Snow and the great stone beast breathing shadow fire (HotU II,3)

[Amris]

Snow and the great stone beast breathing shadow fire (HotU II,3)

 

I am taking a new look at stanza II, sentence 3 of the Houses of the Undying vision triplets:

 

From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.

 

This is arguably the hardest to interpret sentence in the prophecy. Though it is actually easier than one might assume. You may be surprised. Let's walk through this step by step:

 

A smoking tower. A great stone beast taking wing. Shadow fire, being breathed by said stone beast. Very intriguing!

 

I want to start out with a simple question:

- Is the HotU prophecy a minor riddle in the plot or is it of major importance for the story?

 

The answer is clear. It is obviously one of the main puzzles of the series – if not the centerpiece prophetic puzzle of the series.

 

If that is so then my next question is:

- What is more likely? That a smoking tower mentioned in this central piece of storytelling is some out-of-the-way ruin in some random place or that it is located in one of the central locations of this epic?

 

The answer of course is that it is much more likely that the places we get shown in the HotU prophecy are some of the most important locations we meet in the rest of the story. In short: The smoking tower will probably be a tower we know very well!

 

- To further narrow down the search I want to ask: What is the HotU prophecy about?

 

Unfortunately we haven't deciphered all of the prophecy yet. But I think we can safely assume it has something to do with the title of the series 'Ice and Fire'. And with Jon and Dany. Let's call it: the ice-arc and the fire-arc.

 

So let's narrow our remaining bunch of towers down to those associated with Ice or Fire. (Duh – a smoking tower is by default associated with fire. But you know what I mean.)

 

- Which is the main location Dany is talking about all the time in the fire arc?

 

The one with that dreadful metal chair she keeps fantazising about? The one with the – oh – Red Keep? Yeah, King's Landing. And – ooops – a tower did burn down there. The Tower of the Hand. We have our fire-arc candidate. (You could say Meereen too of course since Dany seems to be continously unable to get away from there. But which tower did burn in Meereen? None that I recall. Besides: Is Meereen end-game material? Not likely.)

 

- Which is the main location in the Jon arc?

 

The Wall you say? yeah, okay I get it. That's kind of like the Meereen thing for Dany. Jon seems unable to get away from it. So possible. But is there a better one? One that sounds like prime end-game material? One that has about the same importance in the ice–arc as King's Landing and the Red Keep have in the fire- arc?

Put this way the answer is obvious: Winterfell. And it burned. How it burned. We have our ice-arc candidate too.

 

Now lets look at our candidates and see if we are right:

 

The Tower of the Hand in the Red Keep was burned down by Cersei in AFfC chapter 13 Cersei III using 50 pots of wildfire. Rereading it I found lots of green flames but no stone beasts. And no one and nothing taking wing. Yes, something heavy does fall down – but it is crenellation, not a beast. No wings mentioned. No dragons, no gargoyles. Nothing hatches. Also to my surprise no mention of smoke. I mean seriously: A fire – a huge fire. But George does not mention smoke at all?

This can not have anything to do with the smoking tower from HotU II,3.

 

And our other candidate – the burning of Winterfell?

 

Clash, chapter 69, Bran VII:

 

Bran through Summer's eyes sees the burning of Winterfell from the edge of the Wolfswood:

„Beyond the open fields he could see the great piles of man-rock stark against the swirling flames. … The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, ...“

 

Unlike the Tower of the Hand fire here we have the smoke and the fire just like in HotU II,3. And George does not stop there. The sentence continues:

„... and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame.“ ...

 

We have the smoke and fire and now the winged creature too which George found it necessary to explicitly add and the fire breathing. Also we know the fire was able to cast a lot of shadows ('shadow fire') because the scene makes it clear it happened at night:

„Behind the cliffs tall fires were eating up the stars. … All through the night the fires crackled, ...“

 

Where is the stone though? Wasn't a stone beast supposed to take wing and not just a metaphorical fire snake seen in the sky? The sentence continues:

„...and once there was a great roar and a crash that made the earth jump under his feet.“

 

Something heavy crashed down. Heavy implying stone. What was it specifically though? Bran returns from Summer's skin to his own and the group which had hidden in the crypts at Eddard's tomb climbs the spiral stairs to explore:

„One whole side of the building [the Old Keep that is, under which the crypt entrance is located] had torn loose and fallen away.

