Illyrio Mo'Parties

The dead near Saltpans

16 posts in this topic

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They came upon the first corpse a mile from the crossroads.
He swung beneath the limb of a dead tree whose blackened trunk still bore the scars of the lightning that had killed it. The carrion crows had been at work on his face, and wolves had feasted on his lower legs where they dangled near the ground. Only bones and rags remained below his knees . . . along with one well-chewed shoe, half-covered by mud and mold.
"What does he have in his mouth?" asked Podrick.
Brienne had to steel herself to look. His face was grey and green and ghastly, his mouth open and distended. Someone had shoved a jagged white rock between his teeth. A rock, or ...
 "Salt," said Septon Meribald.
Fifty yards farther on they spied the second body. The scavengers had torn him down, so what remained of him was strewn on the ground beneath a frayed rope looped about the limb of an elm. Brienne might have ridden past him, unawares, if Dog had not sniffed him out and loped into the weeds for a closer smell.
"What do you have there, Dog?" Ser Hyle dismounted, strode after the dog, and came up with a halfhelm. The dead man's skull was still inside it, along with some worms and beetles. "Good steel," he pronounced, "and not too badly dinted, though the lion's lost his head. Pod, would you like a helm?"
"Not that one. It's got worms in it."
"Worms wash out, lad. You're squeamish as a girl."
Brienne scowled at him. "It is too big for him."
"He'll grow into it."
"I don't want to," said Podrick. Ser Hyle shrugged, and tossed the broken helm back into the weeds, lion crest and all. Dog barked and went to lift his leg against the tree.
After that, hardly a hundred yards went by without a corpse. They dangled under ash and alder, beech and birch, larch and elm, hoary old willows and stately chestnut trees. Each man wore a noose around his neck, and swung from a length of hempen rope, and each man's mouth was packed with salt. Some wore cloaks of grey or blue or crimson, though rain and sun had faded them so badly that it was hard to tell one color from another. Others had badges sewn on their breasts. Brienne spied axes, arrows, several salmon, a pine tree, an oak leaf, beetles, bantams, a boar's head, half a dozen tridents. Broken men, she realized, dregs from a dozen armies, the leavings of the lords.
Some of the dead men had been bald and some bearded, some young and some old, some short, some tall, some fat, some thin. Swollen in death, with faces gnawed and rotten, they all looked the same. On the gallows tree, all men are brothers. Brienne had read that in a book, though she could not recall which one.
It was Hyle Hunt who finally put words to what all of them had realized. "These are the men who raided Saltpans."
"May the Father judge them harshly," said Meribald, who had been a friend to the town's aged septon.
Who they were did not concern Brienne half so much as who had hanged them. The noose was the preferred method of execution for Beric Dondarrion and his band of outlaws, it was said. If so, the so-called lightning lord might well be near.
Dog barked, and Septon Meribald glanced about and frowned. "Shall we keep a brisker pace? The sun will soon be setting, and corpses make poor company by night. These were dark and dangerous men, alive. I doubt that death will have improved them."
"There we disagree," said Ser Hyle. "These are just the sort of fellows who are most improved by death." All the same, he put his heels into his horse, and they moved a little faster.

-- Brienne VII, A Feast for Crows

 

Of course, later on Brienne and co. get attacked by Rorge and Biter, who are the actual men responsible for raiding Saltpans. I find it hard to believe that Rorge's band would split up after the raid, nor that they'd lose that many men to the Brotherhood without being destroyed completely. So I suppose that Ser Hyle Hunt is wrong, and these hanged men were not the men who raided Saltpans.

So who were they? I've bolded the sigils, in case people can help. I make Cerwyn, Mooton, and Oakheart (thanks to this), but I can't figure the others.

And once we know who they were - who hanged them? And why?

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P.S. It's not my place to tell other people what to say, but I do think it would be wonderful if I could get at least one thread going where people don't feel compelled to chime in only with the bleeding fucking obvious. So, yes, they're probably random ex-soldiers, killed by the Brotherhood under Lady Stoneheart, in a campaign of frontier justice gone wrong. Occam's razor, that's probably it. Can we please focus on some more interesting possibilities?

