Why the ToJ showdown ever happened?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

2 minutes ago, UnFit Finlay said:

That's my point though. What's the point of them faking their deaths (and breaking their vows) as part of some elaborate plan to help Jon save the realm if Jon dies before the War for the Dawn really gets going? Surely, for this theory to have any weight, they'd have had *someone* watching over Jon and stopping him from doing any of the crazy stuff he's done, like swearing away his crown, going undercover with the Wildlings and getting sent on suicide missions, etc? The dead have risen and the Watch is both depleted and divided. Surely if there's a plan to help Jon they should be putting into practice sometime soon?

The vows is another problem. The theory basically suggests that Dayne, Whent and Hightower realised that Jon was MORE than just the King they were willing to die to protect. And that's what made them walk away from him. It just doesn't make sense to me. "Oh, he's destined to save the realm? He'll be fine then".

Ultimately, I think it's just Syrio Forel syndrome. Arthur Dayne, in particular, seems like such a cool character that people desperately wish he was still alive.

I see your point, but I can also see them thinking that if he's The Dragon that was Promised then he can't possibly die because fate, and then going off to various places to try and get things in motion that will help give him every chance of success. Usually in these theories one of the KG is Marwyn, gathering info at the Citadel about how to kill Others. 

The problem with assigning someone to watch over Jon is that it means having a lot more people involved. Let's say random NW brother #52 is going to keep an eye on Jon. Well then they need to get Mormont, or somebody else in on this to make sure #52 stays close to Jon as much as possible. Maybe Mormont could evade questions about why #52's job has changed, but that's two extra people involved even if Mormont resists the urge to tell Thorne he's an idiot and should leave Rhaegar's kid alone. The more people who know, the more likely the secret is to get out.

Syrio Forel syndrome is certainly a possibility as well. 

[The Bastards Giant Friend]

36 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

When the number of cairns corresponds to the stated number of casualties...

Isn't it stated somewhere that HR is not a greenseer?

Also, I don't think I've seen Ethan Glover listed in the thread as an option - you know, the guy who was last seen imprisoned in KL after Brandon's act, and next time we see him, he rides along with Ned and his friends. How did he get to escape KL to join the Rebels and make such close friends with Ned? And if he spent the duration of the Rebellion imprisoned as the wiki states (which may be just an educated guess), then why take him along? There is definitely some piece of information missing.

When the number of cairns built corresponds to the builders' stated number of casualties, you get less questions. It wouldn't make much sense for Ned to build 6 cairns and go back to KL and say 8 men died, or vice versa. In the same piece you quoted me from I do acknowledge that it is most likely only Ned and HR lived. I just think while we twiddle our thumbs waiting we can at least let our minds run with outlandish possibilities.
I don't know of anytime HR is stated to have/not have the greensight. (Note, I do not think he is a greenseer, but I do think he could have greensight. There is a difference, see Bran and Jojen.)

Ethan Glover! Yes, I had read that theory once before and totally forgot about it. Thank you. I would definitely say that Ethan is the most likely candidate mentioned on this thread. But I put HR as the second most likely.

[acwill07]

On 2/21/2017 at 4:23 PM, Frey family reunion said:

1.  There is no evidence that Lyanna was ever in the tower of joy.

2.  There would have been plenty of time for Ned to have told Robert.  Once again, we don't know if Eddard went to the tower of joy to find Lyanna.  My guess is Lyanna's death bed scene had already occurred before Ned set off for the tower of joy. 

3.  The tower of joy was probably not to protect a child.  If the tower of joy was named for Rhaegar's greatest love, than the tower of joy was probably intended for the same purpose that led to the Summerhall tragedy, the hatching of dragon(s).  It is very possible that one or more children were due to be sacrificed at the tower of joy to bring about this result.

4.  Yes, the Kingsguard had to obey the dictates of the king (and/or possibly the prince) no matter how much they may have morally disagreed with the decision, because to paraphrase Gerold, they swore an oath.

5.  I'm not sure when Eddard would have had a chance to speak with Rhaegar.

 

 

LOL wut?  This is an example of a fan trying to read WAY too much into something.  In fact, this whole thread was an example of that.  Lyanna was at the TOJ, and the clash between Eddard and his companions with the three Kingsguard knights definitely happened.  There is much more evidence that it happened than not.  This is going to end up being one of the most important events in the history of Westeros...

