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The Fresh PtwP

Upcoming Battles

17 posts in this topic

So we got:

Battle of Mereen

Battle of Winterfell

Storming of Storm's End

Battle of Rose and Dragon

All incoming in the next book. Who do you think will win? What other battles do you think we will see in TWoW? Discuss.

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Some kind of Riverlands revolt is likely, which will involve the slaughter of some Lannister/Frey troops, no doubt.

 

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28 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Some kind of Riverlands revolt is likely, which will involve the slaughter of some Lannister/Frey troops, no doubt.

 

The Freys are currently already being 'slaughtered' by both the Brotherhood Without Banners (lead by Lady Stoneheart), and of course Nymerya/Arya's wolfpack. It's not a full-on battle, but a slow guerrilla-based warfare, and much more effective for the 2 parties that are attacking.
I can't see who would attach the Riverlands at this point to fight with the Lannister and Frey armies. Jaime has just restored peace in the riverlands, with some clever acting and some mean threats. Even if Jaime is about to receive the Stoneheart treatment (which I doubt, but I;m not sure what will happen next), currently the Riverlands have some sort of truce. The riverlands are at peace, for now. But they need to brace themselves for the biggest and baddest battle of them all, Dragons vs White Walkers.

About the mentioned battles (of which some will not be described in detail in the books, but only be mentioned quickly):

  • Battle of Mereen - Will be won by Dany and her crew, sellsword companies have and/or will switch sides with her when she returns, controlling both the entire Dothraki horde and (at least) 1 dragon. (In the first 3rd of the book)
  • Battle of Winterfell - Still wondering which parties are actually taking part in this. It all depends on who wrote the pink letter and what is the truth here. Whoever will take part in this, the Boltons will eventually lose. (probably spread over multiple chapters, and possibly 2 battles)
  • Storming of Storm's End - Because Storm's End has never been breached, I think this will not be a battle, but it will fall because of some clever trick or scheme. (f)Aegon will have the castle. (In the first 3rd of the book)
  • Battle of Rose and Dragon - I assume you mean Tyrell army vs (f)Aegon. I'm not too sure about this. So far (f)Aegon and JonCOn have had the advantage of fighting on known ground (JonCon's home lands), when they advance after Storm's End, it will become harder for them. However, I do suspect that (f)Aegon will win and advance to Kingslanding. (before 2/3rds of the book)

Other battles that will probably take place:

  • Battle for Oldtown, Euron vs the city. Not sure what will happen here (In the first 3rd of the book)
  • Battle for the Wall part I. Remainders of the NW vs Wildlings vs Queen Selyse and her soldiers. (before 2/3rds of the book)
  • Battle of Kingslanding (Dany + crew vs (f)Aegon + crew vs Cercei and whatever soldiers are left in Kingslanding). (end of TWOW)
  • Battle for the Wall part II. Whoever wins part I against WW, the wall will fail and fall (end of TWOW)

As stated above, I think that, even though I have just mentioned 8 major battles, we will only be seeing a couple of them completely written out in the books, from a POV character. The ones I really hope to read about are: Mereen, Winterfell, Oldtown, Kingslanding and the Wall.

Edited by Ser Walter of AShwood

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Don't forget the Battle/Sack of Oldtown, told from the PPVs of Aeron Greyjoy and Samwell Tarly.

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1 hour ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:
  • Storming of Storm's End - Because Storm's End has never been breached, I think this will not be a battle, but it will fall because of some clever trick or scheme. (f)Aegon will have the castle. (In the first 3rd of the book)

The castle is fallen at the beginning of Winds (check Arianne's chapters). I'm not sure if we'll get a description of the battle. Maybe just some flashbacks. My take is that about half of the GC strength marched against the relatively small Tyrell garrison sieging SE, they put some stolen Baraethon banners on front and the very similar GC banners on the back, making the defenders think that Stannis or someone else from the Stormlands is liberating SE, so they opened the doors to them.

Quote
  • Battle of Rose and Dragon - I assume you mean Tyrell army vs (f)Aegon. I'm not too sure about this. So far (f)Aegon and JonCOn have had the advantage of fighting on known ground (JonCon's home lands), when they advance after Storm's End, it will become harder for them. However, I do suspect that (f)Aegon will win and advance to Kingslanding. (before 2/3rds of the book)

I think it will depend on who will march against SE and how is the situation in KL. It may well happen that there will be no battle if the Tyrell-Lannister alliance is completely shattered and the Tyrells just turn their cloaks.  On the other hand, it is the young Aegon who wants to lead the GC to fight on the field, so there are some risks, specially if the Reach lords are still content with the throne and someone like Tarly leads the Tyrell army.

