Quellon

Second strongest houses in each kingdom?

68 posts in this topic

What are they? Let's start from the North. Right now, as far as I know at least, Bolton's are number one. I think most likely number two are the Manderly's, since they still hold the only city in the realm. Karstarks are also up there and the Umbers. In The Riverlands, Tully's are still number one and number two...Freys, I guess. Brackens also have profitted from being on the side of the crown, but they are still behind the Freys in number. In The Vale it's rather obviously house Royce. Westerlands...that one is pretty much unclear. The Westerlings? Cleganes are surely not it. In the Crownlands it must be...Stokeworth's, since Bronn marrying Lolys Stokeworth is considered a good match for him. Rosbys are also strong since they and the Stokeworth's supplied food to KL. Stormlands...at the moment, it seems to be the Swann's, although Baratheons are still going strong but are not IN the Stormlands. Anyway, they would be the strongest house anyway. ;) In The Reach it's the Hightower's no doubt. And in Dorne, the Yronwood's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we're going by house strength at the start of A Game of Thrones:

The North: Boltons, but the Manderly wealth is certainly nothing to sniff at. I think their "outsider" status is really the only thing keeping them from taking the title. And I'm sure the Umbers and Karstarks would bridle at them not being #1, but the Boltons were the toughest house to subdue and have certainly amassed quite the rep.

The Riverlands: I would think the Brackens and Blackwoods would be in contention, but the Freys by sheer number probably are the number two house. Maybe the Mallisters would also be possible?

The Westerlands: If we're ignoring cadet branches of House Lannister, the Marbrands and the Westerlings seem like good picks.

The Crownlands: Again, if we're ignoring cadet branches of House Baratheon (in this case, Stannis's branch), probably the Velaryons.

The Iron Islands: House Harlaw.

The Vale: House Royce.

The Stormlands: The Dondarrions, maybe? I know Beric is the last heir of the house but I believe there is a pretty sizable force there, and their reputation does precede them.

The Reach: The Redwynes and Hightowers are likely duking it out for this spot.

Dorne: House Yronwood.

 

Edited by Ser Frasier of House Crane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

North; House Boltons and Manderly

Reach; House Hightower and Redwyne

Vale; House Royce of Runestone

Riverlands; House Frey

Westelands; House Lannister of Lannisport

Iron Isles; House Harlaw

Dorne; House Yronwood and Dayne of Starfall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ser Frasier of House Crane said:

the Westerlings

The Westerlings are old but not strong or rich.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

The Westerlings are old but not strong or rich.

Considering how many diffuse branches of the Lannister family there are, it's pretty slim pickings to go for a house that isn't extinct or the Cleganes. And I'd think that its ancient pedigree would benefit it somewhat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Ser Frasier of House Crane said:

If we're going by house strength at the start of A Game of Thrones:

The North: Boltons, but the Manderly wealth is certainly nothing to sniff at. I think their "outsider" status is really the only thing keeping them from taking the title. And I'm sure the Umbers and Karstarks would bridle at them not being #1, but the Boltons were the toughest house to subdue and have certainly amassed quite the rep.

The Riverlands: I would think the Brackens and Blackwoods would be in contention, but the Freys by sheer number probably are the number two house. Maybe the Mallisters would also be possible?

The Westerlands: If we're ignoring cadet branches of House Lannister, the Marbrands and the Westerlings seem like good picks.

The Crownlands: Again, if we're ignoring cadet branches of House Baratheon (in this case, Stannis's branch), probably the Velaryons.

The Iron Islands: House Harlaw.

The Vale: House Royce.

The Stormlands: The Dondarrions, maybe? I know Beric is the last heir of the house but I believe there is a pretty sizable force there, and their reputation does precede them.

Dorne: House Yronwood.

 

I didn't know they were still in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Vale - House Royce
The Reach - House Hightower
Dorne - House Yronwood
Westerlands - Lannister of Lannisport
Iron islands - Harlaw
North - probably House Ryswell (which can rely on Lady Barbry too) or the Manderlys
Riverlands - House Frey (House Baelish can rely on the might of the Vale)
Stormlands - House Tarth (they haven't committed any troops)
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, devilish said:

The Vale - House Royce
The Reach - House Hightower
Dorne - House Yronwood
Westerlands - Lannister of Lannisport
Iron islands - Harlaw
North - probably House Ryswell (which can rely on Lady Barbry too) or the Manderlys
Riverlands - House Frey (House Baelish can rely on the might of the Vale)
Stormlands - House Tarth (they haven't committed any troops)
 

Um...they are number one, not? This is about second strongest families.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Quellon said:

I didn't know they were still in the game.

Monford Velaryon seems brash and ballsy enough to threaten Stannis with leaving with his levies at the start of A Clash of Kings, which makes me think that the Velaryons enjoy a bit more respect than the (male) heirless House Stokeworth, the nigh-extinct House Hollard, and relatively unmentioned Houses throughout the Crownlands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ser Frasier of House Crane said:

Considering how many diffuse branches of the Lannister family there are, it's pretty slim pickings to go for a house that isn't extinct or the Cleganes. And I'd think that its ancient pedigree would benefit it somewhat.