[Ygrain]

9 hours ago, The Bastards Giant Friend said:

When the number of cairns built corresponds to the builders' stated number of casualties, you get less questions. It wouldn't make much sense for Ned to build 6 cairns and go back to KL and say 8 men died, or vice versa. In the same piece you quoted me from I do acknowledge that it is most likely only Ned and HR lived. I just think while we twiddle our thumbs waiting we can at least let our minds run with outlandish possibilities.

Yeah but your forgetting that the numbers come from Ned's internal monologue, his memories, and he has no reason to lie to himself (unlike when actually talking to people, e.g. "Wylla").

As for the likelihood, GRRM was asked recently (i.e., some months back or so) if Ned and HR were the only men to leave ToJ, and he said yes. The question was phrased in this particular way to find out about possible other survivors of the fight.

[Ygrain]

- Oh, and about the need to keep Jon secret, picked by J. Stargaryen:

“So you say. If you are wrong, we need not fear. If the girl miscarries, we need not fear. If she births a daughter in place of a son, we need not fear. If the babe dies in infancy, we need not fear.”
“But if it is a boy?” Robert insisted. “If he lives?” - AGoT, Eddard VIII

 

[John Suburbs]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 0:44 PM, The Bastards Giant Friend said:

Back to #5 of OP; again, I'm surprised nobody considers that HR might be a green dreamer who knew where to find Lyanna.

There is also Rhaegar himself, who was back in KL before he marched to the Trident. He could have told Elia, who told Ashara, who told Ned. Or Ashara might have overheard, or had it from Rhaegar directly.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 2/25/2017 at 3:25 PM, John Suburbs said:

There is also Rhaegar himself, who was back in KL before he marched to the Trident. He could have told Elia, who told Ashara, who told Ned. Or Ashara might have overheard, or had it from Rhaegar directly.

Rhaegar: My lady, I have some important information for you.

Elia: Yes my lord?

Rhaegar: My girlfriend is in a tower in Dorne, in the Prince's Pass. Do me a favor and tell Ashara so she can tell Ned in case I don't make it back from the battle alive.

Elia:           


Pretty sure Ashara was dismissed from court before the war started, hence GRRM's comment about her not being nailed to the floor at Starfall during the war.

[Therae]

18 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Rhaegar: My lady, I have some important information for you.

Elia: Yes my lord?

Rhaegar: My girlfriend is in a tower in Dorne, in the Prince's Pass. Do me a favor and tell Ashara so she can tell Ned in case I don't make it back from the battle alive.

Elia:           

Ahahahaha!

(I was always kind of under the impression that Ashara was sent away from court when she began to show--I have no textual evidence to back this up, just that it's the kind of thing that happens to unwed mothers.)

[1000th Lord Commander]

On 2/22/2017 at 6:31 AM, XIIIsnow said:

I just red a bunch of topics considering ToJ and specially how the hell Ned knew where to find Lyanna and who told him. I know that ToJ was posted like zillion times, but I have some question that I didn't find answer and hope that you are going to help me with it.

1. What happened to Robert during the RR? One of the reasons for RR was alleged kidnapping and raping of Lyanna by Rhaegar. If he was so madly in love, why didn't he was there with his hammer to knock down the ToJ brick by brick ? I assume, that is because Ned never told him about his plans to go after Lyanna with his northernmen, until it was actually over. We know that Ned and Robert was quarreling about Targaryen children and that book said they were at piece only when Lyanna died, because of their loss. So, Robert probably didn't know that Ned left after lifting the siege of Storms End to Dorne. 

2. Is it because there were no time for informing Robert, or Ned did his duty at Storms End and left, angry with his friend and now king Robert? 

3. If KG was at ToJ to protect the child, why the hell they fight with Ned who is that child uncle. Everyone in the world knew how much he loves his sister, and it's hard for me to think that KG were afraid for Lyanna and her child? Even if they feared that Ned is going to give the child to Robert, out of his duty and honor, they actually never tried to talk to him. The only answer I can come up with is that KG fought Ned and his men, not because protecting the child and mother, but because they were bound to king (Aerys/Rhaegar) and they were willing to fight to the bitter end, even if they knew that war is over, that most of Targaryens (at least those capable of rule) were dead. 

4. I was never sure how does the KG works? Is it like NW? In that case they had to obey their new king, regardless how he came to the throne. Or were they in bond with king personally, Aerys in this case? It's all very confusing  - we have Jamie, a kingslayer, a false brother on one hand, and Barristan who fought, lost and stayed in Robert's guard.

