Lady Blizzardborn

Advanced Crackpottery 4 - Daario Naharis: International Man of Mystery

137 posts in this topic

16 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I wonder if this shares any parallel to what each "teacher" is doing with each main character? For instance, Bloodraven does not give Bran the paste until after Bran does a few things that are considered "advanced", and it is only then when BR says, "It is time... for the next step." (ADWD, Bran III) Maybe the "revelation" has to come when the "you know nothing's" actually learn something??? Just an idea.

 

That's not bad at all, Leech.  Perhaps Daario is waiting for Dany to become a real blood and fire dragon to reveal himself.    Well done and thank you! 

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3 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Thank you, CF. You're always so kind to me. :)

It would be exactly that. The minute he says he's a Blackfyre, her guard will go up and she'll wonder if he's after her throne, and using her to get to Westeros. She's been wondering already whether he's going to betray her. This would just add to it. And interestingly enough, of all the people on Quaithe's list of who not to trust, there was no mention of Daario. Granted, she was talking mostly about people who were heading toward Dany, and Daario was already there, but still...

There is a possibility that both dragons could unite, but as with the last Daenerys who loved a Blackfyre it may come down to what's best for the kingdom rather than what she wants. Or if Daario is killed (by the Yunkai, or anyone else) she'll have to move on.

Aegon would be either the real deal, or another son of Rhaegar's if he was knocking up multiple women in hopes of getting that third dragon head, or perhaps just a regular kid with Valyrian looks who has been given the chance to prove once and for all whether blood matters at all when it comes to being a king. It's too early to tell. I suppose he could be of the Brightflame line but I really think if there's a Brightflame in the mix it's Varys. 

Whatever happened to Daemon, he's dead by now...unless he's stuck in a tree like Bloodraven. But I think he'd need First Men blood for that to work. 

Not kind, Lady, just call it like it is.   

I have to run with this last bit as a testament to the cracked pottery here.   IIRC, Daemon disappeared with his suspected lover on her dragon.  What says he didn't have more little dragons who begat more little dragons?   Why settle for rebellious cousins when you can have the black sheep (stealer) of the main line?   

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5 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Not kind, Lady, just call it like it is.   

I have to run with this last bit as a testament to the cracked pottery here.   IIRC, Daemon disappeared with his suspected lover on her dragon.  What says he didn't have more little dragons who begat more little dragons?   Why settle for rebellious cousins when you can have the black sheep (stealer) of the main line?   

It's suggested that he might have. As far as anyone knows he died in the God's Eye...only his body wasn't found. 

I like the way you think.

GRRM may just leave that particular mystery unsolved. He's not going to wrap everything up neatly for us, and I think it's mostly the historical tidbits that it's safe for him to leave unanswered. Too many main series mysteries without solutions and the fans will want to feed him to a dragon. LOL

On the other hand, there is nothing keeping us from speculating that any of the characters are Nettles and Daemon descendants (what if she was pregnant when she disappeared?). Even if Daemon didn't survive, Nettles probably did (fire witch in the Vale and all that). How about Timmet, son of Timmet. There's a bold and likely lad. ;) Just took a look at the wiki. We may have another crackpot on our hands here. 

Edited by Lady Blizzardborn

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2 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

It's suggested that he might have. As far as anyone knows he died in the God's Eye...only his body wasn't found. 

I like the way you think.

GRRM may just leave that particular mystery unsolved. He's not going to wrap everything up neatly for us, and I think it's mostly the historical tidbits that it's safe for him to leave unanswered. Too many main series mysteries without solutions and the fans will want to feed him to a dragon. LOL

On the other hand, there is nothing keeping us from speculating that any of the characters are Nettles and Daemon descendants (what if she was pregnant when she disappeared?). Even if Daemon didn't survive, Nettles probably did (fire witch in the Vale and all that). How about Timmet, son of Timmet. There's a bold and likely lad. ;) Just took a look at the wiki. We may have another crackpot on our hands here. 

