Stannis on Dragonstone

[Maxxine]

So this discussion somewhat came up in the most cowardly act thread so I want to create one solely about this topic. What was Stannis' intent by hiding out on Dragonstone during game? I'm of the opinion that his act was either a cowardly decision or a very callous decisions. It seems to me he either hid on Dragonstone because 1)he believed that Jon Arryn was killed because he found out about Cersei's children and he was afraid that he would be next. So instead of trying to tell Robert or Ned that the children were not Robert's and that Robert may be in danger, he ran and hid. Or 2) He went to Dragonstone because he just wanted to wait on Robert, then press his claim after the death because he knew that the children had no claim and he was technically next in line. This option would make sense considering he took the royal fleet and started strengthening his forces. Tbh, either option is out of character for Stannis. He's so pressed about what's right and what should be, it seems like he would stubbornly press the issue about Cersei's children regardless of the danger to himself or his feelings toward his brother. But I can't think of any other reasons why he would choose to leave. Any thoughts?

[Lord Wraith]

A bit of both methinks. He was definitely was investigating the incest and when Jon Arryn was killed it looked like he would be next. Pycelle specifically let them die and sent away Maester Colemon who was purging him. This lead more or less everyone to suspecting the Lannister since Pycelle is a well known Lannister stooge. Stannis would be doubly certain since he was helping Jon investigate.  That meant he was next and he wisely fled.

I think he knew that if he told Robert that nothing good would happen. Robert is really indecisive and not even Cersei is stupid enough to admit it front of Robert. The incest absolutely would seem self serving since it would make him the heir. Maybe it might have worked if he told Robert in private because openly coming out with the news is a good way to get Robert and Stannis killed. Frankly I'm amazed Cersei didn't attempt to kill Robert sooner.

[The Hoare]

Perharps he expected that Robert would travel to Dragonstone to bring him back to KL, which would be a good chance to expose the truth.

 

Staying in KL after Lord Arryn died would means his death and the truth would die with him

[Canon Claude]

GRRM needed Stannis out of the way for AGOT to play out the way he intended, no matter how out of character it was for him to do so.

[Orphalesion]

*Grampa Simpson Voice* A little from Column A and a little from Column B.

Mostly B though, I assume he figured that the poop was about to hit the fan and went to Dragon Stone to prepare for his move for the crown.

[Stormking902]

I always wondered did Robert not realize Stannis took the Royal fleet with him back to Dragonstone? Also wouldnt Stannis have to ask Robert to leave the captial he is on the small council after all his place is at court. 

[Trigger Warning]

He was having a tantrum because Robert made Ned hand. 

[Dolorous22]

Robert had little to no love for Stannis. And we see in the Riverlands, when Ned is forced to put Lady to rest - that Robert would yield to his Lannister benefactors. Stannis isn't a coward. The investigation died with Jon Arryn leaving Stannis on a council with,

LittleFinger - nobody can trust this guy.
Pycell - Lannister dog, through and through.
Varys - A man so informed he already knew and already chose to keep the incest a secret.

The only time I've seen him called a coward is by readers who want to write him off altogether. Imagine if Ned successfully escaped KL with his daughters. I don't think people would be calling him a coward. Instead, Ned chose to trust one or more of the above and paid the price. Brave to the point of foolishness. 

Everyone mentioned above have either died or fled. None remain in KL. 

Stannis makes a poor politician. Cold, indifferent and unlikable. Worse than our beloved Ned. Stannis would only ever win by conquest. So is it a surprise he returned to Dragonstone to consolidate his power? I don't think so. 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Stannis believed that Cersei was responsible for Jon Arryn's death. An understandable conclusion from him, although it was incorrect. So believing that his life was at risk for knowing the secret Jon Arryn had known as well, he returned to the place where he was safest: Dragonstone. Staying and informing Robert was not an option; He knew that Robert wouldn't believe him, that's why he went to Arryn in the first place.

“Lord Stannis,” she asked, “if you knew the queen to be guilty of such monstrous crimes, why did you keep silent? “
“I did not keep silent,” Stannis declared. “I brought my suspicions to Jon Arryn.”
“Rather than your own brother?”
“My brother’s regard for me was never more than dutiful,” said Stannis. “From me, such accusations would have seemed peevish and selfserving, a means of placing myself first in the line of succession. I believed Robert would be more disposed to listen if the charges came from Lord Arryn, whom he loved.”

And I can't say that he was wrong to think so.

"Don't you see the danger this puts us in?" the woman said. "Robert loves the man like a brother."

"Robert can barely stomach his brothers. Not that I blame him. Stannis would be enough to give anyone indigestion."

"Don't play the fool. Stannis and Renly are one thing, and Eddard Stark is quite another. Robert will listen to Stark. Damn them both. I should have insisted that he name you, but I was certain Stark would refuse him."

