Superman the Animated Series

[Centrist Simon Steele]

This show is free on Amazon Prime right now (all those old animated series' from the WB in the 90s are), so I took a chance to watch it, since I didn't back when it came out. It was pretty good, and it showed some of the potential in a good Superman presentation. I mean, I know we've all beat Zack Snyder's version into the ground, but this animated series really got me to thinking about how you could do Superman in the modern day without betraying his character.

You don't betray his character--he remains the boyscout, and it's the world around him that's different. It may be that Snyder wanted to do this, but it never comes across. You need the Clark/Superman, wanting to always do good, dropping escaped criminals back in jail, on the side of law enforcement, representing America even if he doesn't. His midwest values are always on display. A lot of, "I'm just doing the best I can and helping those who need help."

Consider all of that in today's climate. First off--many Americans feel incarcerations is horribly problematic, and to have a super-powered being who can't see past his limited moral scope and continually reinforces what might be one of the worst criminal justice systems in the civilized world--in their view. Imagine the liberal clash against Superman's old fashioned ideals. He doesn't have to be presented in a negative light, just alien to the world around him. As I write this, a tendency to align him as a conservative vs. liberal feels like it's bubbling up, but he should exist outside those ideologies. Both sides have a reason to distrust/be cynical of him. But he continues to plug away with his good attitude.

Of course, some of Snyder's themes cross over here, but it's much more in line with the character we know--AND there would be people who loved him too. You have to have heroics in a Superman film.

I don't know, it just seems so obvious to me. A goody-two shoes with ultimate power--imagine how he'd be treated across social media. He'd be lambasted as a fake, as hiding something, as hatching a master plan. Alex Jones would go nuts. Superman doesn't fit in this world--but it'd be interesting to see a Christopher Reeves Superman trying to fit in with his constant good attitude. Does he break? Does he stay strong? How do his enemies use this cynicism again him?

Ugh, I feel like any competent writer/director duo who did their homework could have figured this out, SNYDER. If you're around.

[red snow]

One of the best origins and I loved how they tied Brainiac into it. The movies would be relatively safe in copying that as a starter movie.

I also liked the villain roster and recall the introduction of Lobo as quite fun. The show is a good example of how an almost unstoppable hero who is thoroughly good can work

[drawkcabi]

7 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

You don't betray his character--he remains the boyscout, and it's the world around him that's different.

 

I agree with everything you said, especially that part. I've said it myself more than once. Another thing I think the animated series did right is they didn't make everything easy for Superman. I like Superman with all his traditional powers that were gradually added in his early to mid comic book years, super strength, flying, heat vision, x-ray vision, cold breath, super hearing, super speed. But I also like it when he's toned down a bit in how much he can do with all those powers. Not all the way down, but like when he struggled mightily to save the jetliner in the first episode of the animated series. Superman shouldn't be able to blow out a star like he's blowing out a candle.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

6 hours ago, red snow said:

One of the best origins and I loved how they tied Brainiac into it. The movies would be relatively safe in copying that as a starter movie.

I also liked the villain roster and recall the introduction of Lobo as quite fun. The show is a good example of how an almost unstoppable hero who is thoroughly good can work

 

I'm not as familiar with the comic origins--I read Superman when I was a kid when the Death of Superman, Reign of the Supermen, and the Mongul storyline took place. Then they turned him into electric Superman and I stopped. So I was never sure of Braniac or his origins--I just knew he seemed  cool. I loved him in the cartoon.

Lobo could be a great D.C. character in general--if they do him right.

3 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

I agree with everything you said, especially that part. I've said it myself more than once. Another thing I think the animated series did right is they didn't make everything easy for Superman. I like Superman with all his traditional powers that were gradually added in his early to mid comic book years, super strength, flying, heat vision, x-ray vision, cold breath, super hearing, super speed. But I also like it when he's toned down a bit in how much he can do with all those powers. Not all the way down, but like when he struggled mightily to save the jetliner in the first episode of the animated series. Superman shouldn't be able to blow out a star like he's blowing out a candle.

 

I also agree--he didn't feel unstoppable. A lot of times he felt overpowered by those attacking him. I think the first battle with Metallo was kind of a "well, luckily I lost him" kind of deal. 

[red snow]

2 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

I'm not as familiar with the comic origins--I read Superman when I was a kid when the Death of Superman, Reign of the Supermen, and the Mongul storyline took place. Then they turned him into electric Superman and I stopped. So I was never sure of Braniac or his origins--I just knew he seemed  cool. I loved him in the cartoon.

Lobo could be a great D.C. character in general--if they do him right.

I also agree--he didn't feel unstoppable. A lot of times he felt overpowered by those attacking him. I think the first battle with Metallo was kind of a "well, luckily I lost him" kind of deal. 

I've always found it a weak excuse to claim the stories are difficult to write when he's so powerful. It's no different from"the Flash" or "Batman" (whose inexplicably unstoppable/overpowered when he shouldn't be).