I'll start: are they being hanged by Randyll Tarly's men to bolster his propaganda against Beric Dondarrion? Perhaps they didn't even die in the Riverlands, but are just casualties of the fighting at Duskendale or Maidenpool. I note that Septon Meribald is able to pick up a large quantity of salt at Maidenpool:

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They left the next morning, as the sun was coming up.

It was a queer procession: Ser Hyle on a chestnut courser and Brienne on her tall grey mare, Podrick Payne astride his swayback stot, and Septon Meribald walking beside them with his quarterstaff, leading a small donkey and a large dog. The donkey carried such a heavy load that Brienne was half afraid its back would break. "Food for the poor and hungry of the riverlands," Septon Meribald told them at the gates of Maidenpool. "Seeds and nuts and dried fruit, oaten porridge, flour, barley bread, three wheels of yellow cheese from the inn by the Fool's Gate, salt cod for me, salt mutton for Dog . . . oh, and salt. Onions, carrots, turnips, two sacks of beans, four of barley, and nine of oranges. I have a weakness for the orange, I confess. I got these from a sailor, and I fear they will be the last I'll taste till spring."

-- Brienne V, A Feast for Crows

ETA: Whoops, I forgot that Tarly is trying to pin Saltpans on Beric. So unless he's trying to suggest that Beric is hanging people left and right to throw off the trail from his own scent, it's probably not Tarly. Damn, I thought I was on to something cool there.

Edited by Illyrio Mo'Parties

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Related sigils include:

axe - Byrch, Cerwyn

arrow - Hunter (doubtful), Norridge, Sarsfield

salmon - Mooton

pine tree - Orkwood (doubtful), Mollen, Tallhart

oak leaf - Oakheart

beetle - Bettley

bantam - Swyft

boar's head - Vikary

trident - Manderly, Haigh (pitchfork)

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Also lion, on the half helm offered to Podrick. Probably not Reyne  ;-)

Edited by zandru

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2 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

-- Brienne VII, A Feast for Crows

 

Of course, later on Brienne and co. get attacked by Rorge and Biter, who are the actual men responsible for raiding Saltpans. I find it hard to believe that Rorge's band would split up after the raid, nor that they'd lose that many men to the Brotherhood without being destroyed completely. So I suppose that Ser Hyle Hunt is wrong, and these hanged men were not the men who raided Saltpans.

So who were they? I've bolded the sigils, in case people can help. I make Cerwyn, Mooton, and Oakheart (thanks to this), but I can't figure the others.

And once we know who they were - who hanged them? And why?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P.S. It's not my place to tell other people what to say, but I do think it would be wonderful if I could get at least one thread going where people don't feel compelled to chime in only with the bleeding fucking obvious. So, yes, they're probably random ex-soldiers, killed by the Brotherhood under Lady Stoneheart, in a campaign of frontier justice gone wrong. Occam's razor, that's probably it. Can we please focus on some more interesting possibilities?

I'll start: are they being hanged by Randyll Tarly's men to bolster his propaganda against Beric Dondarrion? Perhaps they didn't even die in the Riverlands, but are just casualties of the fighting at Duskendale or Maidenpool. I note that Septon Meribald is able to pick up a large quantity of salt at Maidenpool:

-- Brienne V, A Feast for Crows

Since you're asking for some crackpottery, perhaps they were hanged by people headed the other direction? Wolves in sheeps clothing if you will, if the HS is HR and the sisters who tend Cersei are of the North. Perhaps more came too, and as they came they did a little cleaning. Don't they use ropes as belts?

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2 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

I'll start: are they being hanged by Randyll Tarly's men to bolster his propaganda against Beric Dondarrion? Perhaps they didn't even die in the Riverlands, but are just casualties of the fighting at Duskendale or Maidenpool. I note that Septon Meribald is able to pick up a large quantity of salt at Maidenpool.

How does it help bolster the propaganda? Is Tarly trying to portray that the BWB aren't needed? If so, well Maidenpool is in the RLs. The big story from the Saltpans is that "Sandor Clegane" was there. There isn't anything to tie those guys to the BWB either. It's just a bunch of random corpses. Saying that they were members of the BWB isn't going to convince anyone.

I guess Tarly or the Frey knight could have hanged those men, but I just don't see much useful coming out of it portraying them as BWB members, unless you're going to say Sandor joined them, which I don't believe we've seen as of yet.