Eddard will listen to Ned, but not Stannis or Renly.

So Stannis was preparing, ensuring that he would have forces of his own to go up against Cersei and House Lannister. A conflict was coming, regardless of whether he told Robert before Robert's death, both in the case that Robert would believe him, and in the scenario where Robert would not believe him, as well as in the scenario where Cersei manages to kill Robert before Robert can be informed of the parentage of his children. 

His father frowned. "I have felt from the beginning that Stannis was a greater danger than all the others combined. Yet he does nothing. Oh, Varys hears his whispers. Stannis is building ships, Stannis is hiring sellswords, Stannis is bringing a shadowbinder from Asshai. What does it mean? Is any of it true?" He gave an irritated shrug.

And by the time Robert has died, Stannis still does not have enough

Here was the heart of his lord’s weakness; for Dragonstone, old and strong though it was, commanded the allegiance of only a handful of lesser lords, whose stony island holdings were too thinly peopled to yield up the men that Stannis needed. Even with the sellswords he had brought across the narrow sea from the Free Cities of Myr and Lys, the host camped outside his walls was far too small to bring down the power of House Lannister.

 

However, there's an additional reason as to why Stannis left KL for Dragonstone, I think, considering that Stannis didn't leave immediately after Jon Arryn's death, but only after Robert had left for Winterfell.

"Lord Stannis took himself to Dragonstone not long after the king went north,"

and

And while Robert had been riding north to Winterfell, Stannis had removed himself to Dragonstone, the Targaryen island fastness he had conquered in his brother's name. 

I think he was angry and hurt.

“Why should I avenge Eddard Stark? The man was nothing to me. Oh, Robert loved him, to be sure. Loved him as a brother, how often did I hear that? I was his brother, not Ned Stark, but you would never have known it by the way he treated me. I held Storm’s End for him, watching good men starve while Mace Tyrell and Paxter Redwyne feasted within sight of my walls. Did Robert thank me? No. He thanked Stark, for lifting the siege when we were down to rats and radishes. I built a fleet at Robert’s command, took Dragonstone in his name. Did he take my hand and say, Well done, brother, whatever should I do without you? No, he blamed me for letting Willem Darry steal away Viserys and the babe, as if I could have stopped it. I sat on his council for fifteen years, helping Jon Arryn rule his realm while Robert drank and whored, but when Jon died, did my brother name me his Hand? No, he went galloping off to his dear friend Ned Stark, and offered him the honor. And small good it did either of them. “

After all that Stannis has done for Robert, those years of service without any gratitude, Robert chose the man he loved like a brother over his actual brother once again.

[Lost Melnibonean]

35 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Stannis believed that Cersei was responsible for Jon Arryn's death. An understandable conclusion from him, although it was incorrect. So believing that his life was at risk for knowing the secret Jon Arryn had known as well, he returned to the place where he was safest: Dragonstone. Staying and informing Robert was not an option; He knew that Robert wouldn't believe him, that's why he went to Arryn in the first place.

“Lord Stannis,” she asked, “if you knew the queen to be guilty of such monstrous crimes, why did you keep silent? “
“I did not keep silent,” Stannis declared. “I brought my suspicions to Jon Arryn.”
“Rather than your own brother?”
“My brother’s regard for me was never more than dutiful,” said Stannis. “From me, such accusations would have seemed peevish and selfserving, a means of placing myself first in the line of succession. I believed Robert would be more disposed to listen if the charges came from Lord Arryn, whom he loved.”

And I can't say that he was wrong to think so.

"Don't you see the danger this puts us in?" the woman said. "Robert loves the man like a brother."

"Robert can barely stomach his brothers. Not that I blame him. Stannis would be enough to give anyone indigestion."

"Don't play the fool. Stannis and Renly are one thing, and Eddard Stark is quite another. Robert will listen to Stark. Damn them both. I should have insisted that he name you, but I was certain Stark would refuse him."

Eddard will listen to Ned, but not Stannis or Renly.

So Stannis was preparing, ensuring that he would have forces of his own to go up against Cersei and House Lannister. A conflict was coming, regardless of whether he told Robert before Robert's death, both in the case that Robert would believe him, and in the scenario where Robert would not believe him, as well as in the scenario where Cersei manages to kill Robert before Robert can be informed of the parentage of his children. 

His father frowned. "I have felt from the beginning that Stannis was a greater danger than all the others combined. Yet he does nothing. Oh, Varys hears his whispers. Stannis is building ships, Stannis is hiring sellswords, Stannis is bringing a shadowbinder from Asshai. What does it mean? Is any of it true?" He gave an irritated shrug.