Ah, very nice.   Thanks for indulging my silliness.   You're the lady with the excellent quotes here--may I direct your attention to your Daemon comparisons for a moment?  You laid the list right out there.   Do you see any other character who could fit your quote?  I've looked for them and never come close.  You are nearly word for word between Daemon and Daario.   

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Just now, Curled Finger said:

Ah, very nice.   Thanks for indulging my silliness.   You're the lady with the excellent quotes here--may I direct your attention to your Daemon comparisons for a moment?  You laid the list right out there.   Do you see any other character who could fit your quote?  I've looked for them and never come close.  You are nearly word for word between Daemon and Daario.   

Any time. I love silliness.

Not right off the top of my head, no. 

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On 2/14/2017 at 0:53 PM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Snip

This is by far the best Dario theory on the whole forum. 

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Just now, Dorian Martell's son said:

This is by far the best Dario theory on the whole forum. 

Thank you, kind ser.

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3 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Any time. I love silliness.

Not right off the top of my head, no. 

Well then, since we don't actually know either way about Daemon's fate, I'm going with my version.  There have been way too many Targs lost to history in Westeros and I think it's high time we identified them.   Or at least their descendants.   Besides, I really got a kick out of typing "begat more dragons".   Who have you got in mind to expose next?   

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6 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Well then, since we don't actually know either way about Daemon's fate, I'm going with my version.  There have been way too many Targs lost to history in Westeros and I think it's high time we identified them.   Or at least their descendants.   Besides, I really got a kick out of typing "begat more dragons".   Who have you got in mind to expose next?   

You mean other than Timmet? I've got several theories in the works, but most aren't about hidden heritage. I think I'm going to abandon Brown Ben Plumm as a Blackfyre. There's just nowhere near as much on him as there is on Daario. Really after this thread, it would be pretty silly anyway.

Mostly I have what I call rows of tiny pots with cracks. Some will grow up to be theories, and some will not. Too soon to tell which will grow. 

ETA: if you mean Targs in particular there's the Mance theory, and it's possible (if unlikely) that the Tattered Prince could maybe be a Targ. Also there's a girl in a TWOW spoiler chapter who has dragon dreams. Probably a descendant of Aegon IV...we'll never identify all of his descendants.

Edited by Lady Blizzardborn

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Can we officially call it the One Daario Theory to Rule Them All yet?

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11 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Doran wanted Arianne to become queen by marrying Viserys and making him king. That has nothing to do with Dornish law.

Mellario as a Blackfyre descendant is a cool idea though. I wonder if she knew about the marriage pact? 

There's more to one way to reach the throne.  Marrying a Targaryen would only strengthen her legal claim.  

I think Melario knew.  In fact, I think that's one reason that she was so upset about her children being sent away.  Quentyn being fostered at Yronwood (BF supporters) and Arianne in Tyrosh were part of that plot to put their child(ren) on the throne.  Melario, knowing that each BF Rebellion ended in death and failure, wanted none of it. 

Yes, she didn't want them to leave home.  But if that was the only reason, why did she go back to Norvos, leaving Arianne and Trystane behind?  

(By the way, the Greek stem Mel- means black.)

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4 hours ago, Isobel Harper said:

There's more to one way to reach the throne.  Marrying a Targaryen would only strengthen her legal claim.  

I think Melario knew.  In fact, I think that's one reason that she was so upset about her children being sent away.  Quentyn being fostered at Yronwood (BF supporters) and Arianne in Tyrosh were part of that plot to put their child(ren) on the throne.  Melario, knowing that each BF Rebellion ended in death and failure, wanted none of it. 

Yes, she didn't want them to leave home.  But if that was the only reason, why did she go back to Norvos, leaving Arianne and Trystane behind?  

(By the way, the Greek stem Mel- means black.)

The Blackfyre angle however is definitely growing on me. You should do a thread about this. I don't recall any text indicating that Doran wanted Arianne to be queen in her own right, but I've certainly forgotten plenty of things.

