The Wolves Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Boarsbane said: Robert was very kind to most of his friends, and even his enemies, he was probably overly forgiving in some cases, he showed Balon mercy he certainly didn't deserve, he convinced men who were fighting against him to fight for him instead, even to die for him. This doesnt sound like a harsh man to me. He could be considered a brute but his tactics and the way he rules certainly arent brutal. Rhaegar was more reserved and book smart than Robert, but that doesn't make him a better person, for a person wise beyond his years he sure didn't see the consequences of kidnapping or eloping with Lyanna, or he didn't care. It's nice of you to overlook his abandonment of his wife and infant children for "the love of his life", but to most of us its a dick move. Robert wasn't a great guy but he was a much better man than Rhaegar, who hid in a tower while better men fought and died in the war he helped start. How could Rhaegar possibly see that kidnapping Lyanna would result in the deaths of his children, wife, father, mother, downfall of his 300yr old dynasty and his younger siblings ran from their homes all because he kidnapped a girl? Blame Rhaegar for a lot of things and he would surely deserve that blame, but not being able to see the consequences of taking a girl(no matter her highborn status)he should not be blamed for. And when Robert stood over the dead bodies of two innocent babies and dehumanized them, plus stepping over their bodies for a throne he never wanted never along should have sat he lost the right to be called a "good man" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 3 hours ago, The Wolves said: How could Rhaegar possibly see that kidnapping Lyanna would result in the deaths of his children, wife, father, mother, downfall of his 300yr old dynasty and his younger siblings ran from their homes all because he kidnapped a girl? Blame Rhaegar for a lot of things and he would surely deserve that blame, but not being able to see the consequences of taking a girl(no matter her highborn status)he should not be blamed for. And when Robert stood over the dead bodies of two innocent babies and dehumanized them, plus stepping over their bodies for a throne he never wanted never along should have sat he lost the right to be called a "good man" Well I'd argue that the kidnapping wasn't the cause of the war. It surely pushed things in that direction. However it didn't start until Aerys killed Rickard and Brandon. Then demanded the heads of Robert and Ned from Jon Arryn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 15 hours ago, Quellon said: Lol, a MUCH better man, I bet not many will agree with that. And he did not HIDE, he was there for Lyanna, which shows how good he was. Robert was lenient to Barristan and Balon, because he valued courage. It seems that's all he valued. Call it what you want, Rhaegar was no where to be found for most of the war while Robert was fighting with his men on the frontlines. Robert valued courage but he was lenient to more than just those two, most the houses that fought against him were forgiven, at worse they lost some land but in most cases nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Aside from Rhaegar destroying his life? On 8/2/2017 at 5:20 PM, Quellon said: I just think it's pretty harsh and rather despicable that after you have murdered their brother and after their father has been slain and their dynasty almost completely destroyed, that Robert still thirsted for the blood of Viserys and Dany. I mean, Viserys was a typical Targaryen, he was cruel and had delusions of grandeur, but still...one might accuse Robert of the same things. And Dany was always innocent for sure, innocent and noble. Rhaegar died in battle and Robert sent an assassin to kill Dany only after she actively conspired to attack him. 15 hours ago, Quellon said: Lol, a MUCH better man, You are right. A man who treats his wife as a baby making machine is the definition of a good man. And he did not HIDE, he was there for Lyanna, He really wasn't. He was hiding in the middle of nowhere and was not facing the consequences of his actions that make him a coward. He also had abandoned Elia and his children and this makes him a jack@@s. Also Lyanna most likely died because she didn’t had health care she needed something that had happened because Rhaegar chose to hide in the middle of nowhere rather than marrying her in public and staying with her somewhere where she would had the treatment she would need. Hence he is also to blame for her death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 13 hours ago, The Wolves said: How could Rhaegar possibly see that kidnapping Lyanna would result in the deaths of his children, wife, father, mother, downfall of his 300yr old dynasty and his younger siblings ran from their homes all because he kidnapped a girl? Blame Rhaegar for a lot of things and he would surely deserve that blame, but not being able to see the consequences of taking a girl(no matter her highborn status)he should not be blamed for. And when Robert stood over the dead bodies of two innocent babies and dehumanized them, plus stepping over their bodies for a throne he never wanted never along should have sat he lost the right to be called a "good man" How could he