40 minutes ago, The Bastards Giant Friend said:

Since you're asking for some crackpottery, perhaps they were hanged by people headed the other direction? Wolves in sheeps clothing if you will, if the HS is HR and the sisters who tend Cersei are of the North. Perhaps more came too, and as they came they did a little cleaning. Don't they use ropes as belts?

Oh god please no

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12 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

How does it help bolster the propaganda? Is Tarly trying to portray that the BWB aren't needed? If so, well Maidenpool is in the RLs. The big story from the Saltpans is that "Sandor Clegane" was there. There isn't anything to tie those guys to the BWB either. It's just a bunch of random corpses. Saying that they were members of the BWB isn't going to convince anyone.

I guess Tarly or the Frey knight could have hanged those men, but I just don't see much useful coming out of it portraying them as BWB members, unless you're going to say Sandor joined them, which I don't believe we've seen as of yet.

Oh god please no

Ha! Haven't you ever seen a cracked pot at a market and thought to yourself "gotta have it"?

Perhaps the hangings are the work of disgruntled rope industry titans. And they have turned their sweatshop employees into armies. 

No, they would take too much pride in their work to use ropes that could fray.

Perhaps the people hanged themselves in their attempt to get out of reach of a pack of ravenous wolves led by Nymeria?

Nay, I stand by this being the churches work. Which is why dog owns it and pees on the tree to mark their territory.

Edited by The Bastards Giant Friend
Seen not scene

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3 hours ago, Nittanian said:

Related sigils include:

axe - Byrch, Cerwyn

arrow - Hunter (doubtful), Norridge, Sarsfield

salmon - Mooton

pine tree - Orkwood (doubtful), Mollen, Tallhart

oak leaf - Oakheart

beetle - Bettley

bantam - Swyft

boar's head - Vikary

trident - Manderly, Haigh (pitchfork)

Thanks! Is the trident the thing she'd notice for Manderly men, though? Isn't the merman the bigger part of the sigil?

32 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

How does it help bolster the propaganda? Is Tarly trying to portray that the BWB aren't needed? If so, well Maidenpool is in the RLs. The big story from the Saltpans is that "Sandor Clegane" was there. There isn't anything to tie those guys to the BWB either. It's just a bunch of random corpses. Saying that they were members of the BWB isn't going to convince anyone.

I guess Tarly or the Frey knight could have hanged those men, but I just don't see much useful coming out of it portraying them as BWB members, unless you're going to say Sandor joined them, which I don't believe we've seen as of yet.

That wasn't what I meant, but you've pointed out a pretty big hole in that idea so it doesn't matter anyway. OP updated to reflect that.

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7 minutes ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Thanks! Is the trident the thing she'd notice for Manderly men, though? Isn't the merman the bigger part of the sigil?

Manderlys usually use the merman, but Wylis and Wyman are known to also use trident brooches.

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One fat lordling haunted the kitchens, Hot Pie told her, always looking for a morsel. His mustache was so bushy that it covered his mouth, and the clasp that held his cloak was a silver-and-sapphire trident. (ACOK Arya VII)

His velvet doublet was a soft blue-green, embroidered with golden thread at hem and sleeves and collar. His mantle was ermine, pinned at the shoulder with a golden trident. (ADWD Davos IV)

 

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The dead men had salt stuffed in their mouth! Sounds like that Meribald character mighta been up to clandestine activities. He did tell Brienne he fought in the War of the Ninepenny Kings and that he’s been a septon for 40 years. The last 20 of which he has been shoeless.

Here’s my picks for the sigils Brienne spied

Axes   Cerwyn (north) or Dustin (north)

Arrows   Hunter (vale)  ?

Salmon   Mooton (riverlands)

Pine tree   Mollen (north)

Oak leaf   Blanetree (riverlands) or Oakheart (reach)

Beetles   Bettley (westerlands)

Bantams   Herston (stormlands) or Swyft (westerlands)

Boars head   Vikary (westerlands)

Tridents    Cordon (north)

I’ve been re-reading the FfC Brienne chapters. Finally got to Brienne VI. FfC, what can I say, other than was is a difficult read for me the first time and taxing re-read. I haven’t gotten to the part mentioned below about the hanged men.

