US politics: Donny, you're out of your element

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

8 hours ago, theguyfromtheVale said:

Well, I guess one can have sympathy for Milo's younger self while still despising what he has turned into.

Yeah, he does seem to be a product of a fucked-up childhood for sure. Came across a really good Esquire article regarding his rise and fall...

 http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a53306/who-is-milo/?src=socialflowTW

[Kalbear]

3 hours ago, dmc515 said:

Obviously no one should be surprised Trump is going to use as much unilateral and executive action as possible to effect change on immigration policy considering that was the bedrock of his campaign.  What I attempted to point out was that while deportations are obviously going to increase, any sweeping change - e.g. building the wall or deporting 2-3 million undocumenteds in, say, a year rather than the two terms it took Obama to deport 2.5 million - would require funding from Congress.  And that even goes for aspects of the DHS memos:

For some aspects, sure. For others - like having deportation camps, or allowing for expedited deportation to countries that they don't even know you come from, or using local law enforcement to enforce deportation orders, or sending people over to Mexico before their court hearing - none of these cost anything new and are well within the DHS boundaries.

And we know this because the DHS is already doing them. 

3 hours ago, dmc515 said:

Link.  Moreover, the larger point was Trump would encounter significant difficulty navigating the legislative arena in spite of enjoying unified government.  How's his legislative agenda looking thus far?  At this point in Obama's first year he had already signed the stimulus bill into law five days ago.

Trump has signed as many bills into effect as Obama has in his first few days. Per 538, Trump is right on pace with basically everyone else. And given that congress simply has to fund these things and that does not require anything more than a simple majority, there's no good indication that he won't get these DHS fundings if he wants them (as they require no new laws, merely budget). 

[Kalbear]

12 hours ago, Altherion said:

They're getting practical sympathy -- they've taken over certain sectors of the economy so there's no way to actually get rid of all of them on a short time scale and everybody knows it. And while this is indeed a nation of immigrants, but it is also a nation with a long history of resistance to immigration.

Everyone does not, actually, know that. Point in fact, much of the rural areas with almost no immigration or refugees believe these are all criminals who must leave right now, and that the country will be better off - and these are who Trump listens to and supports. 

12 hours ago, Altherion said:

I don't believe that they'll be rounded up in camps -- the associations are too recent and you're right, it will create a lot of sympathy.

And yet the actual order calls for this. You keep doing this - you keep saying that you don't believe something will happen, and then it happens. 

12 hours ago, Altherion said:

All of them stay because the conditions are calibrated to be marginally better than what they'd have back home. It's a brilliant setup from the perspective of the capitalists: this not only gets them effectively third world labor in their native country, but also the opportunity to piously say things like "We're not taking any jobs away from Americans because no Americans want to do these jobs."

That's really not remotely what the case is. Half of undocumented immigrants in the US haven't  been 'home' in more than 10 years. They don't have a marginal life - they have good jobs, go to school, are part of the community, own houses, own cars, own businesses. The notion that undocumented immigrants are just living in near-poverty no matter what is one of the least educated, most prejudiced views that continue to exist - it is the 2010 version of the welfare queen talk of Reagan. And yes, there are absolutely some who are exploited and are as you describe - but it certainly isn't most. 

[Fez]

22 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Trump has signed as many bills into effect as Obama has in his first few days. Per 538, Trump is right on pace with basically everyone else. And given that congress simply has to fund these things and that does not require anything more than a simple majority, there's no good indication that he won't get these DHS fundings if he wants them (as they require no new laws, merely budget). 

That's a bad analysis because it ignores the content of the bills. By this point in Obama's presidency he had signed the stimulus bill (ARRA) and the Lily Ledbetter act. And while Bush hadn't signed No Child Left Behind yet, Congress took a while on that one, he'd already proposed the core bill and it was being debated.

Trump has signed the Sec. Def waiver, a resolution striking down a relatively minor EPA rule, and a bill allowing the GAO easier access to certain agency documents (not sure of the details on that one, but it passed unanimously). 

[S John]

32 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Climate change, with shorter and warmer winters also affect the bacteria and insect populations, the ones that infect us with deadly diseases and eat our food.  For example, long, freezing winters kills the mosquito larvae -- the same mosquitos that bring malaria and other diseases.  We don't seem to realize how quickly an epidemic can disrupt EVERYTHING.  Put some wide-killing disease running rampant -- globally -- along with drought and flood and think of the disruptions everywhere of food supply, not to mention safe drinking water.

I wouldn't put any bets on the US being shielded from any of this in any damn year including this one, particularly at the rate in which the rainforest habitats are being destroyed and replaced with people, whether in luxury condos or palm oil plantations.  These habitats harbor bacteria and viruses in vectors that are facing fewer and fewer barriers between them and the human population.

The first law is that everything is interconnected.