Edited by rotting sea cow

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19 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

The castle is fallen at the beginning of Winds (check Arianne's chapters). I'm not sure if we'll get a description of the battle. Maybe just some flashbacks.

Ooh, careful with spoilers here ;-).
I was aware of the Arianne chapter, that's why I mentioned that it will be in (f)Aegons hands before 1/3rd of the book has passed. I would think that your description seems very plausible, especially since I think JonCon doesn't mind a bit of tricks in battle. (f)Aegon wants to lead and conquer via battles, JonCon seems to be more careful to make sure his apprentice will be able to rule (and not die in battle before he ascends the throne).

 

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4 hours ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

So we got:

Battle of Mereen

Battle of Winterfell

Storming of Storm's End

Battle of Rose and Dragon

All incoming in the next book. Who do you think will win? What other battles do you think we will see in TWoW? Discuss.

Don't forget huge sea battle between Euron and Paxter.

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Second siege of Meereen -  Barristan will defeat the slaver's and the sellsword companies will join Danerys and Danerys will return with the Dothraki. 

Battle of Ice - The battle at the crofter's village will be won by Stannis. The Freys will go first and fall through the ice and then smashed in the back by the Manderly knights. It is possible that the Boltons will fight aswell but it is more likely that the Boltons will escape and be killed by hidden mountain clan troops or Roose Bolton won't let him in to Winterfell so Stannis will kill him outside.

Siege of Winterfell - It might seem impossible for Stannis to take Winterfell but what to keep in mind is that there are atleast a couple of thousand non Bolton northerners inside Winterfell who hate the Boltons. It is 90% extremely likely that they would betray the Boltons when Stannis comes. Should be easy win for Stannis.

Siege of Storm's End - We already know Aegon took it and he did it by being clever and sneaky.

Aegon vs Mace - Aegon is outnumberd heavily but the Golden Company are a very capable army. Mace Tyrell's army definatly contains "Friends in the Reach" probably Rowan, Tarly and others. Whilst Mace's army is made up of incapable levies and dumb, proud and headstrong knights. This is how i see it going down. The loyal reach knight's will charge the Golden Company and the Golden Company's archers will slaughter them like at Agincourt. The reach knights who make it into close combat will be killed by the disciplined Golden Company infantry and when the reach levies make it closer the Golden Company will countercharge with their elephants and cavalry and the "Friends in the Reach" will betray Mace. Mace's army will be slaughterd.

Euron vs Paxter - Euron will 100% win this probably though some magic.

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2 hours ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

Ooh, careful with spoilers here ;-).

This thread should be in tWoW subforum then ;)

Quote

I was aware of the Arianne chapter, that's why I mentioned that it will be in (f)Aegons hands before 1/3rd of the book has passed. I would think that your description seems very plausible, especially since I think JonCon doesn't mind a bit of tricks in battle. (f)Aegon wants to lead and conquer via battles, JonCon seems to be more careful to make sure his apprentice will be able to rule (and not die in battle before he ascends the throne).

I think the bold part is important, because there seem to be an increasing conflict in approaches between JonCon and Aegon, which will end badly of course, specially for JonCon. So, the question remains, under normal circumstances, one shouldn't expect that a young commander with no battle experience will prevail over a more seasoned and numerous army on the open field. But then, you have the Young Wolf shattering Jaime's army and winning every single engagement over the Lannisters.

Ah, of course, the GC is more seasoned than any army in Westeros. Will be enough to compensate possible leadership pitfalls and its relative small numbers?

Edited by rotting sea cow

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32 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

I think the bold part is important, because there seem to be an increasing conflict in approaches between JonCon and Aegon, which will end badly of course, specially for JonCon. So, the question remains, under normal circumstances, one shouldn't expect that a young commander with no battle experience will prevail over a more seasoned and numerous army on the open field. But then, you have the Young Wolf shattering Jaime's army and winning every single engagement over the Lannisters.

Ah, of course, the GC is more seasoned than any army in Westeros. Will be enough to compensate possible leadership pitfalls and its relative small numbers?

When still moving along the Rhoyne, JonCon is clearly in control and (f)Aegon is clearly still the student. However, his lessons haven't completed yet, I think they crossed the ocean back to Westeros too soon. It would've been better if (f)Aegon had also followed some serious lessons from the GC about tactics, strategy and warfare in general. However, this hasn't happened.

