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Can Children of the Forest mate with humans?


Sea Dragon

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3 hours ago, Jadakiss said:

only george can answer this

The correct answer, the rest is speculation.

3 hours ago, DarkSister1001 said:

It's not outright stated.  But Craggonmen are described similarly like was already suggested.  And in my tinfoil world Nettles was a CoTF.  Leaf, to be specific. 

Nettles was a dragonseed.

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13 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Here is the quote from AWOIAF:

Last (and some might say the least) of the peoples of the North are the swamp-dwellers of the Neck, known as crannogmen for the floating islands on which they raise their halls and hovels. A small, sly people (some say they are small in stature because they intermarried with the children of the forest, but more likely it results from inadequate nourishment, for grains do not flourish amidst the fens and swamps and salt marshes of the Neck, and the crannogmen subsist largely upon a diet of fish, frogs, and lizards), they are quite secretive, preferring to keep to themselves.   The North:The Crannogmen of The Neck

Thanks!  I forgot about that. 

11 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Nettles was a dragonseed.

So they say.  Mwahahaha!  JK  Like I said, tinfoil.  :) 

I would like to point out to the OP that the Ibbenese had issues mating with non-Ibbenese. 

Quote

The Ibbenese stand apart from the other races of mankind. They are a heavy people, broad about the chest and shoulders, but seldom standing more than five and a half feet in height, with thick, short legs and long arms. Though short and squat, they are ferociously strong; at wrestling, their favorite sport, no man of the Seven Kingdoms can hope to equal them.

Their faces, characterized by sloping brows with heavy ridges, small sunken eyes, great square teeth, and massive jaws, seem brutish and ugly to Westerosi eyes, an impression heightened by their guttural, grunting tongue; but in truth the men of Ib are a cunning folk—skilled craftsmen, able hunters and trackers, and doughty warriors. They are the most hirsute people in the known world. Though their flesh is pale, with dark blue veins beneath the skin, their hair is dark and wiry. Ibbenese men are heavily bearded; wiry body hair covers their arms, legs, chests, and backs. Coarse dark hair is common amongst their women, even on the upper lip. (The persistent myth that Ibbenese females have six breasts has no truth to it, however.)

Though the men of Ib can father children upon the women of Westeros and other lands, the products of such unions are often malformed and inevitably sterile, in the manner of mules. Ibbenese females, when mated with men from other races, bring forth naught but stillbirths and monstrosities.

 

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15 hours ago, Luddagain said:

Sea Dragon

I share your concerns re the CoF. While mating with giants is strongly suggested eg Hodor and the Umbers and the whole World book discusses the Ibbenese etc, the CoF seem much more distinctive.

However I have read (I am not saying I agree) a scientific article that suggests humans are hybridised apes and pigs. Way out there but someone obviously thinks it possible!!!!!

However if a great dane and a chihuahua can interbreed!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

15 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Duuuuude. That would be an awful mix :lol: I have two female Danes and one boy pug dog. I made sure the little puggy was fixed when ready so I did not end up with little, trendy, "Great Panes". ;)

About the topic at hand... I don't know if the CotF and humans can mate. I know I have seen it mentioned as well, but they seem too genetically different to me for it to work. Danes and pug dogs are at least both canines :P However, we could read something different in TWOW and that will be ok.

I just saw a Great Dane/Corgi Mix at the vet today. Strange things are possible 

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I doubt they can mate. Possibly, in the past, there we're a few successful births between the races. Lann the Clever could have been a hybrid. Maybe Bran the Builder too.  :dunno:

I share freyfamilyreunion's idea that the crannogmen are early day Rhoynish migrants. Even the Rhoynish-Dornish are somewhat smaller in stature than the Andal/First Men-Dornish. Even if some of them mingled with the cotf, I doubt an entire people came from such a small stock of interbreeding.  

Maybe they just ate each other's blood paste?

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Only one way to find out.

 

 

8 hours ago, DarkSister1001 said:

I would like to point out to the OP that the Ibbenese had issues mating with non-Ibbenese.

The Ibbenese sound a lot like Neanderthals, other than that they cannot mate with humans.

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15 minutes ago, aDanceWithFlagons said:

How did Leaf hang out in the land of Men for 200 years while staying incognito? Some sort of old powers glamour?

IMO, yes.  I think she may have let her guard down around her lover.  She really wasn't seen that often.  It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities. 

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On 21/02/2017 at 8:06 PM, Luddagain said:

I rather think there is a strong suggestion that crannogmen have some CoF in their make up

I tend to think the same. Sometimes...

@Sea Dragon,

I keep going back and forth on the possibility of humans and CotF mating... And when I'm having a "yes, they can!" moment, the crannogmen are a big part of how I got to that moment. 