It just hit me that Mellario rhymes with Daario. :D

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15 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I would look into that, but if I type Daenerys and dragon into A Search of Ice and Fire, I'm going to get every single Daenerys chapter

I understand.  Might as well re-read the series!  Want me to put it up in Small Questions?  They know everything!

15 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Isn't it Salladhor Saan who makes a crack about the Westerosi thinking their sigils actually make them animals? Seems like the sigil and the person being the same is a very Westerosi concept, yet a Tyroshi sellsword is using that concept by referring to Daenerys as a dragon.

Right!  I forgot about that quip. 

12 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

You've got me, hook line and sinker.   So let me ask why Daario hasn't said anything directly to Dany?  Is it the taint of Blackfyre history?  Is there a possibility both dragons could unite?  What do we make of Aegon?  I suppose that enough time has passed so that there are several branches on the Targaryen and Blackfyre trees.   After all, weren't we left wondering exactly what became of Prince Daemon?   

It could also be similar to why Barristan was White Beard.  He wanted to get to know her for himself before he threw in with her and her cause. 

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"Dragon" is in the main series 940 times!  I went through them all, ya know, for fun.  :)  Daario calls her a dragon to her face.  He also calls her "Dragan Queen".  She asks Barristan, "am I a Harpy or a Dragon?" and he replies, "Dragon".  Other than that it's only...

IIyiro (another possible Blackfyre) refers to her as the dragon queen and then Tyrion starts doing the same.  Followed by fAegon et al, Euron, Victarion, Quent and others they are speaking with.  One of Hizdhar's titles is "Consort to Dragons". 

Two quotes may not lend anything to your theory but struck me as odd...

Quote

Only death can pay for life.

And there came a second crack, loud and sharp as thunder, and the smoke stirred and whirled around her and the pyre shifted, the logs exploding as the fire touched their secret hearts. She heard the screams of frightened horses, and the voices of the Dothraki raised in shouts of fear and terror, and Ser Jorah calling her name and cursing. No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don't you see? Don't you SEE? With a belch of flame and smoke that reached thirty feet into the sky, the pyre collapsed and came down around her. Unafraid, Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children.

The third crack was as loud and sharp as the breaking of the world. – AGoT, Daenerys X

Quote

Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . . – ACoK, Daenerys IV

Bride of dragons?  Bride of fire?  So the groom is a Targ. 

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Quote

"Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon. When Maelys the Monstrous died upon the Stepstones, it was the end of the male line of House Blackfyre." The cheesemonger smiled through his forked beard. "And Daenerys will give the exiles what Bittersteel and the Blackfyres never could. She will take them home."

With fire and sword. It was the kind of homecoming that Tyrion wished for as well. "Ten thousand swords makes for a princely gift, I grant you. Her Grace should be most pleased." – ADwD, Tyrion II

We always remember the black or red part but I forgot about the bolded.  Dany & Blackfyres sitting in Meereen!  K-I-S-S-I-N-G!

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LB That was very interesting! Crackpottery of the highest order. Got to tell you when I read the quote about the crossbow bolt wound and Daarios reply I freaked out! GRRM is building a red herring or this crackpot is spot on. No way that is coincidental. Thanks for the good read.

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@Lady BlizzardbornThanks for tagging me.. I haven't had time to read all the way through, but I've skimmed .. and I'm loving it. I had done some of the same research, myself.. but I can see you've gone much farther. I started out being unsure if it was a random Valeryan, or Blackfyre or Brightflame connection I was sensing about Daario, but as I progressed , Blackfyre definitely took over.

I think you have half the puzzle here, but I think there's another half (completely compatible, to my mind), which I ought to have up in a couple of days.. I had two parts of the hypothesis up in 2015.. then delayed to see what would happen with the board changes, then - rabbit hole.