On 2/17/2017 at 10:46 AM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

I find it hard to believe that Rorge's band would split up after the raid, nor that they'd lose that many men to the Brotherhood without being destroyed completely. So I suppose that Ser Hyle Hunt is wrong, and these hanged men were not the men who raided Saltpans.

When Brienne’s little band met up Shagwell, Pyg and Timeon at the Whispers Timeon says:

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A Feast for Crows - Brienne IV   Timeon shrugged. "We all went our own ways, after we left Harrenhal. Urswyck and his lot rode south for Oldtown. Rorge thought he might slip out at Saltpans. Me and my lads made for Maidenpool, but we couldn't get near a ship." The Dornishman hefted his spear. "You did for Vargo with that bite, you know. His ear turned black and started leaking pus. Rorge and Urswyck were for leaving, but the Goat says we got to hold his castle. Lord of Harrenhal, he says he is, no one was going to take it off him. He said it slobbery, the way he always talked. We heard the Mountain killed him piece by piece. A hand one day, a foot the next, lopped off neat and clean. They bandaged up the stumps so Hoat didn't die. He was saving his cock for last, but some bird called him to King's Landing, so he finished it and rode off."

So far it is difficult to ascertain how much truth Hyle is telling. He said Tarly had told him to follow Brienne when she left Maidenpool the first time. The second time Brienne left Maidenpool Hyle said Tarly had dismissed him. He also says that Tarly is putting out word that the Hound is riding with Beric to turn the common against Beric & the Brotherhood.

 

Edited by Clegane'sPup

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Yeah they split up after Harrenhal but after the Saltpans raid? They can't have been that numerous, and there's safety in numbers, especially after you just burned down a town.

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21 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Yeah they split up after Harrenhal but after the Saltpans raid?

After reading the quagmire the only thing I can come up with is the people in story think that Sandor is rampaging with one of the many bands of outlaws. I, the reader am told differently in the Brienne chapter that introduces the Elder Brother.  The Elder Brother for some odd reason seems well informed about the activities happening outside his Quite Isle. An example of that is, according to Meribald the EB told him that the inn was being run by the two Heddle girls.

The hanged men with salt in their mouths – that’s the work of LSH’s crew. It is not explained until later that Beric died giving Cat the kiss. Which means to me in story people think Beric is alive.  Stuffing salt in their mouth is an interesting bit that I had not noticed until you mentioned it and could possibly make an interesting topic.

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A Feast for Crows - Brienne VIII   "Guest right don't mean so much as it used to," said the girl. "Not since m'lady come back from the wedding. Some o' them swinging down by the river figured they was guests too."

Below are a few quotes that I think apply to the general discussion of the topic. Keep in mind that Shagwell told Brienne Rorge may have gone to the Saltpans. Rorge is in possession of the hound helmet.

When Rorge showed up at the inn he had six companions with him. Brienne killed Rorge. Gendry killed Biter. Gendry had told Brienne she would meet his friends and Brienne thought:

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A Feast for Crows - Brienne VII     He shrugged. "You'll meet them soon enough."  I may not want to meet them, Brienne thought, as the first riders came splashing through the puddles into the yard. Beneath the patter of the rain and Dog's barking, she could hear the faint clink of swords and mail from beneath their ragged cloaks. She counted them as they came. Two, four, six, seven. Some of them were wounded, judging from the way they rode.

Later Brienne asks a question and is told:

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A Feast for Crows - Brienne VIII    "Why set my bones and wash my wounds if you only mean to hang me?"  "Why indeed?" He glanced at the candle, as if he could no longer bear to look at her. "You fought bravely at the inn, they tell me. Lem should not have left the crossroads. He was told to stay close, hidden, to come at once if he saw smoke rising from the chimney . . . but when word reached him that the Mad Dog of Saltpans had been seen making his way north along the Green Fork, he took the bait. We have been hunting that lot for so long . . . still, he ought to have known better. As it was, it was half a day before he realized that the mummers had used a stream to hide their tracks and doubled back behind him, and then he lost more time circling around a column of Frey knights. If not for you, only corpses might have remained at the inn by the time that Lem and his men got back.

So, I’ve got Tarly, Freys and some lordling trying to clean up outlaws. Tarly considers this Lady Stoneheart an outlaw. As mentioned above, Lem & his group were supposed to be keeping watch at the inn.