 

We know from GoT chapter 8 Bran II that there are gargoyles on the Old Keep, next to the broken tower. But in case someone reading the burning of Winterfell in Clash had forgotten that detail during the wait for Clash George mentions the gargoyles again. And makes it explicitly clear what it was that has fallen. The next sentence:

„Stone and shattered gargoyles lay strewn across the yard. They fell just where I did, Bran thought. …“

 

We have stone gargoyles taking wing (falling down). It can't get any more literal than that. In addition we have the smoke and fire – mentioned over and over again. Even a winged snake breathing fire.

 

Do we have a tower though? Of course we do. We already know from GoT chapter 8, Brann II that the Old Keep is located next to the broken tower which can be reached via climbing along the gargoyles. But in case it has faded from memory George finds it necessary to mention that again too:

„Where the wall had fallen away the broken tower still stood, no more burned than before.“

 

And to make the connection between the tower and the smoke even more clear the smoke which had been mentioned throughout the chapter makes another appearance in the sentence directly following George's reminding us of the tower:

„Jojen Reed was coughing from the smoke.“

 

George does not stop there either. Here we have the same location again in ADwD chapter 41 'The Turncloak' when Lady Dustin asks Theon to show her the entrance to the crypts:

„The entrance to the crypts was in the oldest section of the castle, near the foot of the First Keep, which had sat unused for hundreds of years. Ramsay had put it to the torch when he sacked Winterfell, and much of what had not burned had collapsed. Only a shell remained, one side open to the elements and filling up with snow. Rubble was strewn all about it: great chunks of shattered masonry, burned beams, broken gargoyles. The falling snow had covered almost all of it, but part of one gargoyle still poked above the drift, its grotesque face snarling sightless at the sky. This is where they found Bran when he fell.“

 

The very same place one of the key scenes of the series took place at the very beginning – our little ice-arc boy falling – the same boy who had just returned out of Summer in the emerging-from-the-crypts scene in Clash. The boy who has been told ' … but you will fly'). Winter fell. But he did not die. And the fallen winged stone beast is still staring up out of the snow, snarling. My, my.

 

I think we have solved this part of the riddle. But there is more – if you are up to continuing.

 

The smoking tower is not only the location where the stone gargoyle - Winter - fell:

 

At this very place there is also is the entrance to the crypts of Winterfell. With their rows of Stone lords and Stone kings and stone wolves. And with Lyanna's tomb which keeps popping up in the series.

 

Here we get into speculative territory. Our RLJ connection to HotU II,3 From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire is more tentative than the Bran connection. George is not as explicit as he is with Bran – probably because he hasn't revealed Jon's parentage yet.

 

Nevertheless pretty much all of us think RLJ is a given by now. And many of us have read the theories of what it might have to do with Lyanna's tomb and what clues might be found in that. There is the harp theory for instance. I don't want to go into all of that here but I think it likely something important is to be found in Lyanna's tomb.

 

I submit that since we have located the smoking tower now and we do know Lyanna's tomb is directly below the smoking tower this kind of screams that the stone beast breathing shadow fire might not only be ice-related (Bran) but also fire-related (Jon being revealed as a Targaryen i.e. a dragon).

 

While writing this post I found this very interesting thread by Apple Martini from 2013 about the very same HotU line (II,3).I recommend reading it at this point.

 

 

To make it short (I hope I get the gist of it): Apple Martini makes good points about From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire relating to a dormant Targaryen being uncovered (Jon). I don't want to copy all her reasoning here but she cites a lot of text and her arguments are sound IMO. (EDIT: Had originally inaccurately written 'his').

 

Now if we accept Apple's reasoning concerning Jon then we can now add to it and complete that theory: the stone beast taking wing may be a metaphor for Jon as Apple Martini speculates – but not only a metaphor. It has a very literal side too: We can and have been able to pinpoint the location of the smoking tower – at the entrance to the crypts. We were able to find a real stone beast taking wing there. And we have a literal stone tomb down there which may very well contain the clues that lead to the metaphorical winged stone beast (Jon) being uncovered as a dragon.