I am worried about the summer both for heat and mosquitoes.  There is a creek behind my house and the mosquitoes make my yard uninhabitable for about 50% of the year even if it wasn't so brutally hot as to make being outdoors miserable to begin with.  I've seen several of the blood-sucking little fuckers even over the cooler months.  

There was a period of 2 days in January where the temperature ventured below freezing in central Tx and other than those two day's it has pretty much been highs in the 70's and 80's since the temperature came down out of the 90's and 100's at the end of September.  And last year was also basically sans-winter as well.  It's going to be 87 degrees today, 88 tomorrow... in February.  I was outside a few minutes ago and trees are blooming and some of the wildflowers are starting to come up, pretty much a whole month early.  

I think about that sort of thing from time to time since it hasn't been cold enough down here in 2 years to properly wipe out the mosquitoes.  Wouldn't take much for a mosquito borne illness to really get out of hand.

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, Fez said:

That's a bad analysis because it ignores the content of the bills. By this point in Obama's presidency he had signed the stimulus bill (ARRA) and the Lily Ledbetter act. And while Bush hadn't signed No Child Left Behind yet, Congress took a while on that one, he'd already proposed the core bill and it was being debated.

Trump has signed the Sec. Def waiver, a resolution striking down a relatively minor EPA rule, and a bill allowing the GAO easier access to certain agency documents (not sure of the details on that one, but it passed unanimously). 

It's not a bad analysis, it's just potentially incomplete. The important point to consider is that him signing no major laws so far does not mean that things aren't working well or that he isn't going to work well with congress, and implying such is almost certainly going to be wrong. Relying on congress and Trump not getting along despite the record so far - where there have been zero vetos and only one failure of a cabinet pick despite the sheer incompetence and brazen corruption of said picks - is going to lead to a bad time. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

 

I'm a bit of a sweater by nature. Accordingly, I'm not looking forward to all this heat.

 

If the cost of @Fez and I having warmer winters is you having to deal with perpetual swampa**, then sorry I'm not sorry. Go buy some baby wipes, bruh!

[Fez]

10 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

It's not a bad analysis, it's just potentially incomplete. The important point to consider is that him signing no major laws so far does not mean that things aren't working well or that he isn't going to work well with congress, and implying such is almost certainly going to be wrong. Relying on congress and Trump not getting along despite the record so far - where there have been zero vetos and only one failure of a cabinet pick despite the sheer incompetence and brazen corruption of said picks - is going to lead to a bad time. 

There has been a historic lack of legislative initatives by this White House so far; that is worth noting. It is also worth noting that with so many important executive branch positions currently open, most without even a nominee in place yet, the White House doesn't even have the people in place to help push along most legislation. Which means Congress is mostly on its own trying to develop bills, and that almost never works out; we're seeing that right now with all the arguing over the border tax and an inability to even figure out what the goals of an ACA replacement should be (to say nothing of how to pay for it).

The only way I see a lot of stuff getting done is if Trump lands on specific proposals and pushes Congress to pass them; which is something he has shown no inclination to do since first announcing he running back in 2015.

And the thing is, we do have a modern precedent for a President with congressional majorities getting very little done because they never all got on the same page: Carter. So this isn't unthinkable.

[Kalbear]

Ya know, intellectually I understand how bad he is, but then I read an article like this and get outraged all over again at how completely unsuitable Trump actually is.

Quote

 

The in-person touch is also important to keeping Trump from running too hot. One Trump associate said it’s important to show Trump deference and offer him praise and respect, as that will lead him to more often listen. And If Trump becomes obsessed with a grudge, aides need to try and change the subject, friends say. Leaving him alone for several hours can prove damaging, because he consumes too much television and gripes to people outside the White House.

Part of the current problem is Trump is still adjusting to his new circumstances and has plenty of time to stew over negative reviews as he spends time alone in the evenings and early mornings as his wife, Melania Trump, continues living in New York as his youngest son, Barron, finishes the school year.

 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Ya know, intellectually I understand how bad he is, but then I read an article like this and get outraged all over again at how completely unsuitable Trump actually is.

 Can you imagine how fucking frustrating it would be to have to babysit this asshole? You couldn't pay me enough.

[Savannah]

10 hours ago, mormont said:

Very wise.

Ah. You realise that the person you're quoting doesn't speak for the Swedish police, or anyone other than himself, and that he doesn't give any official facts or figures, instead giving an anecdotal account: and so he is, in effect, a 'random guy on the internet'? True, one who happens to be a Swedish policeman - but there's a difference between working for the Swedish police and being the Swedish police.

I'm comforted by the fact, though, that you would rather take the word of the Swedish police than believe this one guy's ramblings. The official figures released by the Swedish police, after all, present a markedly different picture.