5. I saw on other topics, that some people think that Rhaegar himself provided Ned an info of Lyanna's whereabouts. In that case, if it's even possible, his KG would have to let him pass. 

What do u guys think of it?

It is quite possible, this was already addressed somewhere on the forum, but I couldn't find it. I am also leaving the possibility that I missed something in the books, which were obvious to others.

1. I think Robert was more infuriated by Rhaegar then in love with Lyanna. After the Sack, we know that Ned rode south where he relieved the siege, then further into Dorne where he found the tower of Joy. I got the impression that while this happened, Robert was at King's Landing. Its probable that Robert stayed there becasue of the wound he got at the Trident, or being preoccupied with the Targaryens on Dragonstone. He's probably sending ravens to everyone from the Red Keep, seeing who is left to fight.

The other point is that no one knows where Lyanna is. She could have been shipped off to Dragonstone, or off to somewhere like Driftmark. I assume that Ned finds out somewhere on his trip, and moves to grab her before she can be killed out of spite. I don't buy the theory that Varys told Ned where she was before he left, Varys doesn't know everything. I wonder if he goes to Starfall, learns from Ashara where they are, goes to the Tower, kills Arthur among other things, goes back to Starfall to give Dawn back. I also wouldn't mind knowing where Ned left his army.

2. I assume that Ned didn't bother telling Robert about what he had learned until after the showdown. Once he learns that he is the closest force to Lyanna, no need to mention it until he finds out what condition she is in.

3. There's a theory which states that the KG allowed themselves to be killed after Ned's retainers, to ensure that no one knows about the child's parentage. They just missed Howland reed. Not quite sure on this one. I wouldn't mind knowing what thier plans were after Lyanna gave birth. Flee to Starfall? The Free Cities? Dragonstone?

4. The KG isn't quite like the NW, they are sworn to thier king. Clearly, the three at the ToJ don't see Robert as thier king, but a usurper. Note the Dance, where the Arryk twins end up sworn to seperate rulers.

5. I doubt this one too. Rheagar didn't trust Ned that much

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

11 minutes ago, 1000th Lord Commander said:

<snip

 I wonder if he goes to Starfall, learns from Ashara where they are, goes to the Tower, kills Arthur among other things, goes back to Starfall to give Dawn back.

I also wouldn't mind knowing where Ned left his army.

<snip

 

That would stink to ride right past where his sister is, travel past High Hermitage, and all the way to Starfall only to have to turn around and go all the way back to the ToJ.

He probably didn't leave it so much as disband it, and likely that was done at or near Storm's End. The war was over for the most part. Could be he had more men with him but lost some in minor skirmishes with loyalist troops who hadn't heard the news of Robert's victory yet, and that's why he ended up with only six men with him when he finally found Lyanna.

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Could be he had more men with him but lost some in minor skirmishes with loyalist troops who hadn't heard the news of Robert's victory yet, and that's why he ended up with only six men with him when he finally found Lyanna.

That would be a weird accident which left him only with his faithful friends, and if he had lost more such friends between SE and ToJ, I believe they would have received a honorary mention. Looks more like selected few to me, after sending the army home.

[Nocturne]

The more i think about it, the more i suspect Varys is at fault for this showdown. He has a vast spy network, he can spread false rumours like no other right?

Well you're Arthur Dayne, you receive word that uncle creepy is coming for his sisters baby...u have to fight him at this point, it makes total sense.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

16 hours ago, Ygrain said:

That would be a weird accident which left him only with his faithful friends, and if he had lost more such friends between SE and ToJ, I believe they would have received a honorary mention. Looks more like selected few to me, after sending the army home.

Yes, the carefully selected crew is more likely.

13 hours ago, Nocturne said:

The more i think about it, the more i suspect Varys is at fault for this showdown. He has a vast spy network, he can spread false rumours like no other right?

Well you're Arthur Dayne, you receive word that uncle creepy is coming for his sisters baby...u have to fight him at this point, it makes total sense.

And who trained ravens to fly to a usually uninhabited tower in the middle of Nowhere, Dorne? Or do you think he sent it to High Hermitage, trusting Darkstar or his family to see that Cousin Arthur got the message? Cause that could work.

But how would Uncle Creepy know there was a baby? Being gone for that long a time means it's possible but not that it's definite.

