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Possible 3rd Head of the Dragon


Stiles_of_the_Vale

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I have written quite a bit on this board about this topic. This topic happens to be one of the "mysteries" of the series that interests me quite a bit. Personally, I think that Rhaegar's scene is a pivotal piece of information because it seems to lay out the endgame to some extent -- specifically that the "dragon must have three heads" seems to be a signal to the readers that the "war for the dawn" 2.0 can be won only if the three heads come together as a joint force to win the big battle.

Most people agree that Dany and Jon are two of the heads (not universally accepted but certainly a plurality if not majority view). So the big question become the identity of the third head.

So what can the readers reasonably deduce about the three heads? In my view, from a storytelling point of view, the three heads must be main characters. The critical players in the endgame cannot be characters that are introduced half way through the story or are only minor side characters in the story. So in  my view, fAegon, Gendry and BBP are eliminated from consideration. I get the desire to have fAegon, presumably a Blackfyre, be the third head, but the readers don't meet YG until half way through the series. And even then, he is never really given much direct focus. To turn him into one of the three critical figures in the war seems like an incredibly strange literary choice -- and I don't see GRRM going in this direction. The readers simply have not grown close enough to this character to make him so central to the endgame, and the series is too far toward the end to create such a connection at this point.

The other information that seems to be directly stated by Rhaegar is that these three heads are "dragons" which seems to suggest being Targaryens. That information would eliminate Bran (and any other Starks) from consideration. While there is some symmetry in the three heads being Ice--Bran, Fire--Dany and Ice/Fire--Jon, but Bran just does not seem to fit as a head of the dragon -- as he is a "wolf" and not reasonably characterized in any sense as a dragon. While the notion that Bran might be able to skinchange a dragon -- that action does not seem enough to be part of a "three-headed" dragon (metaphorically speaking, of course).

But what about the quote from GRRM that the third head is not "necessarily a Targ"? No matter what GRRM might say to try to keep the mysteries as mysteries -- the overwhelming pieces of evidence from the books that GRRM has written make sense only if the three heads are all Targs of some kind (whether it be Blackfyre, Targ bastard (i.e., dragon seed) or some other character reasonably described as a "dragon" within the context of how the term has been used in the series). The notion that GRRM really will have someone that could not be described as a "dragon" be one of the three heads of the dragon would be inconsistent with the manner in which GRRM has constructed use of such metaphors throughout the series (and GRRM has stated that he does not "lie" to his readers by setting up all the clues to point one way just to have the resolution be something completely different). So Bran and any other Stark or character who cannot be viewed as a "dragon" is out as a contender for the third head. And if a Blackfyre or dragonseed is the third head, that character is not a Targaryen (thus the quote from GRRM being technically accurate) while still being a dragon.

So by process of elimination the readers must turn to Tyrion. Tyrion certainly is one of the main characters in the series. He is one of the big 5 (or big 6 if Sansa is included). The readers know that Bran and Arya (and Sansa) are Starks -- i.e., wolves. As noted above, Jon and Dany are assumed to be three of the heads. So Tyrion is the most viable candidate left. But can Tyrion be a "dragon"? I have probably written as much as anyone on these boards about this topic so I will not bore anyone with all of the reasons that I have become convinced of the likelihood that Tyrion really is the biological son of Aerys. Go ahead and read my OP in the AJT thread (just click to see link) for more details. No other resolution meets all of the apparent criteria other than Tyrion as Targ bastard being the third head.

Note that none of this analysis revolves around the three heads all being dragon riders. While riding a dragon might seem to be the natural assumption about the three heads (based around the original Targ trio conquering Westeros on three dragons) --  the critical criteria is identity as a "dragon" and not riding an actual dragon.  If, for example, one or more of the actual dragons die before the endgame, perhaps a different role is central to why the dragon must have three heads. Or maybe one of the three "heads" dies near the end of the big battle but before victory has been assured and the third head mounts the now riderless dragon and ends up being critical to winning the battle. I really don't know and try to stay away from predicting the plot points to that level of specificity (my prior attempts have been largely unsuccessful). The point remains that a combination of basic story structure and the numerous clues and hints placed in the text (including WOIAF) by GRRM convinces me that Tyrion is the third head and a Targ bastard.

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1 hour ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

I have written quite a bit on this board about this topic. This topic happens to be one of the "mysteries" of the series that interests me quite a bit. Personally, I think that Rhaegar's scene is a pivotal piece of information because it seems to lay out the endgame to some extent -- specifically that the "dragon must have three heads" seems to be a signal to the readers that the "war for the dawn" 2.0 can be won only if the three heads come together as a joint force to win the big battle.