And by the time Robert has died, Stannis still does not have enough

Here was the heart of his lord’s weakness; for Dragonstone, old and strong though it was, commanded the allegiance of only a handful of lesser lords, whose stony island holdings were too thinly peopled to yield up the men that Stannis needed. Even with the sellswords he had brought across the narrow sea from the Free Cities of Myr and Lys, the host camped outside his walls was far too small to bring down the power of House Lannister.

 

However, there's an additional reason as to why Stannis left KL for Dragonstone, I think, considering that Stannis didn't leave immediately after Jon Arryn's death, but only after Robert had left for Winterfell.

"Lord Stannis took himself to Dragonstone not long after the king went north,"

and

And while Robert had been riding north to Winterfell, Stannis had removed himself to Dragonstone, the Targaryen island fastness he had conquered in his brother's name. 

I think he was angry and hurt.

“Why should I avenge Eddard Stark? The man was nothing to me. Oh, Robert loved him, to be sure. Loved him as a brother, how often did I hear that? I was his brother, not Ned Stark, but you would never have known it by the way he treated me. I held Storm’s End for him, watching good men starve while Mace Tyrell and Paxter Redwyne feasted within sight of my walls. Did Robert thank me? No. He thanked Stark, for lifting the siege when we were down to rats and radishes. I built a fleet at Robert’s command, took Dragonstone in his name. Did he take my hand and say, Well done, brother, whatever should I do without you? No, he blamed me for letting Willem Darry steal away Viserys and the babe, as if I could have stopped it. I sat on his council for fifteen years, helping Jon Arryn rule his realm while Robert drank and whored, but when Jon died, did my brother name me his Hand? No, he went galloping off to his dear friend Ned Stark, and offered him the honor. And small good it did either of them. “

After all that Stannis has done for Robert, those years of service without any gratitude, Robert chose the man he loved like a brother over his actual brother once again.

This. ... Or maybe Stannis wanted to rekindle his romance with Selyse. 

[Maxxine]

6 hours ago, Dolorous22 said:

Robert had little to no love for Stannis. And we see in the Riverlands, when Ned is forced to put Lady to rest - that Robert would yield to his Lannister benefactors. Stannis isn't a coward. The investigation died with Jon Arryn leaving Stannis on a council with,

LittleFinger - nobody can trust this guy.
Pycell - Lannister dog, through and through.
Varys - A man so informed he already knew and already chose to keep the incest a secret.

The only time I've seen him called a coward is by readers who want to write him off altogether. Imagine if Ned successfully escaped KL with his daughters. I don't think people would be calling him a coward. Instead, Ned chose to trust one or more of the above and paid the price. Brave to the point of foolishness. 

Everyone mentioned above have either died or fled. None remain in KL. 

Stannis makes a poor politician. Cold, indifferent and unlikable. Worse than our beloved Ned. Stannis would only ever win by conquest. So is it a surprise he returned to Dragonstone to consolidate his power? I don't think so. 

I'll be honest I don't like Stannis and I can call him a lot of things but I don't think he's a coward. I just think this could've possibly been a cowardly decision. The same way an intelligent person can make a stupid decision a brave person can make a cowardly decision. And I think that's where I'm falling on this decision with Stannis.

From the way things are when Jon dies it does seems like it was a cowardly. I know my brother is in danger. I know his children are not his. But bc I'm afraid for my life I'm not going to do anything about and I'm going to run to Dragonstone. I recognize the issue of Robert wouldn't believe him, but it's common knowledge that Ned doesn't like Lannisters and he has a temperament similar to Jon Arryn so why not try him. Then Ned tells Robert and you would have basically everyone against the Lannisters and the west. 

It self-preservation decision definitely but that doesn't mean it wasn't cowardly if that his intent truly was saving himself bc he had options. And just to be clear I'm not saying it was a cowardly act  bc he ran. It's the cowardly act bc of the full context of the situation.

[khal drogon]

There are too many conflicts here and we can't assume Stannis intentions without knowing his POV. So it is hard to decide what is in character or out of character for him. But we know he is not afraid of the Lannisters which is for sure. Also we know he bore no love for Robert and we know his sense of duty is not as rigid as him or his fandom claim and it is flexible. This makes me to believe in the second option. He took Robert making Ned his hand too seriously which led to him already starting to prepare for the succession war. I believe this because the quickness of him staking his claim after Robert's death which even surprised the Starks doesn't match the speed he showed before. This Stannis who is always for the right with strong sense of duty is an image created for him and it does not represent the true Stannis. The true Stannis is an egotist who would remember the slights and insults he faced and let it influence his decisions. His sense of duty twists and turns according to his wish. Also by nature he is not the one who would seek allies. His sense of entitlement is so much that he never saw anyone as his equals which again might be a reason why he couldn't seek Ned's help. The level of self entitlement he shows is an indicator that he cared less about Robert than he should have as a brother and a subject. So I feel the second option is not entirely out of character for him.