[John Suburbs]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 7:11 PM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Rhaegar: My lady, I have some important information for you.

Elia: Yes my lord?

Rhaegar: My girlfriend is in a tower in Dorne, in the Prince's Pass. Do me a favor and tell Ashara so she can tell Ned in case I don't make it back from the battle alive.

Elia:           


Pretty sure Ashara was dismissed from court before the war started, hence GRRM's comment about her not being nailed to the floor at Starfall during the war.

Well, we don't know what the relationship between Rhaegar and Elia was like. And as I also posted, he might have told Ashara directly.

Ashara was lady-in-waiting to Elia, so she would have been in the capital until Elia died and thus not "nailed to the floor at Starfall." I don't see anything to suggest she was dismissed early, but if you have something along those lines please share.

Plus, if Rhaegar was kidnapped along with Lyanna and Jon is not his but, say, Aerys', then there wouldn't be any friction between him and Elia.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

1 minute ago, John Suburbs said:

Well, we don't know what the relationship between Rhaegar and Elia was like. And as I also posted, he might have told Ashara directly.

Ashara was lady-in-waiting to Elia, so she would have been in the capital until Elia died and thus not "nailed to the floor at Starfall." I don't see anything to suggest she was dismissed early, but if you have something along those lines please share.

It's known that Ashara was dismissed from service at court. We don't know the exact time, but it was definitely before Elia was killed. Everyone seems to think she had a child, so it's a given that she was sent home from court over that if nothing else.  

The general understanding is that she was dismissed either over what happened at Harrenhal, or when it became known that she was pregnant. No matter how pregnancy outside of wedlock was viewed in Dorne, the royal court would not allow women who allowed any question of their virtue to serve the wife of the future king. That's standard medieval court protocol. When Ashara's pregnancy started to show--if not before--she would have been out of there. And when a lady is dismissed from the court she is sent home...especially if she's pregnant. 

If, as is often suggested, Ashara got pregnant at Harrenhal, then she would have been dismissed from Elia's service before the war started.

There is no point in the author talking about her not being "nailed to the floor at Starfall" unless she was at Starfall during the war or most of it.

Fun note: Joanna Lannister was dismissed from being one of Rhaella's ladies-in-waiting at one point. Don't know whether that was because she was messing around with Aerys, or to protect her from him because he wanted to mess around with her. 

[John Suburbs]

4 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

It's known that Ashara was dismissed from service at court. We don't know the exact time, but it was definitely before Elia was killed. Everyone seems to think she had a child, so it's a given that she was sent home from court over that if nothing else.  

The general understanding is that she was dismissed either over what happened at Harrenhal, or when it became known that she was pregnant. No matter how pregnancy outside of wedlock was viewed in Dorne, the royal court would not allow women who allowed any question of their virtue to serve the wife of the future king. That's standard medieval court protocol. When Ashara's pregnancy started to show--if not before--she would have been out of there. And when a lady is dismissed from the court she is sent home...especially if she's pregnant. 

If, as is often suggested, Ashara got pregnant at Harrenhal, then she would have been dismissed from Elia's service before the war started.

There is no point in the author talking about her not being "nailed to the floor at Starfall" unless she was at Starfall during the war or most of it.

Fun note: Joanna Lannister was dismissed from being one of Rhaella's ladies-in-waiting at one point. Don't know whether that was because she was messing around with Aerys, or to protect her from him because he wanted to mess around with her. 

Interesting, but how do we know all of this? I can't find any text on the matter, and even the wiki is silent on her activities from Harrenhal to Starfall.

AFAIK, the only mention of her having a child is from Barriston, and it doesn't seem as if he wasn't all that close to her to know the truth of what happened at Harrenhal, let alone whether she bore a child at Starfall. All he has is what he's heard from others.

My rule of thumb is to be cautious when interpreting events in ASOIAF based on the "general understanding" of the readers. It's usually wrong.

 

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

Interesting, but how do we know all of this? I can't find any text on the matter, and even the wiki is silent on her activities from Harrenhal to Starfall.

AFAIK, the only mention of her having a child is from Barriston, and it doesn't seem as if he wasn't all that close to her to know the truth of what happened at Harrenhal, let alone whether she bore a child at Starfall. All he has is what he's heard from others.

My rule of thumb is to be cautious when interpreting events in ASOIAF based on the "general understanding" of the readers. It's usually wrong.