Most people agree that Dany and Jon are two of the heads (not universally accepted but certainly a plurality if not majority view). So the big question become the identity of the third head.

So what can the readers reasonably deduce about the three heads? In my view, from a storytelling point of view, the three heads must be main characters. The critical players in the endgame cannot be characters that are introduced half way through the story or are only minor side characters in the story. So in  my view, fAegon, Gendry and BBP are eliminated from consideration. I get the desire to have fAegon, presumably a Blackfyre, be the third head, but the readers don't meet YG until half way through the series. And even then, he is never really given much direct focus. To turn him into one of the three critical figures in the war seems like an incredibly strange literary choice -- and I don't see GRRM going in this direction. The readers simply have not grown close enough to this character to make him so central to the endgame, and the series is too far toward the end to create such a connection at this point.

The other information that seems to be directly stated by Rhaegar is that these three heads are "dragons" which seems to suggest being Targaryens. That information would eliminate Bran (and any other Starks) from consideration. While there is some symmetry in the three heads being Ice--Bran, Fire--Dany and Ice/Fire--Jon, but Bran just does not seem to fit as a head of the dragon -- as he is a "wolf" and not reasonably characterized in any sense as a dragon. While the notion that Bran might be able to skinchange a dragon -- that action does not seem enough to be part of a "three-headed" dragon (metaphorically speaking, of course).

But what about the quote from GRRM that the third head is not "necessarily a Targ"? No matter what GRRM might say to try to keep the mysteries as mysteries -- the overwhelming pieces of evidence from the books that GRRM has written make sense only if the three heads are all Targs of some kind (whether it be Blackfyre, Targ bastard (i.e., dragon seed) or some other character reasonably described as a "dragon" within the context of how the term has been used in the series). The notion that GRRM really will have someone that could not be described as a "dragon" be one of the three heads of the dragon would be inconsistent with the manner in which GRRM has constructed use of such metaphors throughout the series (and GRRM has stated that he does not "lie" to his readers by setting up all the clues to point one way just to have the resolution be something completely different). So Bran and any other Stark or character who cannot be viewed as a "dragon" is out as a contender for the third head. And if a Blackfyre or dragonseed is the third head, that character is not a Targaryen (thus the quote from GRRM being technically accurate) while still being a dragon.

So by process of elimination the readers must turn to Tyrion. Tyrion certainly is one of the main characters in the series. He is one of the big 5 (or big 6 if Sansa is included). The readers know that Bran and Arya (and Sansa) are Starks -- i.e., wolves. As noted above, Jon and Dany are assumed to be three of the heads. So Tyrion is the most viable candidate left. But can Tyrion be a "dragon"? I have probably written as much as anyone on these boards about this topic so I will not bore anyone with all of the reasons that I have become convinced of the likelihood that Tyrion really is the biological son of Aerys. Go ahead and read my OP in the AJT thread (just click to see link) for more details. No other resolution meets all of the apparent criteria other than Tyrion as Targ bastard being the third head.

Note that none of this analysis revolves around the three heads all being dragon riders. While riding a dragon might seem to be the natural assumption about the three heads (based around the original Targ trio conquering Westeros on three dragons) --  the critical criteria is identity as a "dragon" and not riding an actual dragon.  If, for example, one or more of the actual dragons die before the endgame, perhaps a different role is central to why the dragon must have three heads. Or maybe one of the three "heads" dies near the end of the big battle but before victory has been assured and the third head mounts the now riderless dragon and ends up being critical to winning the battle. I really don't know and try to stay away from predicting the plot points to that level of specificity (my prior attempts have been largely unsuccessful). The point remains that a combination of basic story structure and the numerous clues and hints placed in the text (including WOIAF) by GRRM convinces me that Tyrion is the third head and a Targ bastard.

While I'm on board with Tyrion being a targ and a dragon rider, I think you eliminate Bran to easily.  While he may be Stark, you cannot say there is no set up for him to do it.  BR keeps telling him he will fly, he is being trained by a Targ, he had the first chapter and is definitely 1 of the main characters, and it could work with Tyrion, ie Bran skinchanges it while Tyrion rides.