not see that kidnapping or eloping with her would cause conflict? I'm not saying he should of known exactly what would happen but that he should of known it would cause trouble. Rather than stick around and explain himself or deal with the trouble he disappears and let's good old Aerys the Wise deal with it. As far as his dynasty collapsing that's his fault to some degree, he lost the decisive battle that led to the Sack and Tywin having his children killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quellon Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Boarsbane said: Call it what you want, Rhaegar was no where to be found for most of the war while Robert was fighting with his men on the frontlines. Robert valued courage but he was lenient to more than just those two, most the houses that fought against him were forgiven, at worse they lost some land but in most cases nothing. I believe that was more due to Jon Arryn's counsel, not Robert's own will. I sincerely doubt it. Jon knew they needed all the houses they could get on their side. Else, another rebellion might have broken out soon-the anti-Robert Rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quellon Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Aside from Rhaegar destroying his life? Rhaegar died in battle and Robert sent an assassin to kill Dany only after she actively conspired to attack him. You are right. A man who treats his wife as a baby making machine is the definition of a good man. He really wasn't. He was hiding in the middle of nowhere and was not facing the consequences of his actions that make him a coward. He also had abandoned Elia and his children and this makes him a jack@@s. Also Lyanna most likely died because she didn’t had health care she needed something that had happened because Rhaegar chose to hide in the middle of nowhere rather than marrying her in public and staying with her somewhere where she would had the treatment she would need. Hence he is also to blame for her death. Lol, are you a troll or what? Rhaegar sent three of the best men of the KINGSGUARD to guard Lyanna, isn't that a proof how much he cared for her? Had he been just another womanizer, like Robert, he'd never have bothered. You are just another Robert-loving Targaryen-hater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Quellon said: Lol, are you a troll or what? Personal attacks. How mature! 4 minutes ago, Quellon said: Rhaegar sent three of the best men of the KINGSGUARD to guard Lyanna, isn't that a proof how much he cared for her? Because a pregnant woman needs a bodyguard more than a doctor or a midwife. Or let me guess the 3 KG were Medical Doctors? In any case who was going to attack Lyanna? Her brother or the man who loved her more than everyone else in the world? 4 minutes ago, Quellon said: Had he been just another womanizer, like Robert, he'd never have bothered. Can you prove that Robert wouldn't had taken care of his wife? 4 minutes ago, Quellon said: You are just another Robert-loving Targaryen-hater. I never hide it much like how you are a love Targaryen Robert hater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quellon Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 14 hours ago, The Wolves said: How could Rhaegar possibly see that kidnapping Lyanna would result in the deaths of his children, wife, father, mother, downfall of his 300yr old dynasty and his younger siblings ran from their homes all because he kidnapped a girl? Blame Rhaegar for a lot of things and he would surely deserve that blame, but not being able to see the consequences of taking a girl(no matter her highborn status)he should not be blamed for. And when Robert stood over the dead bodies of two innocent babies and dehumanized them, plus stepping over their bodies for a throne he never wanted never along should have sat he lost the right to be called a "good man" A-HA! Thank you, that slipped my mind. Let us see how you get away from this, wretched Robertlovers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Quellon said: A-HA! Thank you, that slipped my mind. Let us see how you get away from this, wretched Robertlovers! For your information insults and personal attacks are not allowed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quellon Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Personal attacks. How mature! Because a pregnant woman needs a bodyguard more than a doctor or a midwife. Or let me guess the 3 KG were Medical Doctors? Can you prove that Robert wouldn't had taken care of his wife? I never hide it much like how you are a love Targaryen Robert hater. Just as mature as saying Rhaegar was a coward who hid and abandoned a pregnant woman. At least he didn't gloat over the bodies of children! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quellon Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: For your information insults and personal attacks are not allowed here. Oh really? When you discuss things politely, then we can talk like two adults. Not before. Anyway, to clear up things, since it obviously is necessary for you: Rhaegar had MAJOR ISSUES to deal with, his insane father and the Tywin threat, plus he also had to fight Robert and his army, you expect him to just sit there by Lyanna holding her hand? Get real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Quellon said: Just as mature as saying Rhaegar was a coward who hid and abandoned a pregnant woman. At You use personal attacks I use the books. There is no similarity. 