 

Now scratching my head wondering where we all got this info. Maybe an SSM? I'll have to do some looking and see if I can find anything.

While I agree that Barristan only knows what he was told, he's not the only one who mentions Ashara having a baby.

Cersei wonders whether Ashara is Jon's mother, which would make no sense unless she knew Ashara was pregnant, which she would have either known from the gossip after Harrenhal or heard from Jaime, because he was at court even after Tywin took Cersei back to Casterly Rock. Jaime would have been at court when Ashara was dismissed, though probably not in the room when she was told she had to leave.

I agree with your rule of thumb but I stand by my assessment that the only reason for GRRM to emphasize that she could leave Starfall during the war is if she was at Starfall during the war. It's possible that his statement combined with the pregnancy rumors had people guessing that she was dismissed, because obviously she was at Starfall during at least the latter part of the war, and was there when Ned showed up with Dawn.

Where do you stand on her alleged suicide?

 

[SFDanny]

On 2/21/2017 at 11:31 AM, XIIIsnow said:

I just red a bunch of topics considering ToJ and specially how the hell Ned knew where to find Lyanna and who told him. I know that ToJ was posted like zillion times, but I have some question that I didn't find answer and hope that you are going to help me with it.

1. What happened to Robert during the RR? One of the reasons for RR was alleged kidnapping and raping of Lyanna by Rhaegar. If he was so madly in love, why didn't he was there with his hammer to knock down the ToJ brick by brick ? I assume, that is because Ned never told him about his plans to go after Lyanna with his northernmen, until it was actually over. We know that Ned and Robert was quarreling about Targaryen children and that book said they were at piece only when Lyanna died, because of their loss. So, Robert probably didn't know that Ned left after lifting the siege of Storms End to Dorne. 

This is a very good reason to believe Ned does not find out about Lyanna's location before he leaves King's Landing. We have some evidence that someone in King's Landing had discovered where Lyanna was, but if it had been known to Ned and Robert before their feud, then I agree there would have been nothing that could have stopped Robert from riding to the Tower of Joy. 

The evidence for someone telling the secret of Lyanna's location is the fact Hightower finds them. Finding the Tower of Joy in all the vastness of Westeros by accident is not credible. Someone had to tell him, and later had to tell Ned, where to look.

On 2/21/2017 at 11:31 AM, XIIIsnow said:

2. Is it because there were no time for informing Robert, or Ned did his duty at Storms End and left, angry with his friend and now king Robert? 

We don't know how long after the sack Robert arrives in King's Landing, or how long after he arrives the coronation takes place and Ned and Robert argue. We do know Ned leaves the same day of the argument. It is likely this all happens in a very short period of time after Robert's arrival, but that still means there should have been time for Ned to tell Robert a critical piece of news about Lyanna's location before they argue. Yet Robert doesn't know.

If Ned learns the location after Ned and Robert feud over Robert's approval of Tywin's murder of Rhaegar's children, then we have the explanation of why Ned doesn't tell Robert. He can't trust Robert with the secret for fear of what his madness towards Targaryens would do if he finds out Lyanna went willingly.

More likely Ned finds out sometime after he leaves for Storm's End. Not only is it likely that Robert would have ridden directly to the Tower of Joy if he knew of Lyanna's location, but it is likely that would be Ned's reaction as well, if he hadn't already been charged with he duty of relieving the siege at Storm's End. Nothing short of leaving the Stannis and his garrison of starving men to their fate would have stopped him, in my opinion.

On 2/21/2017 at 11:31 AM, XIIIsnow said:

3. If KG was at ToJ to protect the child, why the hell they fight with Ned who is that child uncle. Everyone in the world knew how much he loves his sister, and it's hard for me to think that KG were afraid for Lyanna and her child? Even if they feared that Ned is going to give the child to Robert, out of his duty and honor, they actually never tried to talk to him. The only answer I can come up with is that KG fought Ned and his men, not because protecting the child and mother, but because they were bound to king (Aerys/Rhaegar) and they were willing to fight to the bitter end, even if they knew that war is over, that most of Targaryens (at least those capable of rule) were dead.

I think you are assuming things here based on our reading of Ned's point of view, rather than how Ned is actually viewed by others. To all other characters in the books Ned is a man who puts honor before everything else. We know from Ned's own thoughts that is not true. Ned lies and lives with those lies in order to protect the people he loves. In Maester Aemon's discussion with Jon we learn the lesson of love versus honor, and how love is the death of honor. We learn from Ned's thoughts that he has chosen love over honor. In my signature are some links to this whole discussion in the R+L=J threads. I'd invite you to read them if your interested in more of my thoughts on this subject.