I have to retrieve my original OP from the archive and add the mountain of other stuff from my notes and quotes.. (OMG)

I imagine you're as amazed as I have been by the absolute reams that can be connected to Daario, about whom it first appears we're told so little.:D

I'll link to this thread in mine, if that's OK.

And I can't wait to have the chance to go back and read through all of this in detail.

Edited by bemused

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On 2/23/2017 at 0:08 PM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I'm liking this theory more and more!

Thanks Vaedys. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

On 2/23/2017 at 2:12 PM, DarkSister1001 said:

"Dragon" is in the main series 940 times!  I went through them all, ya know, for fun.  :)  Daario calls her a dragon to her face.  He also calls her "Dragan Queen".  She asks Barristan, "am I a Harpy or a Dragon?" and he replies, "Dragon".  Other than that it's only...

IIyiro (another possible Blackfyre) refers to her as the dragon queen and then Tyrion starts doing the same.  Followed by fAegon et al, Euron, Victarion, Quent and others they are speaking with.  One of Hizdhar's titles is "Consort to Dragons". 

Two quotes may not lend anything to your theory but struck me as odd...

Bride of dragons?  Bride of fire?  So the groom is a Targ. 

940? See, this is why I didn't go looking. :D So really only Daario refers to her as "a dragon" without anything else added or being asked. Interesting. Thank you for going to all that trouble!

If only I didn't have the sneaking suspicion that this means Jon. But you're right that it's odd she thought of herself as "bride of dragons" when she had only been married to Drogo. And that's dragons. Plural. As in more than one. Could be a subtle clue, or just included to keep with the rhythm GRRM had going with the plural dragons. If Hizdhar can be consort to plural dragons, I have to lean toward it just being turn of phrase rather than having some deeper meaning.

On 2/23/2017 at 3:09 PM, DarkSister1001 said:

We always remember the black or red part but I forgot about the bolded.  Dany & Blackfyres sitting in Meereen!  K-I-S-S-I-N-G!

:lol:

4 hours ago, jthurman14 said:

LB That was very interesting! Crackpottery of the highest order. Got to tell you when I read the quote about the crossbow bolt wound and Daarios reply I freaked out! GRRM is building a red herring or this crackpot is spot on. No way that is coincidental. Thanks for the good read.

Thank you, jthurman14! The crossbow bolt was what got me thinking it could be more than just a crackpot too. But I know The George likes his herrings red as well. Glad you liked the theory.

2 hours ago, bemused said:

@Lady BlizzardbornThanks for tagging me.. I haven't had time to read all the way through, but I've skimmed .. and I'm loving it. I had done some of the same research, myself.. but I can see you've gone much farther. I started out being unsure if it was a random Valeryan, or Blackfyre or Brightflame connection I was sensing about Daario, but as I progressed , Blackfyre definitely took over.

I think you have half the puzzle here, but I think there's another half (completely compatible, to my mind), which I ought to have up in a couple of days.. I had two parts of the hypothesis up in 2015.. then delayed to see what would happen with the board changes, then - rabbit hole.

I have to retrieve my original OP from the archive and add the mountain of other stuff from my notes and quotes.. (OMG)

I imagine you're as amazed as I have been by the absolute reams that can be connected to Daario, about whom it first appears we're told so little.:D

I'll link to this thread in mine, if that's OK.

And I can't wait to have the chance to go back and read through all of this in detail.

By all means. And please tag me when you get it posted, if you'd be so kind. I'm very much looking forward to the other half. :)

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On 2/23/2017 at 10:25 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

The Blackfyre angle however is definitely growing on me. You should do a thread about this. I don't recall any text indicating that Doran wanted Arianne to be queen in her own right, but I've certainly forgotten plenty of things.

It just hit me that Mellario rhymes with Daario. :D

I plan to!  Don't know when I'll have time though.  Creating a thread takes much more time and energy (which I rarely have of either) than just reply to comments.  When I do create a thread on the topic of Melario being a Blackfyre, I'll be sure to reference it here.

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