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4 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

While I'm on board with Tyrion being a targ and a dragon rider, I think you eliminate Bran to easily.  While he may be Stark, you cannot say there is no set up for him to do it.  BR keeps telling him he will fly, he is being trained by a Targ, he had the first chapter and is definitely 1 of the main characters, and it could work with Tyrion, ie Bran skinchanges it while Tyrion rides.

"The dragon must have three heads. Oh, but I forgot to mention that one of the three heads looks strangely like a wolf." Yeah, I don't think so. IIRC, Bran has already skinchanged birds, so the statement about him flying has happened. Bran (as well as Arya and likely Sansa) will have important roles in the endgame. Bran is the being set up to become the most powerful human being on the planet, so I certainly expect him to have an important role in the endgame. But the DRAGON has three heads, and Bran is just not a dragon or a head of a dragon.

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27 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

While I'm on board with Tyrion being a targ and a dragon rider, I think you eliminate Bran to easily.  While he may be Stark, you cannot say there is no set up for him to do it.  BR keeps telling him he will fly, he is being trained by a Targ, he had the first chapter and is definitely 1 of the main characters, and it could work with Tyrion, ie Bran skinchanges it while Tyrion rides.

While I understand why you might think Bran is a good choice, I feel like if we were going to get a greenseer as a dragon rider, it would be Bloodraven. He's still technically alive, and does have dragon's blood. Though, with as much hate as received before being sent to the Wall, I don't see people rushing to embrace him. I feel like telling him Bran will fly is done by Bran becoming the 3-eyed crow, and not physically riding or warging into a dragon. Bran is a powerful warg, but I have a hard time seeing him manage to get passed the dragon's major personalities. 

 

While I am still iffy on Tyrion being a 3rd head, I can see how the dragons could also help predict this. Dany rides Drogon (named after Drogo), Jon could easily ride Rhaegal (named for his very likely father), and Tyrion Viserion (named for his younger half-brother, if A+J=T is true).

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3 hours ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

"The dragon must have three heads. Oh, but I forgot to mention that one of the three heads looks strangely like a wolf." Yeah, I don't think so. IIRC, Bran has already skinchanged birds, so the statement about him flying has happened. Bran (as well as Arya and likely Sansa) will have important roles in the endgame. Bran is the being set up to become the most powerful human being on the planet, so I certainly expect him to have an important role in the endgame. But the DRAGON has three heads, and Bran is just not a dragon or a head of a dragon.

A Blackfyre would make a better head than a Hill. Black or red a dragon is still a dragon. And one of the three heads washed up red with rust. 

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2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

A Blackfyre would make a better head than a Hill. Black or red a dragon is still a dragon. And one of the three heads washed up red with rust. 

I just have too many issues with YG as the third head of the dragon -- mainly that YG is just not a central character in the story. The readers know little about him and have not been led to have much connection to him. If "the dragon must have three heads" really means what I believe it means -- i.e., that three "dragons" must work together if the world is to be saved -- then a character as relatively minor as YG, who is only brought into the story half way through and who never gets a POV -- simply does not work as one of the three heads. Just imagine how that would develop in the story -- all of a sudden, Jon and Dany team up with YG and he becomes a central part of resolving the war. That approach would be "cold" and "jarring" for most readers. People on these boards who analyze the details and get caught up in the clues sometimes seem to lose track of the storytelling that GRRM is doing for the general reader and not specifically for the "super fan" like the people here. The typical reader would just be confused if YG turned into one of the most important characters in the series -- GRRM simply has not set up YG to be such a character with any plausibility.

And while you make a valid point about Blackfyre seeming to be more of a dragon than a Hill -- keep in mind that Blackfyre simply is a bastard branch that got a name. Tyrion Hill would still be just as much a dragon as he would have just as much dragonblood -- and keep in mind that the term for such a person in this series is dragonseed. Also, the Blackfyre backstory is not really that explored in the series. There are some mentions and clues (like the rusted dragon head, which I simply take as evidence that YG really is fAegon and not Aegon), most readers don't even know anything about the Blackfyre story. I have asked people who have read all the main series books but none of the side books and do not go on the ASOIAF message boards, and they have no idea what Blackfyre means at all. So while I think there will be a Blackfyre reveal regarding YG, I tend to think that if YG's identity as a Blackfyre was going to be critical to him qualifying as a head of the dragon, more back story for the Blackfyre line would have been included in the main series.

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I really, really don´t like suggesting this, but there is a strong possibility that a third head won´t be needed because one dragon is going to die, so it won´t matter who it´s rider could have been.