Blimey. 
 You might be right, maybe I did mess up my English. 
Calling Peter Springare a random guy, though, is really disingenuous from you.
Here, let's try again. 

I'd rather take a Swedish police officer's word for what happens in Sweden, than some random  guy's on the internet. The Local: 

"A Swedish police officer has caused controversy after he made a Facebook post claiming that the majority of the cases he deals with in a week come from people whose country of origin is not Sweden, leading to an internal police investigation of him, and even provoking Prime Minister Stefan Löfven to respond.
In the post, Peter Springare lists what he claims to be the countries of origin and names of those he dealt with while carrying out preliminary investigations of suspected crimes in Örebro, noting that what he posted "is not politically correct" but that he "doesn't give a shit".
"Suspected perpetrators: Ali Mohamad, Mahmod, Mohammed, Mohammed, Ali, again, again, again, Christoffer… what, is it true? Yes, a Swedish name sneaked its way in on the fringes of a drug related crime, Mohammed, Mahmod Ali, again and again," Springare wrote.
"Countries which represent all of the week's crimes: Iraq, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, Somalia, Syria again, Somalia, unknown country, unknown country, Sweden," he added. Springare then promised to make new posts on the subject every week.
"

[Frog Eater]

6 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Ya know, intellectually I understand how bad he is, but then I read an article like this and get outraged all over again at how completely unsuitable Trump actually is.

 

maybe he should go to New York with Melania, you know, until the school year is out. Just let Mike Pence and Paul Ryan run things. They can fedex things to Trump that need signed, etc. Melania would need to take his phone away so he wouldnt be on twitter 24/7, let him do phone interviews on Fox once every other day. Let him do a rally once a month. Trump would be happy, and the white house would be better for it. 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, S John said:

I am worried about the summer both for heat and mosquitoes.  There is a creek behind my house and the mosquitoes make my yard uninhabitable for about 50% of the year even if it wasn't so brutally hot as to make being outdoors miserable to begin with.  I've seen several of the blood-sucking little fuckers even over the cooler months.  

There was a period of 2 days in January where the temperature ventured below freezing in central Tx and other than those two day's it has pretty much been highs in the 70's and 80's since the temperature came down out of the 90's and 100's at the end of September.  And last year was also basically sans-winter as well.  It's going to be 87 degrees today, 88 tomorrow... in February.  I was outside a few minutes ago and trees are blooming and some of the wildflowers are starting to come up, pretty much a whole month early.  

I think about that sort of thing from time to time since it hasn't been cold enough down here in 2 years to properly wipe out the mosquitoes.  Wouldn't take much for a mosquito borne illness to really get out of hand.

Which is why when we get a period of below freezing weather I rejoice and don't complain! But the winters are warmer over all and shorter, even here, on the very humid, mosquito-loving mid-Atlantic coast.  Fortunately, so far, we have still gotten a stretch of days in which the temperatures never got up to 32 degrees.  I don't even want to talk about -- cockroaches!

 

[Zorral]

10 minutes ago, Frog Eater said:

maybe he should go to New York with Melania, you know, until the school year is out. Just let Mike Pence and Paul Ryan run things. They can fedex things to Trump that need signed, etc. Melania would need to take his phone away so he wouldnt be on twitter 24/7, let him do phone interviews on Fox once every other day. Let him do a rally once a month. Trump would be happy, and the white house would be better for it. 

Except -- well, he's gonna be in NYC for the first weekend since the inauguration.  Massive protests are being organized. Not to mention how much we get charged every time he's here (like Miami Beach is learning -- he's really bad for the budget and for business).

Also M has no influence over him -- she's terrified.  As well all her obsession is for her kid, about which, according the rules of good behavior I cannot speak.  But people at dinner tables do speak, and these are people who due to circumstances, actually know what they are speaking of

 

[Frog Eater]

1 minute ago, Zorral said:

Except -- well, he's gonna be in NYC for the first weekend since the inauguration.  Massive protests are being organized.

 

those will quiet down once everyone sees how much better things are with him in New York and not in the White House. 

[Sivin]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Idk man, I'm really digging this 60 degree Minnesota winter weather....

Heresy! The North Remembers... Winter.

It used to come.

[Zorral]

1 minute ago, Frog Eater said:

those will quiet down once everyone sees how much better things are with him in New York and not in the White House. 

Eternal optimist, hey?

[Frog Eater]

15 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Eternal optimist, hey?

I have to be.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Betsy DeVos - Unlikely Voice of Something or Another?

[Martell Spy]

Quote

 

Collins also said Wednesday she was open to issuing subpoenas for Donald Trump’s tax returns to determine if the president has financial ties to Russia.

“I don't know whether we will need to do that,” she said. “If it's necessary to get to the answers then I suspect that we would.”

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/mike-flynn-russia-ties-investigation-235272

GOP senator wants Flynn to testify on Russia ties