3 minutes ago, Quellon said: At least he didn't gloat over the bodies of children! And how you know that he wouldn't had done it if he would had the chance? If Rhaegar didn't cared about his children why should Robert cared about them? 1 minute ago, Quellon said: Oh really? When you discuss things politely, then we can talk like two adults. Not before. Again; You use personal attacks I use the books when insults and personal attacks are not allowed here. There is no similarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quellon Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: You use personal attacks I use the books. There is no similarity. And how you know that he wouldn't had done it if he would had the chance? If Rhaegar didn't cared about his children why should Robert cared about them? Again; You use personal attacks I use the books when insults and personal attacks are not allowed here. There is no similarity. Now that's just complete nonsense. Gimme ONE proof which says Rhaegar didn't care and don't use your OWN interpretations, just a valid proof is enough. As I said already, Rhaegar had major issues to deal with and didn't have time to play good daddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, Quellon said: Now that's just complete nonsense. Gimme ONE proof which says Rhaegar didn't care and don't use your OWN interpretations, just a valid proof is enough. You remember how he disappeared with a teen and abandoned his wife and children at the hands of his mad father? Not only that but he also spent a full year having coitus with Lyanna in the middle of nowhere when a war that he helped to be created was ranged in Westeros. If you cannot see how this is a cowardice thing and how this means that he had abandoned his wife and children that is your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quellon Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: You do remember how he disappeared with a teen and abandoned his wife and children at the hands of his mad father. Not only that but he also spent a full year having coitus with Lyanna in the middle of nowhere when a war that he helped to be created was ranged in Westeros. If you cannot see how this is a cowardice thing and how this means that he had abandoned his wife and children that is your choice. He did it for love, not out of cowardice. Ffs, if you can't see the difference between this, then you really are just a HATER. I don't think we have anything sensible to say to eachother anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShirt47 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 A Targ sent his parents off on an errand to find a new Targ wife from which they never returned. A Targ "kidnapped" the love of his life. A Targ ordered his head on a plate. Any remaining Targs could have led a revolt against him. Ned knew the truth about Lyanna which meant his anger was less and he didn't have to fear an uprising against his rule in the North so was much less paranoid. Ned was calmer and blamed The Mad King for his misdeeds, not the entire family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, Quellon said: He did it for love, not out of cowardice. Ffs, if you can't see the difference between this, then you really are just a HATER. I don't think we have anything sensible to say to eachother anymore. The one doesn't exclude the other. The fact that he loved her, if he did and it wasn't the Targaryen madness, doesn't mean that it wasn't cowardice hiding and not facing the consequences of your actions is cowardice. The only thing I care about it not using personal attacks and insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davjos Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 20 hours ago, Quellon said: Damn right he did! Rhaegar was ten times a better man than Robert, sure he did wrong. That is not being objective but who cares. It's the truth. Robert killed him because he had taken "his" woman away from him. He was so delusional, Robert. That was the main motivation for starting the whole rebellion, for him. And that is not very honorable, is it? Personality doesn't matter in war. Good or bad doesn't matter in war. You're on this side trying to kill them/survive, they're on that side trying to kill you. They're not even individuals anymore. Btw Jon Arryn started the Rebellion, not Bobby B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Boarsbane said: Call it what you want, Rhaegar was no where to be found for most of the war while Robert was fighting with his men on the frontlines. Robert valued courage but he was lenient to more than just those two, most the houses that fought against him were forgiven, at worse they lost some land but in most cases nothing. He was so love stricken and sad that his betrothed had been taken and the thought of her getting raped thousands times by this monster called rhaegar hurt him so much that he decided to spend his time with whore even fighting the war.. Rhaegar didn't run from Robert either. He faced him in the battle not hid from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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