Also, (f)Aegon has been raised in a very protected environment, he has been told he is the rightful Targaryen heir, but has not been taught how to handle the attention and responsibilities that accompany that role. Especially since his ass isn't on the throne just yet, he needs to be extra careful, but he isn't. Quite the contrary, he is becoming more and more bold and is taking more and more chances.
This will cause a rift between him and JonCon, which I think will result in the end of (f)Aegon, as soon as, or just after he ascends the Throne.

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There is also the battle at the crofter's village, where Stannis will likely use the Night Lamp Theory to slaughter the Freys coming after him with minimal losses, giving him a chance against the Boltons.

Edited by Praetor Xyn

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The battle of Mereen looks like it's heading for a Baristan win with*spoiler* Tyrion and the second sons seemingly about to change sides in the sample chapter and with Victorian arriving. Along with the Tattered Prince. The storm crows are allegedly captured so I'm not sure how much of them will see. The real wildcard is the dragons who will likely cause havoc. Expect a dragon capture or death. And expect Baristan or Vic to die. Don't think Danny and the Dothraki will feature.

The battle of Winterfell which most of will probably take place outside of Winterfell seems to have turned in favor of Stannis. I quite like the theory that the Freys will fall through the Ice but that would still leave the whole Bolton army. Unless of course Ramsey has actually left Winterfell. Its worth noting that Davos will potentially return with thousands of men from the Island of Skagos and of course Rickon. And then we have Theon and the tree. I don't think he'll die. I think Stannis will win the Initial battle, consequently this will lead to a seige of winterfell which I don't think will go on very long. I wouldn't be surprised if Roose or Ramsey survived. Asha will die.

Storming of Storm's End - Well they have been successful in this in the Adrianne chapter. Not sure how this happened though. They were probably mistaken for Stannis.

Battle of Rose and Dragon - I'm not sure if there will be a battle after-all. This may depend on whether Doran decides to engage the Dornish army in favor of Aegon. If he does then the Tyrells are in trouble especially as they are stretched on all sides. Futhermore there likely to be involved in conflict with the Lannisters after Kevan's assassination. The faith are also causing lots of problems in kings-landing. I think the tyrells will bend the knee after Margery or Tommen dies and Aegon will take the Iron Throne.

Battle for the wall - I see chaos at the wall. I think the watch will be massacred by the wildlings and the Queen's men ( Mels men ) for the assassination of Jon Snow. Some will be burned. Jon will be resurrected.

Battle of Oldtown  - If Euron is actually where he says he is then I think he will win and maybe sack the city. He may meet sam which will be interesting. Aeron will probably die.

 

Edited by Robert Baratheon's hammer

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1 hour ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

When still moving along the Rhoyne, JonCon is clearly in control and (f)Aegon is clearly still the student. However, his lessons haven't completed yet, I think they crossed the ocean back to Westeros too soon. It would've been better if (f)Aegon had also followed some serious lessons from the GC about tactics, strategy and warfare in general. However, this hasn't happened.

Also, (f)Aegon has been raised in a very protected environment, he has been told he is the rightful Targaryen heir, but has not been taught how to handle the attention and responsibilities that accompany that role. Especially since his ass isn't on the throne just yet, he needs to be extra careful, but he isn't. Quite the contrary, he is becoming more and more bold and is taking more and more chances.
This will cause a rift between him and JonCon, which I think will result in the end of (f)Aegon, as soon as, or just after he ascends the Throne.

Aegon will show us that TPWWP cannot be designed, contrary to Varys discourse. Despite the best and even honest efforts by Varys, Illyrio and JonCon, everything what Aegon experienced (as you say) has been in a controlled environment. Virtual reality cannot replace real one. So, now that events have become real, the pitfalls of his training will show up more and more often.

 

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3 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

Aegon will show us that TPWWP cannot be designed, contrary to Varys discourse. Despite the best and even honest efforts by Varys, Illyrio and JonCon, everything what Aegon experienced (as you say) has been in a controlled environment. Virtual reality cannot replace real one. So, now that events have become real, the pitfalls of his training will show up more and more often.

 

Glad that we agree on this.
As for the other battles. I am mostly looking forward to what will happen after these battles then the fight itself. I mean, it's always nice to read about someone hacking other peoples heads, arms and legs off, or gutting somebody, but the real 'action' in this book is in the consequences, not the act itself.

Looking forward to that......

Please grrm, release the new book quickly!!

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I think there's a good chance of a Men vs Others battle near Storm's End. 