Brainiac is cool and tying him into Kryton's origin was a great idea IMO as it raises that conflict of "he's Superman's closest connection to his cultural history". The comics have the bottle city of Kandor element but i feel the cartoon put Brainiac on a level with Luthor as premier villain.

[Knight of Ashes]

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 8:19 AM, red snow said:

I've always found it a weak excuse to claim the stories are difficult to write when he's so powerful. It's no different from"the Flash" or "Batman" (whose inexplicably unstoppable/overpowered when he shouldn't be).

 

Some people have come to think beating Superman is something Batsy can do on a regular basis. Um, no, it just makes for a more interesting read than the 99.9999999999999% of the time that Supes could but would be dull to watch. And I think it's not unreasonable to argue that Supes didn't want to turn Batsy in in Dark Knight Returns.

Also,  Bruce is the "one man that beat (Clark)"? Hasn't Clark been beaten in varying degrees before Bruce did by various enemies? And didn't he almost always get back up? If a nuclear missile or a Doomsday couldn't bring Supes down permanently, then neither could a rich old man with issues and his one-shot synthetic kryptonite. 

But hey, it made for a great read. It may have been the start of Batman's elevation to Bat-God and pushed DC in the direction that they eventually blamed Watchmen for.

Eta:

Speaking of people who depict Batman as unstoppable, Grant Morrison was interested in writing Flash's comic series. I dunno whether you guys think that's a good idea but I would have been interested.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, Knight of Ashes said:

Some people have come to think beating Superman is something Batsy can do on a regular basis. Um, no, it just makes for a more interesting read than the 99.9999999999999% of the time that Supes could but would be dull to watch. And I think it's not unreasonable to argue that Supes didn't want to turn Batsy in in Dark Knight Returns.

Also,  Bruce is the "one man that beat (Clark)"? Hasn't Clark been beaten in varying degrees before Bruce did by various enemies? And didn't he almost always get back up? If a nuclear missile or a Doomsday couldn't bring Supes down permanently, then neither could a rich old man with issues and his one-shot synthetic kryptonite. 

But hey, it made for a great read. It may have been the start of Batman's elevation to Bat-God and pushed DC in the direction that they eventually blamed Watchmen for.

Eta:

Speaking of people who depict Batman as unstoppable, Grant Morrison was interested in writing Flash's comic series. I dunno whether you guys think that's a good idea but I would have been interested.

I was talking more about how Batman can take on seriously powerful villains and win all the time. It's to be expected as the comic wouldn't last long otherwise but my point was more how people think Superman is dull because he's too powerful.

I think BvS and most of the comic encounters between the two highlights how Batman puts a hell of a lot of planning into these fights. It's more lame when hesucker punchesSupes with Kryptonite knuckle dusters.

CW did a great job using their batman (arrow) in afight with the flash where he wiped the floor with the flash through preparation and choosing the battlefield. I like this approach to regular humans vs superpowered people.

Grant Morrison did have a run (sorry) on Flash in the 90s with Mark Millar as scripter (back when they got along and Millar wasn't a star). I only caught bits of it but it was good. Given Morrison's multiversity and how the Flash/speed force is the binding essence of DCs comics worlds - I'd definitely try out a new Flash title by him.

I actually need to rewatch Superman TAS. I only managed season 1 and then left the DVDs at my brothers after a move. Then do the Justice League - which I completely missed. I did enjoy Justice unlimited so should plug the gap.

[DunderMifflin]

3 minutes ago, red snow said:

I was talking more about how Batman can take on seriously powerful villains and win all the time. It's to be expected as the comic wouldn't last long otherwise but my point was more how people think Superman is dull because he's too powerful.

I think BvS and most of the comic encounters between the two highlights how Batman puts a hell of a lot of planning into these fights. It's more lame when hesucker punchesSupes with Kryptonite knuckle dusters.

CW did a great job using their batman (arrow) in afight with the flash where he wiped the floor with the flash through preparation and choosing the battlefield. I like this approach to regular humans vs superpowered people.

Grant Morrison did have a run (sorry) on Flash in the 90s with Mark Millar as scripter (back when they got along and Millar wasn't a star). I only caught bits of it but it was good. Given Morrison's multiversity and how the Flash/speed force is the binding essence of DCs comics worlds - I'd definitely try out a new Flash title by him.

I actually need to rewatch Superman TAS. I only managed season 1 and then left the DVDs at my brothers after a move. Then do the Justice League - which I completely missed. I did enjoy Justice unlimited so should plug the gap.

Count me as one of these people. Never liked the Soups. Never liked Batman either because he works with the police too much, but Batman has THE best villains hands down.

[red snow]

21 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

Count me as one of these people. Never liked the Soups. Never liked Batman either because he works with the police too much, but Batman has THE best villains hands down.

I can see why you feel like that too because most of the writers don't know how to make his battles interesting. It is tricky but TAS is a good example of how it can still be interesting. Although there's no getting around the issue of finding him dull if he's such a nice guy as well. I find that element tricky too especially as making him "edgy/grumpy" as they have with the recent movies doesn't work either.