Changed your mind

[shortguy457]

4 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

Started to dislike Daenerys due to the Meereenese knot.

What's the Meereenese knot?

[Orphalesion]

Just now, shortguy457 said:

What's the Meereenese knot?

A fan name for her basically stranding herself in Meereen and "playing Queen" there instead of going to Westeros with her Dragons like she promised us in Book 1. I think the name is inspired by the Gordian Knot (a knot that was said to be impossible to undo) and points out that the plot there has become so complicated and bogged down with subplots that it almost seems impossible that Daenerys will ever leave again.

Basically i don't care for Meereen's politics, I don't care about the fate of the slaves, I don't care about her failed reforms, I don't care about the green, the white, the purple or the polka dotted Graces and I don't care about the Sons of the Harpy. I just want her to leave that awful city and never come back.

[Nevets]

9 minutes ago, shortguy457 said:

What's the Meereenese knot?

 

4 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

A fan name for her basically stranding herself in Meereen and "playing Queen" there instead of going to Westeros with her Dragons like she promised us in Book 1. I think the name is inspired by the Gordian Knot (a knot that was said to be impossible to undo) and points out that the plot there has become so complicated and bogged down with subplots that it almost seems impossible that Daenerys will ever leave again.

Basically i don't care for Meereen's politics, I don't care about the fate of the slaves, I don't care about her failed reforms, I don't care about the green, the white, the purple or the polka dotted Graces and I don't care about the Sons of the Harpy. I just want her to leave that awful city and never come back.

Actually, I think GRRM came up with the term.  I think it refers to the difficulty he was having in coordinating events in Meereen with multiple POVs (some of whom were en route) and making sure all events had a POV to cover them (hence the introduction of Barristan as a POV).  This was the reason he gave for ADWD being delayed.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Regarding lemons, we are told that trees do not grow in Braavos. But we are also told that trees do grow in the courtyards of the mighty in Braavos. We also see that citrus fruits come from places like Dorne and Tyrosh. 

For an alternative to the secret identity theories, try this. 

[CornishDornish]

Used to think that Doran Martell wanted Quentyn to fetch him some dragons for Dorne. Now I think that he only wants Quentyn and his Ironwood mates far away from Westeros as possible.

Used to think that Aegon was a true targ, now I'm bought on the idea that he's a Blackfyre and that he's Illyrio's son born from his long dead wife Serra.

 

[Orphalesion]

3 minutes ago, Nevets said:

 

Actually, I think GRRM came up with the term.  I think it refers to the difficulty he was having in coordinating events in Meereen with multiple POVs (some of whom were en route) and making sure all events had a POV to cover them (hence the introduction of Barristan as a POV).  This was the reason he gave for ADWD being delayed.

Ahhhh okay, cool, thanks.

[Lost Melnibonean]

On the Meereenese Knot...

Quote

Q: Part of the difficulty of this particular novel was what you called the "Meereenese Knot", trying to get everything to happen in just the right order, pulling various plot strands together in one place, and part of the solution was the addition of another point of view character. Was this something where you tried writing it from a number of different point of views before settling on a new one? Did you actively resist adding a new character?

A: The Meerenese Knot related to everyone reaching Dany. There's a series of events that have to occur in Meereen, things that are significant. She has various problems to deal with at the start: dealing with the slavers, threats of war, the Sons of the Harpy, and so on. At the same time, there's all of these characters trying to get to her. So the problem was to figure out who should reach her and in what order, and what events should happen by the time they've reached her. I kept coming up with different answers and I kept having to rewrite different versions and then not being satisfied with the dynamics until I found something that was satisfactory. I thought that solution worked well, but it was not my first choice.

There's a Dany scene in the book which is actually one of the oldest chapters in the book that goes back almost ten years now. When I was contemplating the five year gap [Martin laughs here, with some chagrin], that chapter was supposed to be the first Daenerys chapter in the book. Then it became the second chapter, and then the third chapter, and it kept getting pushed back as I inserted more things into it. I've rewritten that chapter so much that it ended in many different ways.