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A million years ago @Nevets had the idea that the battle for Mereen will be lost.  Sad and shocking, true, but the idea packs a punch with me illustrating the futility of Dany's lingering.  She was born a queen, she didn't have to learn or something along those lines.  Other than the potential loss of some excellent characters what is the point of a win in Mereen?  Dany would almost need to conquer all Essos for any huge culture change to be realized.   Mereen is just 1 of many that still practice slavery or say they don't but really do or really don't.   Mereen doesn't matter to Westeros, the IT or the Others.  The only thing I can honestly see moving Dany's story in the direction of Westeros would be the overthrow or rule of Volantis.   If she amasses a Dothraki horde on her own does she really even need the Unsullied?  Mother's Men? Her sellswords will follow her anyway or not.   They are inconsequential in comparison to 60,000 Dothraki screamers.   That's all Robert was afraid of at any rate.  Say Dany never returns to Mereen--then what is the point of the battle other than to kill Barristan, Vic, Grey Worm, Brown Ben and pretty much everyone but Tyrion?   Does anyone honestly see Tyrion not surviving this battle?  

That's not to say I don't want Team Dany (including Marwyn) to succeed in this.  A win just seems to invite more Essos story and I'm just tired of it.  The characters are fascinating, but the story is not.  Astapor and Qaarth were good stories.  Dany's petulance and indecisiveness is silly. She needs to get back on a horse and go wandering or just gather her fleet and get moving.  

The Battle for Winterfell should be full of twists and turns and though I believe Stannis can pull this off I don't think it will be a slam dunk.  I don't think Asha's story is done by a long shot.  Between the houses conspiring against the Boltons in favor of Stannis and actual Bolton forces there aren't that many Bolton loyal.  Given the chance I think any reasonable North man will turn against Roose in a heartbeat.  Blood will be up where Freys are concerned and I expect they will be obliterated.  Those boys are in the wrong place at the wrong time.  

Euron has set up the whole debacle in Old Town.  He has set the Iron Born up for failure.   He's taken the best among his people and propped them up as these little lords of these little islands.  And left them most decisively.  He's left an old man in charge of the Iron Islands. Euron is not on conquest for the Iron Islands at all so much as he is willing to sacrifice his people for whatever his game is.  Though I do see his ultimate triumph should he meet Redwine or Aurane Waters or even Salador Saan I am hoping for Euron to take a few major hits and losses in any conflict.   I'm beginning to suspect that Euron's real purpose may play all the way to endgame.  Gads. 

Aegon & Jon Con should have both expertise and surprise on their side, winning the Stormlands quickly.   Aegon does seem to be a bit of an egotist and firecracker to Jon Con's slow burning rage.  I expect Dorne to join them signaling a civil war in Southern Westeros.  I expect they will go to the Reach to become unlooked for heroes in pushing the Iron Born back.  Then they can head for King's Landing.  However, there should be delays.  Depending upon Margaery's disposition when Aegon saves the Reach, the entire Tyrell clan and their bannermen could easily fall right in line on Aegon's side.  I think Marg would have to either be killed or escape Kings Landing in some way before this could happen.  Either way, Connington hasn't got a lot of time to spend saving the realm.  He needs to get his boy on the IT and he needs to do it fairly quickly.  

The Riverlands are close to exploding.  There are way too many characters converging there and near for this place not to be finally decimated or liberated.  There will be some very hard deaths of beloved characters, but I think the Freys will also be quite done in any capacity in the region.  I don't see the BWB having ambitions beyond this territory and once a final vengeance and peace are brought to the Riverlands I expect this group to break up and go their separate ways.  This will be interesting to read. 

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Let me add my opinions.

Battle of Mereen: I think will be a win for team Dany. I expect the dragon horn to come into play though, with unpredictable results. 

Battle of WF: I 90% subscribe to the Nightlamp theory. I think Theon is about to get sacrificed, and you know what...I'm gonna call it! Theon's kingsblood is going to make Lightbringer produce light AND heat. 

Storm's End: Already happened true, but I believe George said we would see it...I honestly have no idea how JonCon intends to go about this "guile" approach. The best I can come up with is pretending to be smuggler's with provisions, perhaps using the dye to appear Tyroshi. Pretty much a sucessful version of what the Iron Born tried at Oldtown.

Mace vs Aegon: Look out! Look out! Pink elephants on parade! I think this will be a decisive victory for Aegon. I think he will get Blackfyre after Storm's End and put it to good use in this battle. I also think he may personally slay some notable people.

Euron vs Redwyne: I think Euron will own. First off simply, magic. Second, it's always irked me that half of the Iron fleet is lost on the way to Slaver's bay. I believe we will see those ships again...

Third, 

Spoiler

Valyrian Steel armor

 

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