dbunting Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 On 3/3/2017 at 6:04 PM, The BlackBear said: No they don't look similar at all, Benny is a big fat dude, Lenny is Aubrey Plaza. Interestingly Lenny was originally written to be a man I believe. I meant their look is the same not their size and sex. Both druggies, both short black hair, dress slobbish or sort of gothic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerPaladin Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Start a show with a Who song, and you'll have my attention. Follow it up with Pink Floyd references, a Talking Head cover, some 80s New Wave tossed in, and add in Kubrick/Lynch/Fight Club aesthetics, and you have a show tailored exactly to me. I'm not entirely sure why the rest of you all like it. So I binge re-watched with my college aged daughter this weekend, after watching weekly with my high school aged sons. Daughter noticed a lot of visuals and background that we missed first time through. David's pre-Clockworks fashion is early 80s, maybe late 70s. If he was in Clockworks for 5 years, the show is set in the mid 80s. Using Road to Nowhere (Talking Heads) and Hyperactive (Thomas Dolby) in the episodes puts it at 1985. Ptonomy's tie is era-appropriate, I had many of those ties in high school. Oliver's 70s leisure suit and his being trapped in the ice-cube for 10 years also works. Oliver is in an ice-cube because his body is in a freezer. That's the one thing he can't control, because there is still a connection between his body on the physical plane and his mind on the astral plane. David's t-shirts might reflect something. He's got a circle with a square missing in the episode where they are trying to find his missing memories. He's got a segmented orange arrow in the episode where he teleports himself and the MRI machine. And he's got a blue tornado in the episode where he is trapped on the astral plane (I don't get the connection there). There was one with a triangle inside a circle. Also, Lenny/Benny is always wearing a shirt with a red star. He is not wearing logo t-shirts in his flashbacks, just in Summerland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerPaladin Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Much of the rest of this is speculation, but I have read some of the comics, so I'll spoiler tag it all... Spoiler In my opinion... David is not absorbing people like Benny and Lenny into his dissociative identity disorder. Benny was David's bad influence after high school. The devil with the yellow eyes (the parasite) was "hiding" behind Benny in David's subconscious to get David to do things that would make him weaker and subject to manipulation. Since Benny was doing the same work in the real world, it was an easy fit for the parasite. When Lenny came along in Clockworks, she became a better "mask" for the parasite, because David seemed to be getting a handle on morality and ethics, and Benny's brand of self destruction wasn't going to work any more. I'm guessing the dog, King, was the earliest mask for the parasite. With the reveal of the dog's name, it would be a big twist for the yellow eyed devil not to be the Shadow King. Lives exclusively on the astral plane, parasitic, etc. The only reasonable twist I can think of is that David is the Shadow King in this particular story, one of his identities that got loose. There's a theory rattling around in my head that Melanie Bird is Emma Frost, and that Summerland is the bad guys, not the good guys. Syd has "fallen in love" with David way too fast. The major flaw in the theory is that you can't cast Mr. Noodle as a member of the Hellfire Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 4 minutes ago, SerPaladin said: Much of the rest of this is speculation, but I have read some of the comics, so I'll spoiler tag it all... Reveal hidden contents In my opinion... David is not absorbing people like Benny and Lenny into his dissociative identity disorder. Benny was David's bad influence after high school. The devil with the yellow eyes (the parasite) was "hiding" behind Benny in David's subconscious to get David to do things that would make him weaker and subject to manipulation. Since Benny was doing the same work in the real world, it was an easy fit for the parasite. When Lenny came along in Clockworks, she became a better "mask" for the parasite, because David seemed to be getting a handle on morality and ethics, and Benny's brand of self destruction wasn't going to work any more. I'm guessing the dog, King, was the earliest mask for the parasite. With the reveal of the dog's name, it would be a big twist for the yellow eyed devil not to be the Shadow King. Lives exclusively on the astral plane, parasitic, etc. The only reasonable twist I can think of is that David is the Shadow King in this particular story, one of his identities that got loose. There's a theory rattling around in my head that Melanie Bird is Emma Frost, and that Summerland is the bad guys, not the good guys. Syd has "fallen in love" with David way too fast. The major flaw in the theory is that you can't cast Mr. Noodle as a member of the Hellfire Club. Spoiler So maybe James McAvoy can show up and rescue David in the last episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Just when you think the show is starting to make sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 OK, so David was an angry adopted kid and King/Lenny is a parasitic mutant? This show keeps getting better and better. Aubrey Plaza was fantastic. The scenes in D3 were both hilarious and terrifying. Anyone else think the King looks like Danny DeVito's Penguin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Great episode - this is still the best horror show I've seen in a long while. From the wreckage of "David's" attack on D3 to all the weird shit going on in his childhood home. Dan Stevens was excellent this episode as it was instantly clear that Benny/King was running the show when he appeared. They didn't need to tell us - his body language and confidence made it obvious. The only odd bit for me was how David was dancing around - I'm guessing that could have been Aubrey Plaza but it also reminded me of the guy in the ice cube dancing to his jazz last week. Is it possible that King and him are the same thing? I hope not but there's more to summerland's founder than we're being told. The hints that he became addicted to the astral plane probably mean