I assume Rorges pack that showed up at the inn are the ones who burned and pillaged Saltpans.

I assume the hanging dead men with salt stuffed in their mouth were men killed by LSH’s crew.

If I back up to the SoS epilogue I know that Cat is alive (?) but she does not yet have the moniker LSH. She is also aware that Sandor, the Hound, may have had Arya with him. I would also mention that Arya in her last chapter in SoS boarded the Titan’s Daughter at Saltpans. The ship was bound for Braavos. Saltpans a tiny minor little port of call what’s a Braavosi ship doing there.

That ship is mentioned by name again in FfC:

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A Feast for Crows - Brienne V   Half a dozen were in port, though one, a galleas called the Titan's Daughter, was casting off her lines to ride out on the evening tide.

Two books forward, one book back. Three POV’s forward, four POV’s back. Sometimes it’s fun. Sometimes it’s annoying. At least for me anyway. Have I thoroughly confused you? I know the re-read of these FfC Brienne chapters have totally confudicated me. :cheers:

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Are we really playing detective or are we throwing darts at a field?

Has anyone considered what the Ironborn have to gain from those hangings???

Where was LF at the time these people were hung?

And, come to think of it, I've never fully believed that Baroq just showed up when it was time to walk through the gate.

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48 minutes ago, The Bastards Giant Friend said:

Are we really playing detective or are we throwing darts at a field?

Has anyone considered what the Ironborn have to gain from those hangings???

Where was LF at the time these people were hung hanged?

And, come to think of it, I've never fully believed that Baroq just showed up when it was time to walk through the gate.

Hanged, TBGF. Those men were not tapestries.

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55 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Hanged, TBGF. Those men were not tapestries.

Where TF were you at the time of their hanging?

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1 hour ago, The Bastards Giant Friend said:

Where TF were you at the time of their hanging?

I'd rather not say

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Great spot. My guess is

axes: Cerwyn, Stark allies, were in the attack on Duskendale. Could be Dustin too, but don't think they were part of Robett's force?

arrows: Sarsfield, Lannister allies, with Tarly's host. More doubtfully Norridge, of the Reach, whose sigil is burning arrows: Not Hunter of Vale, as there is no other indication any of them have strayed to the Saltpans.

salmon: Mooton, now allied with Tarly.

Pine tree: Tallhart, Stark allies, were in the attack on Duskendale. Mollen are another Stark ally with a pine tree sigil, but they don't appear to have gone anywhere near the Saltpans. Orkwood and Hoare also have pine trees, but no other sign that Ironborn are in the Saltpans at that time.

oak leaf: Oakheart,Reach allies, likely in Tarly's host.

beetles: Bettley, Lannister allies, Brienne identified some in Tarly's guard at Maidenpool.

bantams: Swyft, Lannister allies. This is interesting, because I would have thought Harys's forces were rather small, and that they would stick close to him, as he sticks close to the Lannisters of Casterley Rock. So I would expect to see them around Cersei at King's Landing, to have left Harrenhal with Tywin, and not to have ventured into the Saltpans.

Boars head: Crakehall, Lannister allies.

tridents: This is the most puzzling. House Teauge, Kings of the Rivers and the Hills, were based at Maidenpool, but they are extinct. However, perhaps there are locals with old Teauge shields. House Haigh of the Riverlands have crossed three-pronged pitchforks as a sigil, and accompanied Ser Arwood Frey to respond to the Brave Companions raid on the Saltpans. Maybe Brienne misread the pitchforks as tridents? I doubt she would miss the merman holding the Manderley trident, and there are no Manderleys of White Harbour spotted in the area.

And of course, a Lion-helmed Lannister.

So, on the whole, these do not look like broken men. They look like casualties from the Lannister force Randyll had taken to Duskendale (the Tallhart and Cerwyn armour might have been scavenged, the way Septon Meribald suggested Podrick take the lion helm).

I'm guessing they were killed in their attempts to deal with the Brotherhood Without Banners, as there doesn't seem to be any casualties from the other side. This is a clue that the smallfolk are aiding one side, so they are not taken by surprise, and their dead are collected and given a respectful burial. I can't suppose they would do that much for the Brave Companions, or the Northmen, the two other forces that have razed the area.