I don't think that it works like that. The way I see it the power is based on the money and the men a House has and not on how old a House is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I don't think that it works like that. The way I see it the power is based on the money and the men a House has and not on how old a House is.

Fair point. And I did forget about House Lefford, which surely should be in contention as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Quellon said:

Um...they are number one, not? This is about second strongest families.

Lannisters of CR and Lannisport are separate, but closely related, houses. Much as the Starks and Karstarks are, but with the same name. Since the Reynes and Tarbecks were killed and Tywin governed the Westerlands with a strong hand, there has been no real contender to their power. So it probably is their cousins from Lannisport. Beyond that then the Marbrands, maybe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should be tired of pointing it out by now, but can't let it stand uncorrected.

House Manderly was the strongest Northern vassal House by a significant margin, at the start of the series. They have the largest population in the North, have the largest army and have the most money.

Consider that House Bolton would have sent at least 500 cavalry South with Robb, and had another 600 left at the Dreadfort. Placing their cavalry strength at least at 1100. And if they sent 700-800 cavalry South with Robb, as would appear likely, then their total cavalry strength is at around 1300 or more. And yet the Manderlys are above that, even now. Add to that their larger population, and their total army size would be significantly higher than that of the Boltons.

 

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Quellon said:

Um...they are number one, not? This is about second strongest families.

House Lannister of Casterly Rock are the Great House of the Westerlands. However, House Lannister of Lannisport are a separate cadet branch. They just happen to have kept the same name unlike say the Karstarks who have differed from their Stark cousins. 

I have no issue with names already being suggested, but what about House Lannister of Darry (at least by the end of ADWD)? Would they be considered a powerful house of the Riverlands? They're new, the members of that house are young, but do they not have forces and wealth sheerly because they're Lannisters?

Edited by Ser Creep

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the start of Game of Thrones, I'd say it goes like this:

The North: House Manderly; they have the most wealth and the largest overall force.

The Riverlands: House Frey, by sheer size.

The Vale: House Royce, obviously

The Westerlands: House Lannister of Lannisport, as a lot of the other families seem to be on a similar level to each other (Brax, Lefford, Crakehall and Marbrand, for example) and none coming anywhere near the level of the Lannister branches.

The Crownlands: House Velaryon, I guess.

The Stormlands: House Swann? We don't know much but the marcher lords seem to be the most powerful houses militarily and the Swann's; situated on a river mouth and (having looked at the map) more land than the others; would seem to be the most powerful economically too.

The Reach: Hightower's, by far. They have the money, the political position, the Citadel is right there, the Faith seems to be mainly based between there and KL, they can raise more troops than any two noble house's from any other region can combined. While the Redwyne fleet is formidable, the Hightower's take this one.

Dorne: Yronwood, almost certainly

Iron Islands: Harlaw (close relations with the Greyjoy's and strong in their own right) or Goodbrother (who control the largest island and can most likely raise the largest force)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I should be tired of pointing it out by now, but can't let it stand uncorrected.

House Manderly was the strongest Northern vassal House by a significant margin, at the start of the series. They have the largest population in the North, have the largest army and have the most money.

Consider that House Bolton would have sent at least 500 cavalry South with Robb, and had another 600 left at the Dreadfort. Placing their cavalry strength at least at 1100. And if they sent 700-800 cavalry South with Robb, as would appear likely, then their total cavalry strength is at around 1300 or more. And yet the Manderlys are above that, even now. Add to that their larger population, and their total army size would be significantly higher than that of the Boltons.

 

People consider the Boltons the second strongest house because they have been the Starks' rivals for thousands of years. 

Common sense and evidence says that the Manderlys are the second most powerful House after the Starks(as far as I'm concerned the Starks still rule the North)because of their wealth, city, population and land. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would suggest you first agree to common terms and conditions to answer that question.

Do we discuss the strength at the beginning of the series or at the end of book 5?

What does strength mean? Military power (army and navy)? Economics? Wealth? Influence? Claims? All together?

Without a precise question you'll get a lot of different answers!

A side question: are the Lannisters of Lannisport a Great House in the Westerlands with bannerman of their own or more or less landed knights ruling only the city proper?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mander said:

I would suggest you first agree to common terms and conditions to answer that question.

Do we discuss the strength at the beginning of the series or at the end of book 5?

What does strength mean? Military power (army and navy)? Economics? Wealth? Influence? Claims? All together?

Without a precise question you'll get a lot of different answers!

A side question: are the Lannisters of Lannisport a Great House in the Westerlands with bannerman of their own or more or less landed knights ruling only the city proper?

I'd say a major noble family like Manderly or Bolton from the North, or the Hightower's from the Reach. They probably have quite a lot of landed knights and petty lords sworn to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The North - Manderly

The Riverlands - Frey

The Westerlands - Lefford

The Vale - Royce

The Crownlands - Velaryon

The Reach - Hightower

The Stormlands - Dondarrion

Dorne - Yronwood

Iron Islands - Harlaw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now