But is there direct text evidence for Jon?

Well …

The falling snow had covered almost all of it, but part of one gargoyle still poked above the drift, its grotesque face snarling sightless at the sky.“ ADwD chapter 41 'The Turncloak'

 

A winged stone beast staring out of the snow? Yes, it is Bran since that's were he fell and since he's been promised to fly. But it may be Jon too if you ask me.

 

Conclusion:

 

- The smoking tower is definitely the one at the First Keep in Winterfell above the crypts.

- In the ice – arc the stone beast taking wing is Bran falling. The Bran who has been promised to fly and keeps dreaming about flying.

- The prophecy may have a double meaning. In the fire-arc and in a metaphorical sense another stone may be Jon. Jon whose parentage might be uncovered right there next to the fallen gargoyle in the crypts.

 

EDIT: I just realized the Bran-meaning and the Jon-meaning of the stone beast taking wing and breathing shadow fire might actually be one of the same: Let's look at that very revealing sentence in ADwD chapter 41 'The Turncloak' again but with a different emphasis:

            The falling snow had covered almost all of it, but part of one gargoyle still poked above the drift, its grotesque face snarling sightless at the sky.“

The sky right there above Winterfell is were Summer had seen the winged snake breathing fire. The stone may be sightless but the living Bran is not. Indeed we have been shown how Bran is learning to use his greenseer abilities and see into the past. And I guess most of us already are pretty sure that Bran will sooner or later discover Jon's hidden parentage (half dragon) through his sight.

So the complete meaning: at the smoking tower (Broken Tower of the First Keep of Winterfell) the stone beast taking wing (Bran who has been foretold he will fly) through his greensight discovers a hidden dragon, uncovering a lie (Jon's parentage). And through Lyanna's tomb which GRRM conveniently and purposefully has placed right there beneath the smoking tower this will be confirmed.

 

***

In case someone has not had enough yet:

Btw: wasn't there something about treasons in the HotU?

The above mentioned AdwD chapter 41 with its fallen stone gargoyle and the Bran and Jon HotU stone beast taking wing references is titled 'The Turncloak'. (I wonder if it may have something to do with treason?) We have Theon thinking about his treason against the Starks. And Ramsay's treason against him. You remember HotU I,2 (the line about the lord with the banner showing a fiery stallion?) Theon called himself Prince (that's a lord, right?) and he had a stallion called Smiler which was set afire during the burning of Winterfell. He remembers the scene very vividly in 'The Turncloak'.

 

Clash, chapter 66, Theon VI:

 

„The last thing Theon Geyjoy saw was Smiler, kicking free of the burning stables with his mane ablaze, screaming, rearing ...“

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Smiler

Also Theon's formerly dark hair had turned white under Ramsays tender ministrations. I guess in the yellow shine of the fire from – say a burning fortress with a burning Winter town in the background – white hair could look white-gold. Does HotU I,2 have two meanings also maybe? (ice arc Theon, fire arc Rhaego?) But that is for another post. I have not dug into this yet.

 

[rotting sea cow]

How is this connected to the 'slayer of lies' and the other two visions we know with more certainty?

Notice, there is a good possibility that the tower is indeed at Winterfell.

[Amris]

1 minute ago, rotting sea cow said:

How is this connected to the 'slayer of lies' and the other two visions we know with more certainty?

Notice, there is a good possibility that the tower is indeed at Winterfell.

I have not thought through the other parts of the prophecy in relation to this discovery yet.

Spontaneously I would default to my old reading of the HotU vision triplet II: II 1 being Stannis (slayer of lies meaning he is discovered as fake Azor Ahai)

II 2 being Aegon (slayer of lies meaning he is discovered as fake prince that was promised)

II 3 if referring to Jon (slayer of lies meaning his real identity being discovered. However in light of the II 3-Bran discovery it could very well also (or instead) mean that slayer of lies means that it is discovered that Bran is still alive - and not killed by Theon as has been claimed)

 

If I 2 (the tall lord with the burning horse banner) is indeed Theon then that would explain one of the three treasons and one of the three fires. (Or all three treasons since the burning of Winterfell really was 3: Theon betraying the Starks, Ramsay betraying Theon, Ramsay betraying the Starks). The fire would obviously be Winterfell. Theon would be the treason for love since in The Turncloak chapter Lady Dustin down in the crypts shrewdly observes that Theon loves the Starks. A fact he is forced to kind of admit to himself.

