Needle of Ice Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I would say it was either Joffrey hiding while Stannis attacked King's Landing or Robert ordering the death of Daenerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Another one for me is Dany's "conquering" SB. Mainly because she makes other people to do her dirty job when she benefits from other people’s struggles. Basically she is a boss and not a leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf's Bane Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 On 2/18/2017 at 10:08 AM, Tianzi said: What? Definitely dumb and dishonorable (I agree with everything about his obligations to his people being WAY more important that obligations to Jeyne), but actually quite brave. And there is absolutely nothing suggesting he used it as a pretext to escape his oath to Frey. Robb did what Robb wanted to do but he was not man enough to admit it. That coward hid behind honor to try and explain away why he chose to marry Jeyne. He was too afraid to besmirch his family owner to admit that he married Jeyne because it was what he wanted to do and not because he only felt obligated to marry her after he chose to sleep with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desire Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Blood and Cheese hands down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 6 hours ago, Steelshanks Walton said: Robb did what Robb wanted to do but he was not man enough to admit it. That coward hid behind honor to try and explain away why he chose to marry Jeyne. He was too afraid to besmirch his family owner to admit that he married Jeyne because it was what he wanted to do and not because he only felt obligated to marry her after he chose to sleep with her. That's your interpretation of his motives and as I recall, there is not much in the book to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Snowflake Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 On 2/18/2017 at 11:28 AM, Jon's Queen Consort said: Another one for me is Dany's "conquering" SB. Mainly because she makes other people to do her dirty job when she benefits from other people’s struggles. Basically she is a boss and not a leader. Ah the classic Danny hate post. I'm not trying to be snooty, but I'm having trouble following your logic. The Unsullied chose to follow The Dragon after she freed them....the same as Missendai. Dany was at the forefront of the taking of Ataspor. And would have done the same at Mereen, but her advisers smartly told her to stay in the rear. So how "she makes other people do her dirty job" and what world are you living in that the freeing of slaves is seen as a cowardly act? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 On 2/18/2017 at 6:19 PM, Needle of Ice said: I would say it was either Joffrey hiding while Stannis attacked King's Landing As I said before, Joffrey didn't hide during Blackwater. It was probably the only instance of him behaving as a king, manning the walls and wanting to lead the defense of the Red Keep. It was Cersei who ordered to be brought inside the castle. Regarding cowardly acts. Lysa not calling the banners - despite that many of the Vale's lords wished to join Robb - was a very coward act of far reaching consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 41 minutes ago, The Pimp that was Promised said: Ah the classic Danny hate post. I'm not trying to be snooty, but I'm having trouble following your logic. The Unsullied chose to follow The Dragon after she freed them....the same as Missendai. Dany was at the forefront of the taking of Ataspor. And would have done the same at Mereen, but her advisers smartly told her to stay in the rear. So how "she makes other people do her dirty job" and what world are you living in that the freeing of slaves is seen as a cowardly act? Has she ever lead the army? Has she ever fought in a battle in the front line just like a leader would had done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 37 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Has she ever lead the army? Has she ever fought in a battle in the front line just like a leader would had done? Of course there you are with illogical hate posts. Why would she have to lead in the front? She wasn't trained for it. Untrained people leading in front would be disastrous. It is smart to let capable people lead. I know you have a death wish for her but expecting her to fight from front? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, khal drogon said: Of course there you are with illogical hate posts. Why would she have to lead in the front? She wasn't trained for it. Untrained people leading in front would be disastrous. It is smart to let capable people lead. I know you have a death wish for her but expecting her to fight from front? Seriously? She wasn't trained to rule either but that didn't stop her from destroyed numberless lives while she was playing the Queen. The way I see it if a leader wants to use numberless titles he or she has to earn them and sent others to fight for her while she is doesn’t fight for it is means that she hasn’t earned her titles and that she is at least a coward, just like how Joff is a coward for not fighting at the Battle of Blackwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: She wasn't trained to rule but that didn't stop her from destroyed numberless lives while she was playing the Queen. The way I see it if a leader wants to use numberless titles he or she has to earn them and sent others to fight for her while she is doesn’t fight for it is means that she hasn’t earned her titles and that she is at least a coward, just like how Joff is a coward for not fighting at the Battle of Blackwater LOL at not earning the titles. Mother of Dragons is because she hatched the dragons by walking through fire, Unburnt is by namesake, Breaker of chains is because it is she who liberated the Unsullied by giving command, the slaves called her Mhysa. Which title she didn't earn? Yeah untrained girls who can't fight are cowards. Sansa is a coward because she can't fight to defend herselves. Queens like Nymeria or Rhaenyra are cowards because they didn't fight physically. Because ability don't matter. Women who can't fight themselves are cowards. You can't get anymore petty. Robert Baratheon made other people to do his job for him. Yet I never saw you calling him a bad ruler or he doesn't earn the title of king and you even defend him. Awful double standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, khal drogon said: LOL at not earning the titles. Mother of Dragons is because she hatched the dragons by walking through fire, Unburnt is by namesake, Breaker of chains is because it is she who liberated the Unsullied by giving command, the slaves called her Mhysa. Which title she didn't earn? Yeah untrained girls who can't fight are cowards. Sansa is a coward because she can't fight to defend herselves. Queens like Nymeria