XIIIsnow

What awaits in Asshai ?

66 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, zandru said:

I strongly suspect you're right here. Fake Pate appears to have been at the Citadel for awhile - what could have clued him to the possibility that Samwell Tarly (and family) would eventually be arriving from the Wall? Nothing that I can think of that makes sense. So Sam doesn't appear to be in the crosshairs, as it were. But it's likely that Sam (at least) will be sharing a significant amount of information about what's going on at and North of the Wall with his roomie. Less chance that "Pate" will break cover, however, and reveal anything about the wider world to Sam.

That was a great run-down on the references to, and implications of Assha'i, by the way! We need to always bear in mind the "unreliable narrator" effect. The World of Ice'n'Fire gives a maesters' s point of view - a fairly ancient one, it seems; Marwyn would have provided a much better and more current write-up, and he's near as ubiquitous in references as Assha'i is, interestingly. Not to mention Marwyn is in ill repute with the maester power structure, while being held in high esteem by some of the smarter maesters and others. Let's hope we see a lot more of Marwyn in the coming books.

Tnx :) What make my wits tickle is the fact that Fake Pate is still around ! He had his key, so what is he waiting for? I suspect that finding the key was just half of work to be done and that now he has to find the way to quickly grab what he is after...maybe, just maybe, Sam is going to be his assistant in that. I mean, maybe Sem will, purposely or not, help him to find the thing Pate is looking for inside the Citadel. It's not like there are only five doors there, but possibly hundreds and Pate cant just go from one to another without raising some brows :) 

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9 hours ago, XIIIsnow said:

I have to say that I am writing this fully on the hunch right now, but I had a feeling that Yeen is much older than Asshai. MAybe because, we do have some scarce info on Asshai, but almost not at all about Yeen. But, it's a hunch, dont have any solid arguments.

I second that. I see this as a cycle of rising civilizations and crippling catastrophes.

I'm thinking that the Deep Ones created Yeen, Asshai and all of the other Oily Black Stone structures then were forced into the oceans by the Children of the Forest  during the first catastrophe- the one that set the seasons off kilter. I suspect this was caused by the Deep Ones in desperation and is characterized by the power of mutation that the OBS embodies and may have led to the creation of dragons.

The CotF in turn came into conflict with humans and raised the Fist of the Waters in desperation. I'm unclear on the details but I also that the CotF were involved, along with nefarious Deep Ones, in the Bloodstone Emperor's shenanigans that caused the Long Night.

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6 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Thanks again. Interesting to think the Deep Ones may have created the children. I believe life one Planetos would have first flourished in the oceans, so The Deep Ones would be a fair choice for "first powerful race", and creating something like Those Who Sing The Songs Of Earth would certainly prove useful in land based recon missions.

A theory I had was that the entire world was at one point connected through some kind of "Weirwood Net" system. Truth and harmony with nature, with the ability to understand all other forms of life. If all living things go into the Weirwood collective consience, couldnt it be possible that this was once the case for the living? Whever this predates humans on Planetos I dont know, but I picture the Deep Ones/whoever brought the oily stones original mischief in Yeen to be the catalyst for a less connected world. The events in Asshai would have further sent the natural world into madness.

Since we're here, whats your prognosis on The Deep Ones contact with Asshai and The GEOTD? Did the creatures from the depths build the entire city?

 

Perhaps weirwoods are the only native sentient species- humans and Deep Ones being invaders and the CotF being created by the trees from human stock to act as instruments.

I'm not sure if the Deep Ones built Asshai themselves or if they influenced the GeoDawnians into using that building material for themselves. The scale and style seem different enough to me that I suspect that it may be the latter, however. I have no idea what kind of agents the Deep Ones would use for this, but I suspect that humans living in proximity to OBS may be opening themselves up to direct mental influence so it may be that they never even had to leave the comfort of the lightless depths.

Edited by hiemal

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Asshai and Valyria serve to remind the reader that civilizations can and do perish when humans get greedy.  The Valyrians dug their mines too deep and that could have caused the cataclysm.  Asshai practiced magic with little to no restrictions.  If there are mad scientists there are mad magicians.  One of those magic experiments could have gone awry and destroyed the environment around the city.  The mutated fish around Asshai could be damage from chemical or radiation as well. 

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4 hours ago, Steelshanks Walton said:

Asshai and Valyria serve to remind the reader that civilizations can and do perish when humans get greedy.  The Valyrians dug their mines too deep and that could have caused the cataclysm.  Asshai practiced magic with little to no restrictions.  If there are mad scientists there are mad magicians.  One of those magic experiments could have gone awry and destroyed the environment around the city.  The mutated fish around Asshai could be damage from chemical or radiation as well. 

I completely agree with you :) It is hard not to draw a parallel between Valyrian mines and Tolkien's Moria, or on the other hand between Asshai (or its surroundings and Stygai) and Minas Morgul :) maybe there is some dead army awaiting in Stygai :) But, nevertheless, people learned some great stuff overther or got some valuable objects, that is why I think there is more to it than it meets the eye :)

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On 20/2/2017 at 2:37 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Thanks. Seems like you're new around here, so hello! *waves*

Excellent observation!

Marwyn had nothing to do with Aegon's being saved so far as we know. Ashara may or may not have anything to do with it. I don't really see any reason for Tom O' Sevens to be involved, but if Lem really is Lonmouth I could definitely see him being in on it. However, I've frequently used Jon's baby switch to explain how Varys' baby switch is possible. I think the other players would be secondary at best. And since I like the idea of Varys being a Targ descendant (most likely from the Brightflame line) it makes for a nice symmetry if Jon is Rhaegar's son.

Ran used to say that Ashara was Quaithe but I've never been sure if he was being serious or was kidding. 

Agreed. Asshai is important.

Mostly agreed.

I've just tried to draw parallels between two arcs. That's the Grrm way, actually.

If Aegon is in Asshai, somebody had to take him there, a little child can't flee as that by his own. The main suspect is Ashara, while Quaithe comes from there, so it's frequently thought it's the same person. No real evidence, anyhow.

Whoever it were, there should be someone else, just in case. And Marwin had been in Asshai, who knows?

As for Tom, or Lem, you can leave them aside as well. Tom is a singer, as Daeron was. Lem was to Rhaegar as Sam was to Aemon, more or less. It could make sense, but it's not that important.

Just passing time while TWOW is released.

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