There's a certain time frame of the chronology where you can compare to A Feast for Crows and even A Storm of Swords and figure out when they would reach Meereen and the relative time frames of each departure and each arrival. But that doesn't necessarily lead to the most dramatic story. So you look at it and try and figure out how to do it. I also wanted to get across how difficult and dangerous it was to travel like this. There are many storms that will wreck your ship, there are dangerous lands in between where there are pirates and corsairs, and all that stuff. It's not like hopping on a 747, where you get on and then step off the plane a few hours later. So all of these considerations went into the Meereenese Knot.

Then there's showing things after [an important event], which proved to be very difficult. I tried it with one point of view character, but this was an outsider who could only guess at what was going on, and then I tried it with a different character and it was also difficult. The big solution was when I hit on adding a new point of view character who could give the perspective this part of the story needed.

SSM

[Coolbeard the Exile]

3 hours ago, KingMance said:

Oh I know. And it's all absolutely ridiculous. I use to by into mance being Rhaegar, but too many questions arise that require big stretches of the imagination to be answered.

Why is it ridiculous? Rhaegar being Mance is ridicolous but i don't understand why you believe that that theory is ridicolous.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

No specific mind-changing incidents so far, but I have to say that the pro-Dornish element of the boards have had a positive impact on me. I wasn't anti-Dornish but I do have a deeper appreciation for the entire Dorne arc than I did before I joined this community.

 

[KingMance]

2 hours ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Why is it ridiculous? Rhaegar being Mance is ridicolous but i don't understand why you believe that that theory is ridicolous.

Because of the leaps and bounds you have to go through to make it believable. A theory is supposed to explain something, not open 100 more questions with theories of their own. It's a cool idea, and the two characters definitely have connections, but him being glamoured/not really at the trident/hiding in the haunted forest for 15+ years don't hold any water. 

[Coolbeard the Exile]

8 hours ago, KingMance said:

Because of the leaps and bounds you have to go through to make it believable. A theory is supposed to explain something, not open 100 more questions with theories of their own. It's a cool idea, and the two characters definitely have connections, but him being glamoured/not really at the trident/hiding in the haunted forest for 15+ years don't hold any water. 

Did you read what i wrote? Rhagar being Mance is ridicolous but the best theory is by far that the 3 kingsguard are alive and are Tormund=Gerold, Oswell=Qhorin and Arthur= Mance

[Missing Benjen]

19 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Did you read what i wrote? Rhagar being Mance is ridicolous but the best theory is by far that the 3 kingsguard are alive and are Tormund=Gerold, Oswell=Qhorin and Arthur= Mance

But wasn't Mance raised by the Night Watch? How does this theory explain that? Did the 'real' Mance die at some point and Arthur took his Place or what exactly did happen here? 

[KingMance]

11 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Did you read what i wrote? Rhagar being Mance is ridicolous but the best theory is by far that the 3 kingsguard are alive and are Tormund=Gerold, Oswell=Qhorin and Arthur= Mance

Ah, my mind skipped over the second "that" in your post. I thought it was an oddly worded question!  Oops.

The same issues come up though with that theory, however. The NW has members from all over the 7 Kingdoms, including kings landing, and a few highborn members too. SOMEONE would surely notice the "best swordsman of all time", or Oswell taking an odd name. And why would Hightower disappear beyond the wall and then occasionally sneak back to bump uglies with a Mormont chick? HAR! 

I love the secret identity discussions, they lead to some pretty compelling evidence and reasoning most of the time, but (and correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long while since I saw this) how could any of them be sure Jon would show up to protect him there? 15 years is a long time. 

 

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

5 minutes ago, Missing Benjen said:

But wasn't Mance raised by the Night Watch? How does this theory explain that? Did the 'real' Mance die at some point and Arthur took his Place or what exactly did happen here? 

That is the strangest thing? The fact that Gerold had Maege Mormont as his paramour and her daughters were his daughters when she was staying at Bear Isle and he was staying in KL and at the same time he had children Beyond the Wall makes more sense?

