Why did Roose never remarried?

[devilish]

Prior to GOT, Roose was Lord of the second strongest house in the North. He was a respectable and feared Lord, the last of his name and under threat from Ramsey Snow who is rumoured to have killed his son. Roose could have easily married somebody to mitigate such threat. A bethronal between Roose and Sansa would have consolidated the Stark power over the North and would have reduced Ramsey's threat to the bare minimum. Surely not even Ramsey would dare touching a child who share blood with both Stark's and Bolton's main branch. Alternatively Wynafryd Manderly or Alys Karstark would strengthen the Bolton's stature in the North.

 

[Bonkers]

Prior to GoT Sansa was 11 years old.  I doubt Roose would have many Northern Lords swooning on him for their daughters - the Bolton's are not a hugely loved house.  Also, it was widely known that Ramsey was a psycho I think.  Generally marriage is all about alliances, but it is not one-sided (look at Lady Horwood for example).  Roose got Walda Frey because a needed alliance. 

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

Roose is over 40 years old at the start of the books, that means he is at least 28 years older then Sansa, 22 years older then Wynafryd, and 27 years older then Alys.
Now, I know in a feudal era, age difference between husband and wife is not that big of an issue, but only 1 of these 3 suggestions is able to give him any children (Wynafryd) at the beginning of the books.
Ramsey is only 2 years younger then Wynafryd, so any children would be completely defenceless against Ramsay's sadistical nature, and would most likely die in suspicious circumstances.
Roose also knows that Ramsey is a psycho. He says to Theon that he expects Ramsay to kill any children he and Walda Frey will have. Do you really think Roose never thought of having another wife to make sure he will have more children, and what do you think Ramsay would've done with those children?

Roose knows now that he is stuck with Ramsay as his heir, any other children of his will be butchered by Ramsay. He knows, therefore he also knows he shouldn't try to get any more children.

[Nocturne]

12 minutes ago, devilish said:

Prior to GOT, Roose was Lord of the second strongest house in the North. He was a respectable and feared Lord, the last of his name and under threat from Ramsey Snow who is rumoured to have killed his son. Roose could have easily married somebody to mitigate such threat. A bethronal between Roose and Sansa would have consolidated the Stark power over the North and would have reduced Ramsey's threat to the bare minimum. Surely not even Ramsey would dare touching a child who share blood with both Stark's and Bolton's main branch. Alternatively Wynafryd Manderly or Alys Karstark would strengthen the Bolton's stature in the North.

 

The whole thing about Ramsey is inconsistent to say the least. I like what GRRM did with Ramsey - Theon relationship, but it makes zero sense that Ramsey is still alive after he obviously killed Roose's son.

Roose has no use for Ramsey, he does however need a son with his name. Now if Ramsey didn't kill his son, thus obviously posing a threat to Roose himself as well (ending his line), i can see him keeping Ramsey alive as a back up plan if he doesn't get another son in the mean time.

Killing Ramsey would not matter in the eyes of nobody, he could do it publicly and invoke whatever reason he wanted, nobody would be revolted over it.

As for Roose marrying into the Stark family, that would never happen given the bad blood between houses. Don't even wanna get into how "inconsistent" with the Stark kings of old was to leave House Bolton alive.

[devilish]

27 minutes ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

Roose is over 40 years old at the start of the books, that means he is at least 28 years older then Sansa, 22 years older then Wynafryd, and 27 years older then Alys.
Now, I know in a feudal era, age difference between husband and wife is not that big of an issue, but only 1 of these 3 suggestions is able to give him any children (Wynafryd) at the beginning of the books.
Ramsey is only 2 years younger then Wynafryd, so any children would be completely defenceless against Ramsay's sadistical nature, and would most likely die in suspicious circumstances.
Roose also knows that Ramsey is a psycho. He says to Theon that he expects Ramsay to kill any children he and Walda Frey will have. Do you really think Roose never thought of having another wife to make sure he will have more children, and what do you think Ramsay would've done with those children?

Roose knows now that he is stuck with Ramsay as his heir, any other children of his will be butchered by Ramsay. He knows, therefore he also knows he shouldn't try to get any more children.