something. On 06/03/2017 at 9:07 PM, Rhom said: Hide contents So maybe James McAvoy can show up and rescue David in the last episode. wrong actor Do we know what Melanie Bird's powers are yet? I'm assuming she must have some. Part of me keeps expecting her to turn blue and scaly at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, red snow said: Great episode - this is still the best horror show I've seen in a long while. From the wreckage of "David's" attack on D3 to all the weird shit going on in his childhood home. Dan Stevens was excellent this episode as it was instantly clear that Benny/King was running the show when he appeared. They didn't need to tell us - his body language and confidence made it obvious. The only odd bit for me was how David was dancing around - I'm guessing that could have been Aubrey Plaza but it also reminded me of the guy in the ice cube dancing to his jazz last week. Is it possible that King and him are the same thing? I hope not but there's more to summerland's founder than we're being told. The hints that he became addicted to the astral plane probably mean something. wrong actor Do we know what Melanie Bird's powers are yet? I'm assuming she must have some. Part of me keeps expecting her to turn blue and scaly at some point. Nah, remember the parasite was lurking outside the ice cube and Oliver told him that he was safe in there. Agree on everything else. A great episode. The funny thing is, before last night I kept meaning to write a comment asking about why Syd was ever in the hospital in the first place. She was very clearly disturbed in her own way in the first episode, but ever since then she has been the most sane of everyone at Summerland. Last night knocked her down a peg from that status though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Also... had we any clues that this thing was taking place in Europe prior to last night? When driving over to D3, it was a right hand drive car and then the sirens coming in response after David's attack also sounded more what I associate with European police forces. But of course everyone still speaks with an American accent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Great episode. Still flirting uncomfortably close to horror for my wife's enjoyment, but really, really good. The early predictions of Shadow King have looked right on the money all along. I've never read those comics but that antagonist works really well for this setting of mostly psychic mutants. The right-hand-drive car jumped out at me too. Summerland has a Scandinavian modernist feel, plus the lighthouse in the prior episode next to a pine forest felt more north European than American, but the accents and cultural behavior of the character points to American. I think the van driven by D3 in the prior episode was a left-hand-drive; Syd in the Watcher's body was sitting in the front left seat after the crash into a tree, and I think she was slumped over the steering wheel. So if David was adopted, does that suggest that the angriest boy in the world may actually have killed his birth mother through uncontrolled powers? Usually Marvel mutants develop their powers in puberty but trailers for this program showed a levitating baby. Dan Stevens did a great job of portraying David under the control/influence of Lenny/King. The dancing through D3 looked all Lenny to me, and just a hint of Alex in A Clockwork Orange. David dealing directly with Lenny to gain control of his powers to save his sister is a new turn for the character. Has he done that before only for King to wipe the memory, or has he never had that controlled access to his powers in the past? The era is still hard to pin down. Tech is noticeably absent or dated, the cars are old, the clothes in Clockworks looked 80's, the memory mutant dresses like a current day hipster but carries a Thompson machine gun from the 1930s, D3 wears relatively current tactical gear and weapons, Oliver has been stuck on the astral plane for 21 years and is dressed in 1970s style, D3 has cameras throughout their location and con. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Sounds like the production design is working as intended. http://variety.com/2017/artisans/production/fx-legion-production-design-1201998401/ I find myself sometimes trying to narrow down time and location when viewing this series as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Rhom said: Nah, remember the parasite was lurking outside the ice cube and Oliver told him that he was safe in there. Agree on everything else. A great episode. The funny thing is, before last night I kept meaning to write a comment asking about why Syd was ever in the hospital in the first place. She was very clearly disturbed in her own way in the first episode, but ever since then she has been the most sane of everyone at Summerland. Last night knocked her down a peg from that status though. Good point - it was definitely a Lenny thing then. There's something odd with Syd in terms of how in love her and David are. Given they met in the institute and (I assume) little time passed in there i still feel like it seems to be more than it should. But given the way the show is the fact this seems a bit off might mean something in itself. I like how the show is already so wacky that they can end the episode with the "they were in a mental asylum all along" and you know there's more going on. The pacing of the series has also been really good so far in that it's feeling like an 8 hour movie. I didn't notice the right-handed car. 43 minutes ago, Astromech said: Sounds like the production design is working as intended. http://variety.com/2017/artisans/production/fx-legion-production-design-1201998401/ I find myself sometimes trying to narrow down time and location when viewing this series as well. From Pushing Daisies too - that makes a lot of sense and might explain why I keep getting a Bryan Fuller vibe off this show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 24 minutes ago, red snow said: There's something odd with Syd in terms of how in love her and David are. Given they met in the institute and (I assume) little time passed in there i still feel like it seems to be more than it should. But given the way the show is the fact this seems a bit off might mean something in itself. I feel Syd is in love with David more than David is in love with Syd, on the two occasions when she's said she loves him there is a hesitation before he responds. Do we know what Melanie Bird's powers are yet? I'm assuming she must have some. Part of me keeps expecting her to turn blue and scaly at some point. I hadn't thought of it before, but it's a good point that we haven't seen what she might be able to do. Do we even know for sure that she's a mutant? It might be the obvious assumption given that she's leading a community of mutants, but maybe she got involved through Oliver rather than her own powers. It's good to see that they brought the powerful telekinetic along on this mission, but it does still leave the question of why he wasn't on the previous mission when he could have been very useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I am loving this very much. Might just be me, but I can easily just put the time period aside. I do it with Gotham, and Gotham isn't doing the trippy thing. 