Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Again, I don't know where to put this. Quote "You were never the boy you were," Robert grumbled. "More's the pity. And yet there was that one time … what was her name, that common girl of yours? Becca? No, she was one of mine, gods love her, black hair and these sweet big eyes, you could drown in them. Yours was … Aleena? No. You told me once. Was it Merryl? You know the one I mean, your bastard's mother?" "Her name was Wylla," Ned replied with cool courtesy, "and I would sooner not speak of her." "Wylla. Yes." The king grinned. "She must have been a rare wench if she could make Lord Eddard Stark forget his honor, even for an hour. You never told me what she looked like …" Ned's mouth tightened in anger. "Nor will I. Leave it be, Robert, for the love you say you bear me. I dishonored myself and I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men." "Gods have mercy, you scarcely knew Catelyn." "I had taken her to wife. She was carrying my child." -- Eddard II, A Game of Thrones Wait, what? Taken who to wife? Who's she? This could be read two different ways: 1. I knew Catelyn well enough, after all, we were married and she was pregnant with my son 2. "Gods have mercy, you scarcely knew Catelyn, it's not that big a deal to cheat on someone you know." "But I didn't just cheat on her, I married her when "Wylla", my wife, was already pregnant with my son Just to be clear, if there's a hint being dropped here, it's not from Ned to Robert, but from GRRM to the reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Nah. That's where all the zillion silly tenses in the English language get to earn their money. "I had taken her to wife" - past perfect, something that happened before the principal action. "She was carrying my child" - past continuous, something taking place in background, while... "I dishonored myself and I dishonored Catelyn" - past simple, the foreground. All in all, what Ned is saying here is, I married Cat, and then dishonored myself (with the other one) while Cat was carrying my child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 56 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: All in all, what Ned is saying here is, I married Cat, and then dishonored myself (with the other one) while Cat was carrying my child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Dear god we need another book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said: Dear god we need another book Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Here's why there's no question which woman he married: Quote "...you scarcely knew Catelyn.""I had taken her to wife." Robert is brushing off Ned's comment about dishonoring Catelyn based on the fact that Ned barely knew Catelyn when Jon was conceived. Ned replies with absolute proof that Robert is a doofus. He had married and impregnated Catelyn. Fathering, or allowing everyone to think he fathered, a child with another woman after marrying Catelyn is what he is talking about. If Robert had mentioned Wylla after mentioning Catelyn, then a case could possibly be made for another interpretation. I see what you meant on that other thread about seeing things that aren't there. I think we all do that from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 5 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said: Again, I don't know where to put this. -- Eddard II, A Game of Thrones Wait, what? Taken who to wife? Who's she? This could be read two different ways: 1. I knew Catelyn well enough, after all, we were married and she was pregnant with my son 2. "Gods have mercy, you scarcely knew Catelyn, it's not that big a deal to cheat on someone you know." "But I didn't just cheat on her, I married her when "Wylla", my wife, was already pregnant with my son Just to be clear, if there's a hint being dropped here, it's not from Ned to Robert, but from GRRM to the reader. Well, there's a theory out there that Ned married this "Wylla" (Ashara Dayne), who was pregnant with his child, making Ned's marriage to Catelyn invalid. Don't think I believe it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Isobel Harper said: Well, there's a theory out there that Ned married this "Wylla" (Ashara Dayne), who was pregnant with his child, making Ned's marriage to Catelyn invalid. Don't think I believe it though. Well depends if he married her under First Men traditions then married Cat under Faith of the Seven to safe Robert and the Rebellion. Not sure how either religion would regard it, probably not well though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCK Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 10 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: Dear god we need another book Book Of Swords coming this fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, PCK said: Book Of Swords coming this fall. I meant WoW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, PCK said: Book Of Swords coming this fall. Book of Meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 6 hours ago, Isobel Harper said: Well, there's a theory out there that Ned married this "Wylla" (Ashara Dayne), who was pregnant with his child, making Ned's marriage to Catelyn invalid. Don't think I believe it though. Yeah, that's what I had in mind. Dunno if it's true or not but if you squint then this supports it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 @Illyrio Mo'Parties I think that last poisoned pie thread nonsense has snapped your mind, you feelin' alright lately man?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCK Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 9 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said: Book of Meh Right? I mean it's cool and all he fleshes out the Targaryen history. But, why couldn't this wait until after the main series is done? These histories tell rather than show. If we had to get anything else other than Winds, I'd prefer more D&E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 12 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said: @Illyrio Mo'Parties I think that last poisoned pie thread nonsense has snapped your mind, you feelin' alright lately man?. Why does everybody keep syaing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, Illyrio Mo'Parties said: Why does everybody keep syaing that A lot of other people saying that too? Lol, were all worried about you man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Haha, it's like you can't even talk a load of shit anymore without people thinking you're talking a load of shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hammer of Justice Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Ashara Dayne is actually using a glamour to pass as Catelyn Tully only to bang Ned....or she is a faceless men and killed the real Cat a long time ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said: Haha, it's like you can't even talk a load of shit anymore without people thinking you're talking a load of shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Xyn Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 17 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said: Yeah, that's what I had in mind. Dunno if it's true or not but if you squint then this supports it The key phrase to me is "in the sight of gods and men". One interpretation of this phrase would be his wedding to Catelyn was a dishonor to her, presumably because he was married to someone else already, most likely secretly in front of a heart tree. I would prefer this to the clichéd and predictable R+L=J, as even Paris has been quoted as saying something along the lines of "Do you really think George would do something that obvious?", but it seems thin. In a nutshell I think one of the biggest problems with our theorizing isn't that we are overthinking things based on the text, but that we are overthinking things in so far as GRRM being that clever. With the size, scope, and complexity of ASOIAF it's safe to say that a lot of these "hints" are likely author error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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