Many years ago I speculated that the gift of skinchanging was bestowed or passed on to some of the FM lineages of old by the CotF. This would have been around the time of the Pact. And one of the options for this to happen was a mingling of genes. I still think something like this may have happened, but I lean more towards this mingling occurring magically somehow, and not through traditional mating. 

 

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20 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

The correct answer, the rest is speculation.

Nettles was a dragonseed.

Alleged. Nobody knows for sure, but it certainly fits the Targ propaganda that only they can ride dragons now.

By the way @Sea Dragon Nettles was a character who lived during the Dance of the Dragons. She tamed a dragon named Sheepstealer by feeding it sheep and became a dragonrider for the Blacks. It's unknown what happened to her but many suspect she survived and there's a reference somewhere to a fire witch in the Vale among the mountain clans (I forget whether she had a dragon but I think that was part of it). Nettles is mentioned in the novella The Princess and the Queen.

I'd say yes it is possible, but it's by no means proven. Even info in TWOIAF is subject to error. That's why Martin had it having been "written" by a maester. Author bias and just plain wrong information could be in anything in TWOIAF. That tricksy Martinses.(insert Gollum emoji)

Now, on to the magical aspects (and leaving Chihuahuas out) it is said that Wildling women lay with Others during the Long Night and had terrible half-human children. Night's Queen, if she ever existed could well have been one of those half-humans. If that's possible, certainly CotF-human hybrids would be possible. But again, we don't know.

21 minutes ago, aDanceWithFlagons said:

How did Leaf hang out in the land of Men for 200 years while staying incognito? Some sort of old powers glamour?

She went underground. Duh. ;)

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8 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

 

I just saw a Great Dane/Corgi Mix at the vet today. Strange things are possible 

I am sure it was a wonderfully sweet dog. I was a vert tech for years (back in dinosaur days) and you get to see all sorts of stuff come through the doors at a vets office. Just about all were sweet, sweet animals, but it was the owners you had to watch out for or get bitten!

In general, to the OP, I tend to lean more to the "no mating" side of the theory. If there was a way that the CotF gave anything to the humans, I also tend to lean to it having to do with it being a "magic" gift.

@DarkSister1001 the Ibbenese id a good example. Nice addition!

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On 2017-02-21 at 11:37 PM, Sea Dragon said:

This forum has been great for getting my questions answered. Thank you.

Now I have another question.^_^ Can Children of the Forest mate or make babies with humans? I thought the children were a different species more like woodland elves with their big yellow eyes, and deer like skin, and they don't even have the same amount of fingers. It doesn't seem possible to me, but I know a lot of you here have read the books more than I have.

Thanks again.

It seems all kinds of breeding works in mysterious ways in Planetos...

The Ibbaneese get monstrous progeny when interbreeding as does the Targs (Targs also has high risk for monstrosity even when non interbreeding, but thats probably because if their practice of strict inbreeding :huh:)

At the same time its mentioned that giant women interbred with human males, crannogmen interbreeding with CotF, ironborn with mermaids, sistermen with webbed fingers and toes and even the others having a swing at it with the nights queen.

 

Its too jumbled and too much to make any kind of sense of IMO.

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My personal take was always that yes they could and did, which is why magic seems to be more prevalent among those with the blood of the first men. In some areas this would have been more prevalent, specifically the Crannogmen, but I believe the Barrow Kings (?) were mentioned as having magic before the Starks conquered them and intermarried. This would explain the stark kids and their warging, assuming that they didn't already have magic in their lines prior to that point. It also seems to explain why magic is more or less unknown south of the wall where those with the blood of the first men have been intermarrying with the Andals now for Martin knows how long.  North of the walls where such mingling is more or less unheard of wargs are well known and accepted. They are still super rare, but haven't become mythical like they have south of the wall.

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On 2/23/2017 at 4:29 AM, Sigella said:

It seems all kinds of breeding works in mysterious ways in Planetos...

The Ibbaneese get monstrous progeny when interbreeding as does the Targs (Targs also has high risk for monstrosity even when non interbreeding, but thats probably because if their practice of strict inbreeding :huh:)

At the same time its mentioned that giant women interbred with human males, crannogmen interbreeding with CotF, ironborn with mermaids, sistermen with webbed fingers and toes and even the others having a swing at it with the nights queen.

 

Its too jumbled and too much to make any kind of sense of IMO.

No it was a human (Night's King) with Night's Queen who was possibly an Other.

The Others supposedly also bred with Wildling women during the Long Night, according to Old Nan.

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10 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

No it was a human (Night's King) with Night's Queen who was possibly an Other.

The Others supposedly also bred with Wildling women during the Long Night, according to Old Nan.

I've heard it said that the night queen is/might be hybrid human/other.

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