Roose is as fit as a fiddle and the Lord of the second most powerful house in the North. If Lysa can marry a pensioner then surely Sansa or Wynafryd can marry Roose. These sort of marriages are common even in today's world (ex think of Trump) let alone the feudal times.

Sansa is a Stark but she also share blood with the Tullys and the future Lord Arryn. If Roose managed to convince Ned to let him marry her, then the Boltons would suddenly have indirect alliances with 2 wardens and a LP. Not to forget that Ned is also close friend with Robert and hold Theon as ward. That means that if Ramsey dares touching Sansa or her future children then he'll barely have anywhere to run to. A preamptive action is also possible. The Trouts have that sparkle of madness in them, which activates whenever their little children are in danger. Can you imagine what Lady Cat would do if someone had to tell her that pregnant Sansa is in danger?

I can't understand Roose tbh. Ned may be Warden but the dreadfort and surroundings are firmly under his control. If Roose could rape a woman and get away with it then surely no one would give a feck if a snow suffers an accident, especially someone as cruel as Ramsey is. You wouldn't want somebody like him around. 

 

[devilish]

59 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

Prior to GoT Sansa was 11 years old.  I doubt Roose would have many Northern Lords swooning on him for their daughters - the Bolton's are not a hugely loved house.  Also, it was widely known that Ramsey was a psycho I think.  Generally marriage is all about alliances, but it is not one-sided (look at Lady Horwood for example).  Roose got Walda Frey because a needed alliance. 

It may not be loved but its an ancient and powerful house, the only one that can go toe to toe with the Starks. Roose is a proven general, someone who fought alongside Ned during Robert's rebellion and is possibly the only one in the North with brains. If anything had to happen to Ned, then the young wolf would surely need experienced people around to give him council. Brother in law Roose would be perfect for the role.

Prior to GOT, The Starks are blessed with loads of alliances and children. Ned's heir Robb is the LP of the Riverlands nephew and the Warden of the East cousin. In the past generation or so, all Starks were either promised to foreigners or sent to the wall. Ned wouldn't want his bannermen to start thinking that the Starks had become too snob to marry their bannermen. What better way does Ned have to consolidate internal power then to marry one of his daughters to his strongest bannerman, ? That would consolidate the Stark's power in the North while freeing Robb and Arya to better matchups.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, devilish said:

Roose and Sansa

I don't think that Ned would had married Sansa with Roose even if he wasn't a loving father. She was a beautiful daughter of a Great house she could do much better than a lesser Lord. 

 

I believe that he knew that Ramsey would had killed any other heir and hadn't even tried. 

[devilish]

58 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I don't think that Ned would had married Sansa with Roose even if he wasn't a loving father. She was a beautiful daughter of a Great house she could do much better than a lesser Lord. 

 

I believe that he knew that Ramsey would had killed any other heir and hadn't even tried. 

In hindsight you’re right. If Sansa was married off to lets say Willas then Robb would have easily won the war.  Robb would take Renly’s side and even if the green boy decided to put a crown over his head then I am pretty sure that Daddy in law Mace would intercede between the two until both see reason. Stormlands-Riverlands-North-Reach would be unstoppable 

Prior to GOT, the kingdom was not at war. Thanks to Cat, Ned had marital ties with both the Vale and the Riverlands which means he can’t have his daughters marry within those houses without risking interbreeding issues. Renly was pretty much hooked to Margaery Tyrell, so the Stormlands is out.  The Northerner absolutely hated the Lannisters so that boat had sailed too.  

Which leads us to the Martells, the treacherous Greyjoys whom Ned had contributed in wiping most of them and the Tyrells (strong house but they fought at Aerys side and were being treated like shit by Robert). With Robert probably marrying his firstborn to a Stark (that’s only fair considering the years of service rendered) then Ned would be better off staying away from those three houses unless he wants to see his children fighting against one another.

There's also a question of proximity. The Reach's 60k army would greatly bolster the Stark army. However if lets say the Wildlings invade or a co-alition of bannermen decide to rebel then the Starks would be relying on the bannermen around them to come to the rescue. Which leads us to my next point.

