Luddagain Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 While I know that twisting names to strange meanings is often a bit crazy there are SOME names which clearly do have significance and I do not think GRRM has used them be chance. Baelor is one such name - it keeps appearing Baelor the Blessed Bael the bard Abel (Mance) Peter Baelish Balon Now this IS significant because in Irish myth this is a very big deal. Bael was a very scary god who turned you to stone with his angry eye. We have the word baleful stare or glance, to mean a very angry look. Balor is seen as the god of drought and blight. He interprets the tale of Balor as follows: The Drought God (Balor) seizes the cow of fruitfulness (Glas Gaibhnenn) and shuts her in his prison. The Sun God (Cian) rescues the cow with help from the Sea God (Manannán) – water being the natural enemy of drought. The Sun God and a Water Goddess (Ethniu), attempt to produce a son—the Storm God (Lugh)—who will overcome the Drought God. They succeed in spiriting the future Storm God away to the domain of the Sea God, where the Drought God cannot reach him.[2] The Storm God and Drought God at last meet in battle. The Smith God (Gobniu) forges the thunderbolt and the Storm God uses it to unleash the storm and kill drought, at least temporarily.[3] I feel quite sure that GRRM would have known this story, hence I do not think the names are accidental. Baelish locks Sansa away and Baelor locked his sisters away. Bael the Bard stole the Stark girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 There were also a couple of Targs named Baelon, and one named Baela (she was awesome). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBard Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I'm not familiar with Bael but Bealtaine (Brightfire with Beal meaning bright )is also the name of the festival that celebrates Summer's arrival. Its also associated with human sacrifice and lighting huge fires. The Hawthorn tree is known as the Maybush and was considered sacred to the wee folk and even today a lot of people will not cut down a hawthorn tree for fear of bad luck -its not that anyone admits to being afraid of fairies, just generally superstitious about cutting them down. Tree worship, human sacrifice, small people with magical powers, there is lots of stuff from old Irish culture that George has borrowed in these books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemal Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I've been pointing out the similarities between the Valyrians/GeotD with the Tuatha de Dannon and the Deep Ones with the Fomorians for a while as well as Euron as Balor and Jaime as Nuada. The drought instead of storm is a bit of a curve ball, but you are on the right track. I've also tried to link the CotF with the firbolg. Not as sure on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Yozza Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Not bad but there are many characters who have 'Bael' in their names who this doesn't apply to, like Baelor Breakspear and Baelon Targaryen (Viserys I's father) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockwave Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 targaryens: Baelor the Befuddled Baelor Breakspear Baela of Pentos Baelon The Brave other: balon Swann Balon Greyjoy Petyr Baelish Bael the Bard probably forgot some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddagain Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Yes there are many with this name - but I still think it significant. One way out idea I have is that perhaps Baelor WAS Bael the Bard. The time line is about right. Or Bael the bard may in fact be a Targ of some kind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maudisdottir Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Which timeline is that? The one that said "Lord" Stark (i.e. after Aegon's Conquest) or the one that says the Boltons flayed him (which they gave up 1,000 years ago)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddagain Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Well I was thinking about the post Targ time - when he was Lord of Winterfell. There may not be any contradiction, given the likelihood some Boltons are still into flaying, albeit in secret. However Baelor seems an unlikely candidate for Bael, given his hostility to the old gods. Also a closer look at the timeline does not really fit. The reality is that the only possible flayed Lord Stark would be Cregan's father or grandfather or maybe one other between Torren and Cregan. We can assume that Cregan was born about the year 100 since he must have been in his early 30s when he was involved in the Dance with Dragons (he had already been married twice and had many children). there were 5/6 generations to reach Aegon II, and Cregan seems to be just a bit older. So about 5 generations, starting with Torrhen. If Cregan is gen 5, Benjen is gen 3. If his mum was the daughter of the Lord, then she was gen 2 and the Lord who lost the daughter must have been Torrhen. (OK there is room for just one more generation maybe). I suspect Bael the Bard may have been a renegade Stark - Company of the Blue Rose perhaps - ie would not kneel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 22 hours ago, Adam Yozza said: Not bad but there are many characters who have 'Bael' in their names who this doesn't apply to, like Baelor Breakspear and Baelon Targaryen (Viserys I's father) Also, at Balticon GRRM pronounced Balon so that "Bal" rhymed with "pal" (he also pronounced Aeron like Aaron), not like the "bay" in "Baelish". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Yozza Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 28 minutes ago, Luddagain said: Well I was thinking about the post Targ time - when he was Lord of Winterfell. There may not be any contradiction, given the likelihood some Boltons are still into flaying, albeit in secret. However Baelor seems an unlikely candidate for Bael, given his hostility to the old gods. Also a closer look at the timeline does not really fit. The reality is that the only possible flayed Lord Stark would be Cregan's father or grandfather or maybe one other between Torren and Cregan. We can assume that Cregan was born about the year 100 since he must have been in his early 30s when he was involved in the Dance with Dragons (he had already been married twice and had many children). there were 5/6 generations to reach Aegon II, and Cregan seems to be just a bit older. So about 5 generations, starting with Torrhen. If Cregan is gen 5, Benjen is gen 3. If his mum was the daughter of the Lord, then she was gen 2 and the Lord who lost the daughter must have been Torrhen. (OK there is room for just one more generation maybe). I suspect Bael the Bard may have been a renegade Stark - Company of the Blue Rose perhaps - ie would not kneel. This is factually incorrect. Cregan had married only once by the time of the Dance and his only child was the infant Rickon, who later died fighting outside of Sunspear in Daeron I's conquest of Dorne. He married his second wife at the end of the Dance, and his third after the death of Alysanne Blackwood. Therefore it would be more reasonable to assume that he was in his early twenties or perhaps even younger. As to Bael, I'm not entirely sure what I believe in regards to the timeline. On the one hand, Brandon the Daughterless could be either a son or grandson of Torrhen the King-Who-Knelt, and his bastard grandson could be either Cregan's great-grandfather, or grandfather. The timeline can just about fit. On the other hand, it is specifically mentioned that Bael's kid was flayed and his skin worn by one of his bannermen. There hasn't been a Bolton rebellion since before the conquest and while they may still practice flaying despite outward appearance's. The Bolton's are said to have given up flaying 1,000 years prior to Game of Thrones, and I doubt this claim could be made if they flayed and wore the skin of the Lord of Winterfell. There is, of course, the possibility that Bael never existed. The Wildlings say he did, but the records and archives of Winterfell make no mention of him not a kidnapped daughter or a bastard Lord who was later flayed. It's possible that he's a character to the Wildlings like Serwyn of the Mirror Shield or Florian and Jonquil are to the rest of Westeros; fake, but believing in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Xyn Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Another name of significance is Theon. Theon loosely translates to "godly" in Greek. When Aeron Greyjoy says "No godless man may sit the seastone chair," it could be argued he's saying "only Theon may sit the seastone chair." Just subtle foreshadowing from GRRM IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowfood's Daughter Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 You might find this interesting. For me, it is a pretty sure bet GRRM used so Balor lore for at least one Baelor. https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2l0l7m/baelor_the_blessed_theory_spoilers_all/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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