[GloubieBoulga]

Wow, another thread I have so much to answer ! But I must be short, yet

I totally agree about the location at Winterfell. And with Bran as the "winged beast"
But this "vision" (it is a vision) isn't isolated : it matches with two others, and they are a kind of developpement for "slayer of lies". I think the lies are very important to consider here and are the key to understand why it could be Winterfell and Bran (if I think that Jon has a part to play here, I think also he don't appear in this vision, and isn't the "beast winged", because Daenerys precisely don't recognize a dragon in the beast) 

To finish and make it short the "stone beast" can also be the weirwood : Winterfell is assimilated (in Bran II, AGOT) to a "montrous stone tree", and weirwoods become stone like Nagga's bones or the one at Raventree. In this case, the wings could be the wings of a crow. And - as old Nan says - "all crows are liars" ^^

So, is the "shadow fire" the lies ? Or at least the truth who can emerges from a mouth who was saying liars ? 

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Possible. Well put-together. Nicely done.

I have to say, based on your response to rotting sea cow, that the tall lord with the burning horse banner is generally accepted to be the future Dany's son Rhaego might have had, which really fits better than Theon. Rhaego gets the horse from his father's people, and the fire from his mother's. Theon is a Greyjoy--he's got water and treachery.

 

[Chaircat Meow]

This is good work.

I think it makes sense for the great stone beast to refer to an individual concerning whom there is a lie. The other two bits of this part of the prophecy pertain to fAegon and Stannis, so this bit being about Bran, and his fake death, fits quite well.

[Sophist]

I agree that the tower probably refers to Winterfell. I'm still thinking about the rest, but very plausible.

One small note: Apple Martini is a she.

[Lost Melnibonean]

So, you are saying that the smoking tower is the tower that crashed down in the immediate aftermath of the Sack of Winterfell? And the great stone beast taking wing was the smoky winged snake Summer saw? And the shadow fire was the snake's river of flame roar? 

...

And this scene from Summer's point of view represents Jon? 

...

Hmm...

I like it. I am not sold, but I like it a lot. 

[PCK]

Shadow fire is mentioned in the sample chapter featuring Aeron from Winds. 

[Amris]

5 hours ago, Sophist said:

I agree that the tower probably refers to Winterfell. I'm still thinking about the rest, but very plausible.

One small note: Apple Martini is a she.

Thank you! Have corrected the pronoun in the OP now.

[Amris]

5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

So, you are saying that the smoking tower is the tower that crashed down in the immediate aftermath of the Sack of Winterfell? And the great stone beast taking wing was the smoky winged snake Summer saw? And the shadow fire was the snake's river of flame roar? 

...

And this scene from Summer's point of view represents Jon? 

...

Hmm...

I like it. I am not sold, but I like it a lot. 

Not quite. The smoking tower did not crash down. George makes it clear it is still standing: „Where the wall had fallen away the broken tower still stood, no more burned than before.“ What did crash down was one wall of the First Keep (right next to the smoking tower). The very wall with the gargoyles along which Bran had climbed in GoT chapter 8 Bran II to reach the broken tower (smoking tower as we now know). George is very exact about all that in Clash chapter 69 Bran VII.

The scene definitely represents Bran. Bran is the fallen stone beast.

Whether HotU II,3 also represents Jon is debatable. I am inclined to say yes though because of Apple Martini's nice post which I cited and a lot of other things. Summer's fiery dragon vision emerging over Winterfell which you mention for instance and Lyanna's tomb being located right under the smoking tower. And Lady Dustin talking to Theon about loving Starks right next to Lyanna's tomb. And Bran and company emerging from hiding at Ned's tomb (in other words next to Lyanna's). And so on and so on.