a bunch of jokers trying to teach you how to dance in the club)

[DunderMifflin]

8 minutes ago, briantw said:

The Lakers did it by leveraging their location and their reputation, and also through their beloved former owner.  The owner died and left questionable children at the helm, their reputation is mostly negative now, and location just doesn't seem to matter as much to players today as it did ten years ago since the rise of global media means stars can get paid wherever they go.

As for Boston, they didn't do it with any consistency after the eighties.  There were largely irrelevant for like two decades after Bird left, and got one title out of their big three squad.

I'd agree with the Lakers location automatically equals the top of the mountain logic if the Knicks weren't so trash for so long.

But leveraging your location and reputation into talent hardly seems like a bad business move.

 

Also I think the death of Len Bias had a devastating effect on Boston that extended longer than a year or two.

[Trebla]

39 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

To be fair, it's extremely difficult to rebuild your franchise after a dynasty. 

Definitely. It was also ballsy to do what he did after drafting Brand, Artest, and Crawford (and also had Brad Miller), he traded them all and drafted Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler. He felt the former team could be good but never a championship team and the Baby Twin Towers could be. That failed because Curry turned out to be incredibly lazy and Chandler had injury problems early on. Plus his hand-picked coach, Tim Floyd, was a bad choice, Krause admitted as much a couple of years ago.

All that said, I can now appreciate that Krause was willing to go for it. This current Bulls regime is completely spineless and willing to be average (or below average) as long as they turn a profit.

[briantw]

Just now, DunderMifflin said:

I'd agree with the Lakers location automatically equals the top of the mountain logic if the Knicks weren't so trash for so long.

But leveraging your location and reputation into talent hardly seems like a bad business move.

To be honest, I think your average NBA player was far more interested in living in LA than in New York.  It matters a lot less now than it did ten years ago, but I'd say the same is still true.  LA has much better weather, hotter women who wear a lot less clothing, probably equivalent if not better nightlife...it's just a better place to live if you're young and rich like the average NBA player.  

I don't disagree about leveraging your location and reputation.  I just think times have changed a lot to the point where location largely doesn't matter.  I mean, Cleveland is a hotter free agent destination right now than Los Angeles.  The Lakers have had buckets of money to throw at guys the past few years and can't get anyone good to take it.  Meanwhile, guys are lining up to take less money in shittier cities. 

[DunderMifflin]

4 minutes ago, briantw said:

To be honest, I think your average NBA player was far more interested in living in LA than in New York.  It matters a lot less now than it did ten years ago, but I'd say the same is still true.  LA has much better weather, hotter women who wear a lot less clothing, probably equivalent if not better nightlife...it's just a better place to live if you're young and rich like the average NBA player.  

I don't disagree about leveraging your location and reputation.  I just think times have changed a lot to the point where location largely doesn't matter.  I mean, Cleveland is a hotter free agent destination right now than Los Angeles.  The Lakers have had buckets of money to throw at guys the past few years and can't get anyone good to take it.  Meanwhile, guys are lining up to take less money in shittier cities. 

But New York is/was a more desirable location than most other franchises outside of LA. Many of them have outperformed the Knicks over the years. 

[briantw]

1 minute ago, DunderMifflin said:

But New York is/was a more desirable location than most other franchises outside of LA. Many of them have outperformed the Knicks over the years. 

Well, New York has had the variable of absolutely terrible management.  Even if you're a destination city you need to exhibit some type of success to lure the best players to your team.

[DunderMifflin]

4 minutes ago, briantw said:

Well, New York has had the variable of absolutely terrible management.

Which makes even current Laker or Celtic management look decent.

 

Lakers are only a year removed from a giant courtesy contract for Kobe and Celtics seem to be playing better than their talent. Brad Stevens was a great move for them.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

6 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

See that. And wasn't what I was implying. Westbrook would squash Curry if it came to it. 

 

6 hours ago, briantw said:

Pretty much everyone in the NBA would squash Curry in a fight.  He's a spoiled rich kid who's physically built like a sixteen year old girl.

Good thing this is the NBA and not the UFC, I guess? Curry lights up pretty much everyone in the NBA on the court. Which is what he's paid to do.

[Ramsay B.]

10 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 

Good thing this is the NBA and not the UFC, I guess? 

Ibaka and Lopez disagree. Some punches thrown tonight in Toronto...and then Bulls blow a 16 point 4th quater lead. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 hours ago, briantw said:

Yup.  If you have a dynasty, it's usually because you have a generational talent on your team.  Those guys are inherently damn near impossible to replace since there are so few of them.  The Bulls' dynasty was because they were lucky enough to draft one of the top three greatest players to ever play the game, and lucky that two other teams passed him over in the draft (although, to be fair, Houston ended up with an all-time great themselves).  You can't replace a guy like that.

Yep. I also think there's some truth to guys not wanting to go to teams right after they've had a huge run. 

14 hours ago, DunderMifflin said:

Celtics and Lakers apparently are the only two franchises that can do it.

Lakers probably have been better recently with their taking advantage of stupid expansion teams like Orlando (Shaq) and Charlotte (Kobe)

Of course the KG/Ray Allen move was slick as well.

The Celtics and the Lakers have been able to have multiple runs because both teams have had two of the 5 best players to lace em up (Russel, Bird, Magic and Kareem) and the Lakers have also had two top 10 players (Shaq and Kobe).

[DunderMifflin]

54 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

The Celtics and the Lakers have been able to have multiple runs because both teams have had two of the 5 best players to lace em up (Russel, Bird, Magic and Kareem) and the Lakers have also had two top 10 players (Shaq and Kobe).

Every dynasty has legends though. Championships are in part what puts someone in the top 5/10 greatest players. To me it seems like certain franchises have some sort of ethos that allows them to fully take advantage of any luck that comes their way and translate it into success. Where lesser franchises piss away their luck with mistakes. 

 

[James Arryn]

3 hours ago, DunderMifflin said:

Every dynasty has legends though. Championships are in part what puts someone in the top 5/10 greatest players. To me it seems like certain franchises have some sort of ethos that allows them to fully take advantage of any luck that comes their way and translate it into success. Where lesser franchises piss away their luck with mistakes. 

 

Eh, not sure I agree. 3 of the last 4 Laker legends (Kareem, Shaq and Kobe) went there by specific choice (two trade demands and a FA) rather than through normal avenues available to other franchises. You can piss away a lot of luck if superstars are literally forcing their way to your door.