or Rhaenyra are cowards because they didn't fight physically. Because ability don't matter. Women who can't fight themselves are cowards. You can't get anymore petty. Robert Baratheon made other people to do his job for him. Yet I never saw you calling him a bad ruler or he doesn't earn the title of king and you even defend him. Awful double standards. If you want to use one example at a King not fighting is Robert. Robert's whole life was about fighting. He won his Throne. Unlike Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: If you want to use one example at a King not fighting is Robert. Robert's whole life was about fighting. He won his Throne. Unlike Dany. I am talking about his ruling. Jon did the ruling for him. Yet I see you praising him for giving the job to Arryn as giving his job to someone more suitable than him. You didn't want him to give up his kingship because he didn't rule directly. Serious double standards. LOL at winning his throne. The throne was won for him. I don't think Robert led everyone and won by only his strategies. Jon made the alliances. Ned won battles. Tywin took KL and gave it to him. And it was Jaime who made sure a part of his army didn't burn with wildfire. In fact Daenerys has more involvement in her slavers bay victories than Robert had in the rebellion. Yet you call his earned. Nymeria didn't fight physically yet she was considered the greatest queen of the Rhoynar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYellowAppleFossoway Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Has she ever lead the army? Has she ever fought in a battle in the front line just like a leader would had done? Fighting from the rear is a strategic decision. We know for a fact that Tywin Lannister and Stannis Baratheon both command from the back, and they are two of the most respected battle commanders of their time. There are also numerous commanders who we don't know where they fight/fought in their regiment of troops. Some of the unknowns include: Eddard Stark, Jon Arryn, Hoster Tully, Randyll Tarly, and many more. In short, your criticism that commanding from the back lines makes you cowardly is silly. I also find it funny that you use Robert Baratheon as an example to somewhat justify your claim. A great warrior was he, but he was not much of an intelligent leader anywhere besides the battlefield. And that's more of a generating zeal thing through his martial prowess. I don't think we've gotten any evidence Robert was a great battle strategist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said: As I said before, Joffrey didn't hide during Blackwater. It was probably the only instance of him behaving as a king, manning the walls and wanting to lead the defense of the Red Keep. It was Cersei who ordered to be brought inside the castle. Regarding cowardly acts. Lysa not calling the banners - despite that many of the Vale's lords wished to join Robb - was a very coward act of far reaching consequences. Lysa didn't send her banners because of paranoia and because she didn't want to not because of her cowardice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, khal drogon said: Lysa didn't send her banners because of paranoia and because she didn't want to not because of her cowardice. All cowardly acts have some rationalizations, fear chief among them. Sure, Lysa wasn't in her best (thanks to LF manipulations too) but trying to keep the swords close wasn't exactly liberating. 1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: She wasn't trained to rule either but that didn't stop her from destroyed numberless lives while she was playing the Queen. The way I see it if a leader wants to use numberless titles he or she has to earn them and sent others to fight for her while she is doesn’t fight for it is means that she hasn’t earned her titles and that she is at least a coward, just like how Joff is a coward for not fighting at the Battle of Blackwater You seem to have a narrow definition of leadership. Daenerys probably did one of the most brave acts in the series when she decided to free the slaves. She took huge risks for something that seemingly only distracted of her main objective. Also, the comment regarding Joffrey is also wrong. For once Joffrey behaved. He didn't fight on the front, but he stayed in his post, manning the wall and he wouldn't have abandoned his position if it wasn't for his mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 43 minutes ago, TheYellowAppleFossoway said: Fighting from the rear is a strategic decision. We know for a fact that Tywin Lannister and Stannis Baratheon both command from the back, and they are two of the most respected battle commanders of their time. Yet they one way or the other were *leading* the war by making the plans, Dany just use the dragons to take down the ridiculous enemies she has. 44 minutes ago, TheYellowAppleFossoway said: I don't think we've gotten any evidence Robert was a great battle strategist. Sure. Winning not one but two wars is nothing. 59 minutes ago, khal drogon said: LOL at winning his throne. The throne was won for him. I don't think Robert led everyone and won by only his strategies. Jon made the alliances. Ned won battles. Tywin took KL and gave it to him. And it was Jaime who made sure a part of his army didn't burn with wildfire. Robert also won battles and it was his charisma and talent that won at the battlefield. He made his enemies to die for him and he killed Rhaegar, not Ned or Jon or Tywin. It was all Robert. He won the Throne. Dany on the other hand used the power Drogo gave to her and after that used the power the dragons gave to her. When she did something based on her own self with no magic, no dragons and no one else to protect her? 11 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said: Daenerys probably did one of the most brave acts in the series when she decided to free the slaves. She decided to free them because she couldn’t pay for them. She took no risk to free them, since the dragons and the Dothraki kept her safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Two words: Robert Baratheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Just now, rotting sea cow said: All cowardly acts have some rationalizations, fear chief among them. Sure, Lysa wasn't in her best (thanks to LF manipulations too) but trying to keep the swords close wasn't exactly liberating. Lysa did not want to play her cards because she never liked Cat and didn't want to help her. Before her reveal it could be argued it is cowardly but after the reveal it is not but she is a very interesting character who showed different shades. As for other cowardly acts, Darkstar mutilating Myrcella comes to my mind. No body mentioned the poster-child of cowardice, Janos Slynt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: Two words: Robert Baratheon. And? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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