As @Clegane'sPup has already said, the salt stuffed in the mouth looks a lot like the ruthlessness of LSH. (If we compare and contrast with the men at Stoney Sept, the smallfolk approve of additional nastiness, but Lord Beric demanded they hang them cleanly.)

I don't think this has anything much to do with Rorge and his Brave Companions, apart from that LSH's crew might be tracking him down as they wreak their way through the Saltpans. Randyll has done a lousy job of freeing the Riverlands from the depredations of broken men, and especially from the Brave Companions - three of the worst of them had been hiding out Maidenpool, right under his nose, and Shagwell still in his motley, for goodness sake.

None of these hanged men match the description of any Brave Companions. Most, possibly all, are from Randyll's forces, judging by the sigils. It is possible that they have broke from Randyll's men and Randyll's justice, but I doubt it, because there are so many sigils on display.

Randyll has kept his forces concentrated in defensible and strategic places (Maidenpool and Duskendale), where he can enrich himself by getting the ports open and marrying off his son, and from where he can march straight back to Kings Landing and take over if the need arises. He guards the main roads and sends out sorties that hunt down the odd outlaw, several against one.

There is no good reason for him to disperse his forces throughout the Saltpans, merely to chase broken men. It works better for him if the areas outside his protection are dangerous and lawless - as long as the areas that matter to him strategically are protected, it serves to show the smallfolk they would be better off allying with him, if given the opportunity. Given the number of people Brienne sees sliding off the main road when his men approach, it is not too hard to avoid his men if you want to.

So, I think it is more likely that these men were either sorties commissioned by Randyll to go into the saltpans after broken men, or they were a force that had been sent out from Maidenpool to secure the Saltpans. Given they are still green and hanging, except where despoiled by carrion (ie. weeks old), rather than strips of leathern black flesh and dry white bones beneath the trees (ie. months old), and given the sigils from Randyll's forces from the Reach are there, and Northern ones that might have been scavenged at Duskendale,  and Clegane's forces from Harrenhal are mostly not represented, it seems more likely they came up from Maidenpool fairly recently, rather than down from the Trident earlier, like Arya and the Brave Companions.

If LSH was assisted by the locals, it shows that even after the massacre at the Salt Pans, they don't identify Randyll's occupying forces as friendly to them. Or maybe Randyll's forces made that clear with their behaviour. Judging by the guards at the gates of Maidenpool, they seem an undisciplined lot, and as fond of throwing their weight around, if not as sadistic as the Brave Companions. And I suppose the ones that wanted to be furthest from Randyll would be more likely to volunteer for a march to the Saltpans.

It is interesting too, that Randyll doesn't seem to have said anything, or know anything about them. I'm wondering if he is aware of a largish contingent of his forces being wiped out in the Saltpans, but has preferred not to mention it to anyone - as there is no official force at large in the Riverlands other than the Lannisters, maybe he would rather not sully his name with news of a defeat, even if it means failing to alert his overlords to a threatening force. Or maybe he hasn't heard back from them yet, and isn't aware of the threat because there is no-one left to report it back to him, and he left Maidenpool before enough time had lapsed to cause him concern. Maybe you are onto something here - he wants to blame the massacre of the Saltpans on the Brave Companions, but knows his own forces were involved and dead men tell no tales?

GRRM has said something about Chekhov's giant wolf pack featuring in Winds of Winter. I'm guessing the carrion that attacked the corpses here were wolves (They clearly were not crows). LSH's version of the BwB is a metaphorical wolf pack, banding together in the winter. Maybe in the next book, Cersei (or Randyll) will become aware that quite a lot of Lannister troops have gone into the area between the Trident and the Saltpans and not reported back. Randyll might have trouble dismissing the threat when Cersei finds Jaime is gone.

ETA:

re:"I would also mention that Arya in her last chapter in SoS boarded the Titan’s Daughter at Saltpans. The ship was bound for Braavos. Saltpans a tiny minor little port of call what’s a Braavosi ship doing there." @Clegane'sPup

Are you sure she is at the Saltpans? She supposes so, but I think she might have overshot the Saltpans, and caught the Titan's Daughter from Maidenpool. As you say, why would they put in at the Saltpans?

Edited by Walda

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