Unchained Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 On 2/21/2017 at 1:31 PM, XIIIsnow said: I just red a bunch of topics considering ToJ and specially how the hell Ned knew where to find Lyanna and who told him. I know that ToJ was posted like zillion times, but I have some question that I didn't find answer and hope that you are going to help me with it. 1. What happened to Robert during the RR? One of the reasons for RR was alleged kidnapping and raping of Lyanna by Rhaegar. If he was so madly in love, why didn't he was there with his hammer to knock down the ToJ brick by brick ? I assume, that is because Ned never told him about his plans to go after Lyanna with his northernmen, until it was actually over. We know that Ned and Robert was quarreling about Targaryen children and that book said they were at piece only when Lyanna died, because of their loss. So, Robert probably didn't know that Ned left after lifting the siege of Storms End to Dorne. 2. Is it because there were no time for informing Robert, or Ned did his duty at Storms End and left, angry with his friend and now king Robert? 3. If KG was at ToJ to protect the child, why the hell they fight with Ned who is that child uncle. Everyone in the world knew how much he loves his sister, and it's hard for me to think that KG were afraid for Lyanna and her child? Even if they feared that Ned is going to give the child to Robert, out of his duty and honor, they actually never tried to talk to him. The only answer I can come up with is that KG fought Ned and his men, not because protecting the child and mother, but because they were bound to king (Aerys/Rhaegar) and they were willing to fight to the bitter end, even if they knew that war is over, that most of Targaryens (at least those capable of rule) were dead. 4. I was never sure how does the KG works? Is it like NW? In that case they had to obey their new king, regardless how he came to the throne. Or were they in bond with king personally, Aerys in this case? It's all very confusing - we have Jamie, a kingslayer, a false brother on one hand, and Barristan who fought, lost and stayed in Robert's guard. 5. I saw on other topics, that some people think that Rhaegar himself provided Ned an info of Lyanna's whereabouts. In that case, if it's even possible, his KG would have to let him pass. What do u guys think of it? It is quite possible, this was already addressed somewhere on the forum, but I couldn't find it. I am also leaving the possibility that I missed something in the books, which were obvious to others. I think the KG took a dive. The halfhand lost to Jon on purpose to give him the cover he needed to live and there are parallels between him and Arthur (Both are the ultimate symbol of loyalty, dedication and general badassery in their respective brotherhoods, also there is a line somewhere 'Dawn came with Quorin Halfhand'). They knew that Ned was Jon's only chance to live and by getting killed by Nes, they gave Robert no reason to question Ned's loyalty and anti-Targ cred (as you said Robert was mad at Ned for exactly the reason of not wanting to kills baby Targs). After he won Ned took Dawn to Starfall and Ashara jumped from a tower. This is a mirror of Bael the Bard's son (another young lord Stark) killing Bael in another fight that the loser did not try to win due to not wanting to be a kinslayer. After that fight Bael's son returned home with Bael's head on a spike and the young lord Stark's mom recognized it and also jumped from a tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallapino Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 There are those who believe that the TOJ showdown was orchestrated by Arthur Dayne. The proponents of the thoery believe that having fathered Jon Snow he chose to die in battle rather than face the consequences of betraying his oath as a kingsguard. It could be that he allowed himself to die. Ned, after finding the truth from Lyanna returned Dawn to Starfall where the Dayne family has kept Dawn until Jon comes of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, hallapino said: There are those who believe that the TOJ showdown was orchestrated by Arthur Dayne. The proponents of the thoery believe that having fathered Jon Snow he chose to die in battle rather than face the consequences of betraying his oath as a kingsguard. It could be that he allowed himself to die. Ned, after finding the truth from Lyanna returned Dawn to Starfall where the Dayne family has kept Dawn until Jon comes of age. I'm not sure Jon is anywhere near good enough to be considered the Sword of the Morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 37 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: I'm not sure Jon is anywhere near good enough to be considered the Sword of the Morning. Taking two men at once during training is not good enough, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 50 minutes ago, hallapino said: There are those who believe that the TOJ showdown was orchestrated by Arthur Dayne. The proponents of the thoery believe that having fathered Jon Snow he chose to die in battle rather than face the consequences of betraying his oath as a kingsguard. It could be that he allowed himself to die. Ned, after finding the truth from Lyanna returned Dawn to Starfall where the Dayne family has kept Dawn until Jon comes of age. Then maybe the quote about Rhaegar loving Lyanna would be for? Or the word that Rhaegar died saying, revealed by GRRM as "Lyanna" would be for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 16 minutes ago, MtnLion said: Taking two men at once during training is not good enough, I suppose. Tell me again which two men did Jon take out in training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 58 minutes ago, hallapino said: There are those who believe that the TOJ showdown was orchestrated by Arthur Dayne. The proponents of the thoery believe that having fathered Jon Snow he chose to die in battle rather than face the consequences of betraying his oath as a kingsguard. It could be that he allowed himself to die. Ned, after finding the truth from Lyanna returned Dawn to Starfall where the Dayne family has kept Dawn until Jon comes of age. I'm sure those people have some clever explanation why Ned bothers thinking about Rhaegar not frequenting brothels instead of Arthur, or why Rhaegar was the guy who gave Lyanna the crown of blue roses that she is constantly depicted with, instead of Arthur. And above all, why Ned thinks Arthur the shiniest example of KG evarr, when the guy broke his vows, deflowered a maiden and fathered a bastard on her, and showed no inclination to protect his king Viserys, not to mention giving his life for the king as he was supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 On 3/24/2017 at 4:17 PM, Ralphis Baratheon said: Tell me again which two men did Jon take out in training? They were not specified, but it is known among the watch that Jon would frequently train against two or more at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 4 hours ago, MtnLion said: They were not specified, but it is known among the watch that Jon would frequently train against two or more at a time. You mean the recruits at Castle Black? Most of those men are green boys that have little to no experience with combat. When he spars against someone with experience like Iron Emmett it's just one on one. Jon is a competent swordsman but I'm not sure he'll ever be on the level of a Sword of the Morning, not unless he improves a large amount in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: You mean the recruits at Castle Black? Most of those men are green boys that have little to no experience with combat. When he spars against someone with experience like Iron Emmett it's just one on one. Jon is a competent swordsman but I'm not sure he'll ever be on the level of a Sword of the Morning, not unless he improves a large amount in the next few years. Oh, you mean dead Jon is going to need to improve? Of course, if you are referring to other sources, then you need to look again, and listen to what Ramsey says about Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 2 hours ago, MtnLion said: Oh, you mean dead Jon is going to need to improve? Of course, if you are referring to other sources, then you need to look again, and listen to what Ramsey says about Jon. He can't improve as a swordsman if he's brought back to life or survives? Then he'll never be more then a competent swordsman. You do know that Jon is not even the best sword in the Night's Watch right? I'm not sure what your referring to in regards to Ramsay, they never even seen each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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