[Coolbeard the Exile]

41 minutes ago, Missing Benjen said:

But wasn't Mance raised by the Night Watch? How does this theory explain that? Did the 'real' Mance die at some point and Arthur took his Place or what exactly did happen here? 

Check this out 

 

[Lord Wraith]

1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

That is the strangest thing? The fact that Gerold had Maege Mormont as his paramour and her daughters were his daughters when she was staying at Bear Isle and he was staying in KL and at the same time he had children Beyond the Wall makes more sense?

They have some leaps  in their theories but there is some good stuff there IMO. I am sure others are laughing it off.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 minute ago, Lord Wraith said:

They have some leaps  in their theories but there is some good stuff there IMO. I am sure others are laughing it off.

Some leaps? Like Val being Allyria, Ned’s daughter and Jon’s twin? Stannis knows it and for some reason even if they are not Targaryens he wants them together.

The KG(HalfhandWhent, TormundHightower AND ManceDayne) are in league with  Wyman Manderly, Stannis, Bloodraven who is prisoner, Mel who is really Shiera, Jeor Mormont,  Maege Mormont,  Leyton Hightower, Illyrio Mopatis( who glamour himself as Salladhor Saan), Varys and Ned against the CotF and the Faceless Men?

Rhaegar and Lyanna were hiding in Winterfell and their son Aegon, YG, was born there?

Jon is Ned's only trueborn son and Cat's children are bastards because Ned married Jon's mother Ashara at White Harbor and the Tully brothers knew it. So when Hoster forced Ned to marry Cat, Blackfish abandoned his family to serve the Arryns?

Heck even I who loath Cat find their reasons of hating Cat ARE SILLY. However the only theory I found interesting was Rohanne Webber being Old Nan until I saw that the timeline doesn’t work. Rohanne was at CR in 229-230 while Old Nan went to WF before 226 AL.

[Coolbeard the Exile]

31 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Some leaps? Like Val being Allyria, Ned’s daughter and Jon’s twin? Stannis knows it and for some reason even if they are not Targaryens he wants them together.

The KG(HalfhandWhent, TormundHightower AND ManceDayne) are in league with  Wyman Manderly, Stannis, Bloodraven who is prisoner, Mel who is really Shiera, Jeor Mormont,  Maege Mormont,  Leyton Hightower, Illyrio Mopatis( who glamour himself as Salladhor Saan), Varys and Ned against the CotF and the Faceless Men?

Rhaegar and Lyanna were hiding in Winterfell and their son Aegon, YG, was born there?

Jon is Ned's only trueborn son and Cat's children are bastards because Ned married Jon's mother Ashara at White Harbor and the Tully brothers knew it. So when Hoster forced Ned to marry Cat, Blackfish abandoned his family to serve the Arryns?

Heck even I who loath Cat find their reasons of hating Cat ARE SILLY. However the only theory I found interesting was Rohanne Webber being Old Nan until I saw that the timeline doesn’t work. Rohanne was at CR in 229-230 while Old Nan went to WF before 226 AL.

 

Dude a leap is when there is a gap in something and you have to imagine something to make it work out. 

You just pointed out what is in the theory but you didn't explain why they are huge massive impossible leaps and why the theory is silly.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Dude a leap is when there is a gap in something and you have to imagine something to make it work out. 

You just pointed out what is in the theory but you didn't explain why they are huge massive impossible leaps and why the theory is silly.

Ok chose one of those and I will explain why I believe that is utter nonsense.

[Curled Finger]

Reading in this place opened up so many ideas to me.  I listen to the books and tend to envision things the way Roy Dotrice inflects with his vocal gymnastics.  This place has taken the Iron Born who are hard to listen to on the best day and turned them into utterly fascinating characters.  Right around this time last year there were maybe 4 topics going simultaneously about Euron, Cold Hands and the undead in general.   I followed them all in absolute thrall and was opened up to all sorts of possibility.  There are a group of posters I affectionately call the detectives.   These are the folks who read all the text and manage to keep it in perspective and dream up some of the best ideas with very basic information.   I aspire to be a detective, but the story often carries me away into my own forgetful fantasy.