5 minutes ago, williamjm said: It's good to see that they brought the powerful telekinetic along on this mission, but it does still leave the question of why he wasn't on the previous mission when he could have been very useful. Maybe he's more brute force, like Goku accidentally knocking his wife through walls, he has no control over how powerful he is. Rendering him a bit of a liability on stealth stuff? Yeah weak sauce but it's all I have. Syd seemed more unstable than before in this ep, sure she's heady on the rush of being able to (feel like) touch someone, but she bypassed an awful lot of warning signs here. That deaf scene was grade A thriller. Easily my weekly highlight on tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 5 hours ago, red snow said: I like how the show is already so wacky that they can end the episode with the "they were in a mental asylum all along" and you know there's more going on. I thought it ended with "and then the Shadow King imprisoned them all in an astral construct". While I'm not completely loving the show, I like that it seems to be telling a much more straightforward story than its style was making it seem early on. Makes it easier to just enjoy the weirdness along the way, and suggests that the show will not pull a Lost, continuously hinting at interesting thins but disappointing when it comes to delivering answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Jon AS said: I thought it ended with "and then the Shadow King imprisoned them all in an astral construct". While I'm not completely loving the show, I like that it seems to be telling a much more straightforward story than its style was making it seem early on. Makes it easier to just enjoy the weirdness along the way, and suggests that the show will not pull a Lost, continuously hinting at interesting thins but disappointing when it comes to delivering answers. Yeah my first reaction was 'oh wait were they all in that asylum the whole time'? I had to think back to that group shot where they were all sitting in a circle from the first episode. But it wasn't them, and so I realised it was all an illusion. I have to say the show has grabbed me. I don't think the story is especially brilliant or well written, its pretty middle of the road, and I still think Dan Stevens is pretty weak as an actor.. but the directional choices being made are so awesome that I just have to keep watching. I mean who else would have that silent section in there?! There were so many elements of this episode that gave me throwbacks to 1970's horror movies, it was all so chillingly lo-fi. When David is on CCTV killing people it reminded me of the riddler in 1960's Batman, just off the wall and odd, and not really fitting to the type of show I thought I was watching. Some of the camera moves were full Raimi and some of the lighting and set design was pure Neon Demon. That this show even exists is pretty phenomenal, that its in anyway related to the X-Men blows my mind. (although its pretty loose) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I haven't seen Dan Stevens in anything else (well i must have forgotten him in "walk among the tombstones") but I'm not convinced he's a bad actor - he might be a really good one that has chosen (or being told to use) odd mannerisms with his main character. I agree it could be annoying if that's the David we see most often but I've a feeling the character is going to be pretty fluid/evolving. Being super kind it may be that the weird tics are to symbolize how unstable the character is? time will tell if that's the case or not but I still think a bad actor would not have been able to distinguish himself as different without resorting to on the nose "goatee" tactics. If anything it was that the character was suddenly more balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 43 minutes ago, red snow said: I haven't seen Dan Stevens in anything else (well i must have forgotten him in "walk among the tombstones") but I'm not convinced he's a bad actor - he might be a really good one that has chosen (or being told to use) odd mannerisms with his main character. I agree it could be annoying if that's the David we see most often but I've a feeling the character is going to be pretty fluid/evolving. Being super kind it may be that the weird tics are to symbolize how unstable the character is? time will tell if that's the case or not but I still think a bad actor would not have been able to distinguish himself as different without resorting to on the nose "goatee" tactics. If anything it was that the character was suddenly more balanced. The only other thing I've seen him in is The Guest, in which I had a similar feeling about him not really fitting the role particularly well. In Legion I just feel like he's doing his 'crazy' thing in the most obvious, unsubtle way. I'm starting to think this is on purpose now, with Aubrey Plaza behaving in a similarly over the top manner, and if they are part of the same person then it would make sense. Having said that, I think they are both hamming it up in a not especially clever way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Dan Stevens is playing the Beast in the soon to be released Beauty and the Best. So that will be a significant opportunity to see what kind of actor he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Feels weird... I'm going to be watching the show as it happens tonight. No fast forwarding the commercials this time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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