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1 minute ago, Protagoras said:

I really, really don´t like suggesting this, but there is a strong possibility that a third head won´t be needed because one dragon is going to die, so it won´t matter who it´s rider could have been.

As I noted above--the prophecy is not necessarily about dragon riders -- but about three "dragons" (i.e., people of Targ blood) who are central to saving the world. The prophecy, however, states that the dragon must have three heads -- so three heads it must be. Being a dragon rider might be central to being a head of the dragon -- but might not be -- something else might be crucial to winning the battle but still has some connection to the three leaders being three people of Targ heritage.

I also noted above that even if a dragon dies, one of the three heads might die near the end with the "third head" bonding with the now riderless dragon. So it could be three dragon riders on two dragons (just not two on the same dragon at the same time). So imagine the following possibility -- NOT a prediction but just an example of how such a scenario might work. Assume that Dany is riding Drogon and Jon is riding Rhaegal and Tyrion does not yet know he is of Targ blood. Imagine that the big battle is raging on and the "good guys" are having some success -- but then right before victory is assured, tragedy strikes and Dany is killed. Drogon becomes despondent and is no longer helping in the fight. Tyrion sees Jon being forced back without Dany and Drogon to help in the fight -- and Tyrion becomes desperate and unthinkingly leaps onto Drogon -- and amazingly Tyrion bonds with Drogon and races to save Jon from defeat, and together, Jon and Tyrion finish off the Others. Again, I am NOT making a prediction that the battle will go this way -- but this scenario is an example of how even with only two dragons, three total dragon riders might become essential to the victory.

Either way, the prophecy that the dragon must have three heads does not require three dragon riders -- it only requires three people "of the dragon" -- who work together as a team -- to be central to the war victory in some manner.

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7 hours ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

So by process of elimination the readers must turn to Tyrion. Tyrion certainly is one of the main characters in the series. He is one of the big 5 (or big 6 if Sansa is included). The readers know that Bran and Arya (and Sansa) are Starks -- i.e., wolves. As noted above, Jon and Dany are assumed to be three of the heads. So Tyrion is the most viable candidate left. But can Tyrion be a "dragon"? I have probably written as much as anyone on these boards about this topic so I will not bore anyone with all of the reasons that I have become convinced of the likelihood that Tyrion really is the biological son of Aerys. Go ahead and read my OP in the AJT thread (just click to see link) for more details. No other resolution meets all of the apparent criteria other than Tyrion as Targ bastard being the third head.

By putting the Blackwater on fire (ACOK) and later in ADWD by breaking his own slavery chains (and his first chains are his father's chain, we can also say), he is litteraly a dragon : he's got all the characteristics (though he's not a hunter. But he has a giant shadow !) 

So I'm not sure he needs targaryen blood to be one of the 3 heads of the dragon ^^

29 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

Either way, the prophecy that the dragon must have three heads does not require three dragon riders -- it only requires three people "of the dragon" -- who work together as a team -- to be central to the war victory in some manner.

I agree, and it seems to me that's what GRRM suggested when he said that the all the heads of the dragon wasn't necesseraly "Targ", because Targ blood is required to ride a dragon (without using a valyrian magic horn 'dragon binder", of course) 

 

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6 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

While I'm on board with Tyrion being a targ and a dragon rider, I think you eliminate Bran to easily.  While he may be Stark, you cannot say there is no set up for him to do it.  BR keeps telling him he will fly, he is being trained by a Targ, he had the first chapter and is definitely 1 of the main characters, and it could work with Tyrion, ie Bran skinchanges it while Tyrion rides.

I like this. When you consider that Tyrion helped Bran by designing a saddle to ride a horse, it's fitting that Bran would/could warg a Dragon and allow Tyrion to hop aboard. Nobody would know Bran was warging the creature. Except the reader and maybe Tyrion too. As far as Westeros would be concerned, Tyrion would be a bonefied Dragon rider. 

Plus, the imagery of a crazy, mismatched eyed dwarf riding a roaring dragon down on Cersei's KL - the city that screwed him - is too awesome to not consider. 

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1 minute ago, GloubieBoulga said:

By putting the Blackwater on fire (ACOK) and later in ADWD by breaking his own slavery chains (and his first chains are his father's chain, we can also say), he is litteraly a dragon : he's got all the characteristics (though he's not a hunter. But he has a giant shadow !) 

