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John Suburbs

Foreshadowings?

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I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas of what sort of foreshadowing in the past five novels might point to key plot points of WoW and DoS?

There's a post on Reddit that has Tyrion leading the assault on Casterly Rock after the current owner (Cersei maybe?) holes up inside. It's basically built out of a mountain, so even the Black Dread's dragonfire wouldn't be enough to bring it down, let alone Dany's relatively young brood.

So how do they get in? The same way they did in Meereen: through the sewage system or, as Tyrion calls them, the drains and cisterns, which he was in charge of for a while. There is also the bit in the Hedge Knight about the dwarves who crawled up the privy shaft to steal the dragon egg.

Any other ideas about things in the past that might affect the future?

 

 

 

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You mean, besides key prophesies like Dosh Khaleen's, HOTU, Melissandre & Bran's visions, Maggy the Frogg, etc? Lots of them haven't yet come to pass.

In the thread Moments of Foreshadowing you can also find lots of tiny details that point to future events. I wonder how GRRM keeps track of that seemingly large number of future events.

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On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 4:11 PM, rotting sea cow said:

You mean, besides key prophesies like Dosh Khaleen's, HOTU, Melissandre & Bran's visions, Maggy the Frogg, etc? Lots of them haven't yet come to pass.

In the thread Moments of Foreshadowing you can also find lots of tiny details that point to future events. I wonder how GRRM keeps track of that seemingly large number of future events.

Yes, the big ones are already out there. I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on the little things, like Tyrion's familiarity with the CR drains and cisterns.

Just curious.

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How can we tell if something is foreshadowing if the book hasn't been released yet?

 

Edited by Dorian Martell's son

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22 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

How can we tell if something is foreshadowing if hte book hasn't been released yet?

 

Lol, fair point. But I'm looking at possible foreshadowings.

Here is one from Arianne I:

Quote

Arianne played a game of cyvasse with Ser Daemon, and another one with Garibald Shells, and somehow managed to lose both.  Ser Garibald was kind enough to say that she played a gallant game, but Daemon mocked her.  "You have other pieces beside the dragon, princess.  Try moving them sometime."

Foreshadowing that Dany's dragons might not be the sure-fire (sorry) means of conquering the 7K that people think it is?

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Gendel and Gorne foreshadows Bran returning south through the caves.

The bear and bull that battle to the death in the fighting pits foreshadows Jorah and Victarion killing each other.

The Ironborn who captured the riverlands by carrying their longships overland foreshadow Euron doing this at the mouth of the mander to the Honeywine in order to avoid all the defenses of Oldtown.

Davos smuggling food into Storms End foreshadows the "guile" Jon Con will use.

Varamys prologue foreshadows Jon going into Ghost.

 

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Tyrion's opinion about how the Dothraki should attack Volantis foreshadows how Daenerys will do it after leaving Meereen.

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On 2/25/2017 at 1:56 PM, John Suburbs said:

Lol, fair point. But I'm looking at possible foreshadowings.

Here is one from Arianne I:

Foreshadowing that Dany's dragons might not be the sure-fire (sorry) means of conquering the 7K that people think it is?

We will see if/when the next book comes out 

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Jon's characterization of Tyrion's shadow, tall as a king and Aemon's characterization of Tyrion as a giant among men; as well as Tyrion's many musing about writing the song himself; makes me think that he will survive to clean up after all is said and done; that this will be the scouring of the shire ending in some way.

Also that Arya will give Jon the gift of mercy with the sword he himself gave her, because all men must die; even the undead ones.

Also Jon's musing to Arya that they may take different roads but end up in the same place; sounds like they will cross paths again and Jon's joke that they will find her frozen in the ice clutching needle sounds ominous to me; that this might be where Brienne or Tyrion finally find her.  

Edited by LynnS

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Posted (edited)

Davos is set-up as either being Azor Ahai Reborn or Lightbringer. Few things have foreshadowed this. 

Is also thing that the Black Humour of Edd Tollett is eventually foreshadowing his own death and rise as a Other/White Walker and that its Jon who has to kill him. 

Edited by nickdt

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So how do they get in?

easy, they don't...

he floods it.

looping it all back to "Rains of Castamere"

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21 hours ago, DigUpHerBones said:

easy, they don't...

he floods it.

looping it all back to "Rains of Castamere"

That would still leave them locked out of the rock, though. And I'm not even sure it would work. CR is a huge rock jutting up from the ground while Castemere is a normal-sized castle that had mines underneath it that were converted to living space when the gold ran out. Plus there is a nice lake nearby that can be easily diverted into the mines.

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I think the answer to this question is every bloody word, sentence, colour, action, song, meeting, animal, tree, wood, sigil name in the series foreshadows something.

Every word has a meaning - it is an incredible feat but I think it is true.

You have the obvious the prophesies and the old tales (Nan's and others). These each need to come true in some form or other eg Bael the bard, the moon bursting rleasing dragons, the tales of the long night (from all cultures).

Then you have the songs - each will be repeated.

Just about everything by the various maesters dismissed as wrong by the author of the world book.

 

That part is easy.

 

But you have so much history and mythology in the text that it is hard to predict who will do what.

 

At first I think the idea was really the Wars of the Roses plus the dynastic succession in Scotland (the North) but playing out the tale of Ragnarök. In this scenario the Southern Kingdoms represented Asgard (and the people the Anglosaxons), the Northerners and first men the Celtic and older Britannic gods, The Valyrians - the Romans and the Septons - Christianity and the Targs - the Normans.

 

 

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If Tyrion takes Casterly Rock from Cersei I imagine it would come through gaining support from the remaining Lannisters and bannermen. 

Cersei's reputation is already in tatters and she will eventually reap what she's sewn. She'd be considered a liability with the enemies she's made while Tyrion would represent a more peaceful option with a powerful alliance. I also don't think he'd be as despised as people think for killing Tywin, especially as we're explicitly told that while he was feared and respected, he was never loved.

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On 11 March 2017 at 10:53 AM, Luddagain said:

I think the answer to this question is every bloody word, sentence, colour, action, song, meeting, animal, tree, wood, sigil name in the series foreshadows something.

Every word has a meaning - it is an incredible feat but I think it is true.

I have been coming around to this point of view. I mean I hope its not so completely sewn up and hermetic but there are all sorts of little ties between chapters that aren't exactly foreshadowing, references, prophecies, but 'something like', they tie parts together and give a strong feeling that everything is predestined for these characters. That's in addition to all the actual stuff I accept as foreshadowing, working out of prophecies, references or appropriations from literature or history...

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