Why is this important to your question? Because to the rest of the world, at this time, Ned is one of the major forces behind the rebellion. He is also the rebel commander who takes King's Landing the day the Lannisters murder Elia and her children. For the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy, and for Lyanna herself, this is not a small matter in which Ned blood relation to Lyanna can wipe away. Remember when Lyanna pleads with Ned as she lays dying, she does so with fear in her eyes. It is only after she gets Ned's promise that she dies in peace knowing her brother will do as she asked. The fear must mean she had some doubt before the promise is made. If Lyanna feared what was possible for her brother to do in his honor bound pledge of fealty to Robert, then it is no stretch to think the Kingsguard view it as their duty to protect Lyanna, and possibly her child, from Ned. As I argue in the links in my signature, I think they do view Ned as serious threat to Lyanna and her child, and they sacrifice their lives protecting them. It is the main reason Ned views these men with such high regard. He kills them, not understanding why they keep him from his sister. Ned knows he would never hurt Lyanna, but everyone else must question what he would do if his fealty to Robert is tested by his feelings for Lyanna. Even more so, if the question is between his loyalty to Robert and the safety of Rhaegar's son.

On 2/21/2017 at 11:31 AM, XIIIsnow said:

4. I was never sure how does the KG works? Is it like NW? In that case they had to obey their new king, regardless how he came to the throne. Or were they in bond with king personally, Aerys in this case? It's all very confusing  - we have Jamie, a kingslayer, a false brother on one hand, and Barristan who fought, lost and stayed in Robert's guard.

Ned's dream tells us Ned's answer to that question, if not the answer of the Kingsguard themselves. They boast of their continued loyalty to the Targaryens after Aerys's death. Even is this is just a product of a fevered dream and not the actual conversation between Ned and the Kingsguard it tells us that Ned believes that is what these men would do.

Ser Barristan and Dany both look at Selmy's decision to stay with Robert as treason. They obviously think his oath meant he should have gone to Viserys and helped him in exile.

On 2/21/2017 at 11:31 AM, XIIIsnow said:

5. I saw on other topics, that some people think that Rhaegar himself provided Ned an info of Lyanna's whereabouts. In that case, if it's even possible, his KG would have to let him pass. 

What do u guys think of it?

It is quite possible, this was already addressed somewhere on the forum, but I couldn't find it. I am also leaving the possibility that I missed something in the books, which were obvious to others.

Rhaegar is already dead when Ned arrives on the scene at the Trident. I don't see how they could have communicated anything between them. Again, I think it likely that Ned finds out Lyanna's location after he leaves King's Landing. At Storm's End is a good bet.

And, yes, this has been discussed over and over again, but that's no reason not to discuss it once more. Most topics have been discussed before, but new people sometimes bring new things to the discussion.

[Ygrain]

4 minutes ago, SFDanny said:

The evidence for someone telling the secret of Lyanna's location is the fact Hightower finds them. Finding the Tower of Joy in all the vastness of Westeros by accident is not credible. Someone had to tell him, and later had to tell Ned, where to look.

Aye but that someone telling Hightower may not have been the same as the someone telling Ned, because we don't know if Hightower went directly to ToJ from KL. For instance, he may have gone to Starfall to look for clues with the Daynes. Or, if some communication had taken place between Rhaegar and Aerys, he might have been directed to come to a certain place and receive further isntructions there, which would leave everyone in KL in the dark.

[SFDanny]

6 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

Aye but that someone telling Hightower may not have been the same as the someone telling Ned, because we don't know if Hightower went directly to ToJ from KL. For instance, he may have gone to Starfall to look for clues with the Daynes. Or, if some communication had taken place between Rhaegar and Aerys, he might have been directed to come to a certain place and receive further isntructions there, which would leave everyone in KL in the dark.

Sorry, Ygrain, I should have made it clear I don't think it was the same person who did both. I think I said I think it likely that Ned learns of Lyanna's location after he leaves King's Landing. Someone among the loyalist forces at Storm's End? Perhaps Ashara, who we have been told is not nailed down in Starfall, or perhaps someone else who knows and wants to gain favor with the victorious rebels.