So I'm not sure he needs targaryen blood to be one of the 3 heads of the dragon ^^

I agree, and it seems to me that's what GRRM suggested when he said that the all the heads of the dragon wasn't necesseraly "Targ", because Targ blood is required to ride a dragon (without using a valyrian magic horn 'dragon binder", of course) 

 

Regarding the bolded -- if he does not have Targ blood, then no, he does not have all of the characteristics. GRRM has used the term dragon in the series only to refer to Targs or people who have Targ blood (other than of course references to actual dragons). I don't see how breaking slavery chains has anything to do with being a dragon -- I am not even sure what the connection might be. As to the use of wild fire, there is quite a bit of foreshadowing that Cersei is going to use the wild fire that is still under KL to blow up part or all of KL. If she does so, will that make Cersei a dragon? I don't think so. The use of wild fire is just not something that would "make" Tyrion become a dragon.

A writer as good as GRRM is not going to use a term over and over again to mean one thing -- just to say that it really means something else later on as a plot device to wrap up a plot point. This series has NEVER suggested that someone could be considered to be a dragon based on actions alone -- Targ blood has always been a required part of the use of that term. Sure, some Targs have been accused of not really being "true dragons" based on behavior, so maybe Targ blood is not sufficient to be a dragon -- but it has always been a necessary component. GRRM is too careful a writer to pull such a jarring switch in the way the term is being used in the series.

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2 hours ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

I just have too many issues with YG as the third head of the dragon -- mainly that YG is just not a central character in the story. The readers know little about him and have not been led to have much connection to him. If "the dragon must have three heads" really means what I believe it means -- i.e., that three "dragons" must work together if the world is to be saved -- then a character as relatively minor as YG, who is only brought into the story half way through and who never gets a POV -- simply does not work as one of the three heads. Just imagine how that would develop in the story -- all of a sudden, Jon and Dany team up with YG and he becomes a central part of resolving the war. That approach would be "cold" and "jarring" for most readers. People on these boards who analyze the details and get caught up in the clues sometimes seem to lose track of the storytelling that GRRM is doing for the general reader and not specifically for the "super fan" like the people here. The typical reader would just be confused if YG turned into one of the most important characters in the series -- GRRM simply has not set up YG to be such a character with any plausibility.

And while you make a valid point about Blackfyre seeming to be more of a dragon than a Hill -- keep in mind that Blackfyre simply is a bastard branch that got a name. Tyrion Hill would still be just as much a dragon as he would have just as much dragonblood -- and keep in mind that the term for such a person in this series is dragonseed. Also, the Blackfyre backstory is not really that explored in the series. There are some mentions and clues (like the rusted dragon head, which I simply take as evidence that YG really is fAegon and not Aegon), most readers don't even know anything about the Blackfyre story. I have asked people who have read all the main series books but none of the side books and do not go on the ASOIAF message boards, and they have no idea what Blackfyre means at all. So while I think there will be a Blackfyre reveal regarding YG, I tend to think that if YG's identity as a Blackfyre was going to be critical to him qualifying as a head of the dragon, more back story for the Blackfyre line would have been included in the main series.

The second head is of less importance than the first and the third heads...

Quote

Three-headed Trios has the tower with the three turrets. The first head devours the dying, and the reborn emerge from the third. I don't know what the middle head's supposed to do.

 

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3 hours ago, Dolorous22 said:

I like this. When you consider that Tyrion helped Bran by designing a saddle to ride a horse, it's fitting that Bran would/could warg a Dragon and allow Tyrion to hop aboard. Nobody would know Bran was warging the creature. Except the reader and maybe Tyrion too. As far as Westeros would be concerned, Tyrion would be a bonefied Dragon rider. 

Plus, the imagery of a crazy, mismatched eyed dwarf riding a roaring dragon down on Cersei's KL - the city that screwed him - is too awesome to not consider. 

I love both that image, and 1 of him landing in front of LF and asking Robert Aryn what it was he said to him the last time they saw each other  "make the bad man fly".

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On 2/9/2017 at 3:29 PM, Protagoras said:

I really, really don´t like suggesting this, but there is a strong possibility that a third head won´t be needed because one dragon is going to die, so it won´t matter who it´s rider could have been.

The three heads may or may not be dragonriders. And the three heads could all end up dead by the end anyway.

 

On 2/9/2017 at 1:57 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

A Blackfyre would make a better head than a Hill. Black or red a dragon is still a dragon. And one of the three heads washed up red with rust. 

Yep, or a Brightflame.

Or somebody who has little or no dragonblood at all but is necessary to help save the world.

We've just got too many options at this point.

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