Starks had been marrying their bannermen for centuries. It was Ned’s father who broke that rule when he had Lyanna promised to Robert and Brandon promised to Cat. If Ned repeated the same mantra then he risks to disillusion his bannermen who will start wondering if their Warden thinks its beneath the Starks to join houses with them.  What better ways to consolidate power, than having Sansa marry Roose?  The Boltons are a powerful and ancient family, the only one in the North capable to go toe to toe against the Starks. Roose had, till then, been extremely loyal to Ned. He had fought alongside him during Robert’s rebellion. There’s nothing prior to GOT to suggest that he is an evil person and while Ned never trusted him, there was no reason for him to complain about his banner man. If Ned could give the go ahead to a marriage between Joffrey (From all people) and his daughter then surely he can give the same go ahead to a marriage between a powerful Northern Lord who had always shown loyalty to the Starks and his daughter.

Not to forget that with Jon Arryn being ancient, its only fair to think that Robert would soon need a new hand of the king. Sure there’s some great candidates out there (Tywin, Stannis and Renly), however its fair to think that Ned name would be in that shortlist especially since the king would be honouring him by having his son marry one of his daughters. That means that Ned would be spending most of his life in KL, a decision which will leave a big vacuum in the North. An alliance with the Boltons would facilitate the smooth running of the North as no Northern bannerman would even think going toe to toe against Starks AND Boltons.
 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Er, so that he is free to marry a Frey thus consolidating his betrayal of Robb Stark. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

38 minutes ago, devilish said:

Prior to GOT, the kingdom was not at war.

With Sansa's looks and the relationship between Ned and Robert she would had been a candidate for the Queenship.

Er, so that he is free to marry a Frey thus consolidating his betrayal of Robb Stark. 

QFT.

 

[devilish]

20 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

With Sansa's looks and the relationship between Ned and Robert she would had been a candidate for the Queenship.

QFT.

 

Joffrey would marry a Stark irrespective if she's Sansa or Arya. 

[DarkSister1001]

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I believe that he knew that Ramsey would had killed any other heir and hadn't even tried. 

Agreed. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, devilish said:

Joffrey would marry a Stark irrespective if she's Sansa or Arya. 

True. However when it comes to the Stark sisters Sansa fits better for the role of the Southern Queen Consort.

[devilish]

12 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

True. However when it comes to the Stark sisters Sansa fits better for the role of the Southern Queen Consort.

You're right, however Robert isn't the kind to care about details isn't he? His plan was to marry his stag to a she wolf. He won't care about which is which and he'll certainly wont force Ned to go back from his promise (Assuming he promised Sansa to Roose).

Also Arya pretty much resembles his beloved Lyanna while Sansa is pretty much an innocent version of Cersei. Ned would only have to say 'Arya resembles Lyanna' to warm Robert to the idea of marrying her to the crown prince. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

3 minutes ago, devilish said:

It could be the case. However Robert won't say no to Ned if he suggested Arya instead of Sansa especially if the Northerner had already given his word to marry Sansa to Roose. Robert knows Ned enough not to force him to break a promise

Also Arya pretty much resembles his beloved Lyanna while Sansa is pretty much an innocent version of Cersei. In Robert's book there's no better match for a Stag then a wild she-wolf. 

Ned knew his daughters and he knew how Arya and how Sansa was. There is no reason why he would give up his marvelous stunning daughter who would be a great and most importantly obedient wife and Queen consort for a man older than himself who had already lost two wives and one son and have one bastard. Sansa was Ned’s only chance for any kind of Southern ambitions. 

[Ser Frasier of House Crane]

I don't think Ned would've offered up his firstborn daughter (or any child) to Roose Bolton. Not just because of the long-standing enmity between the two Houses, but because Sansa was a much more enticing prospect to forge alliances with, and the Boltons, while not necessarily being the most loyal house, hadn't brooked any concern in generations.

As for why Roose himself never married, I don't know. Roose certainly is one of the biggest mysteries in the books, and not just because of his personality and the Bolt-On possibility. On paper, everything that Roose has done is pretty much going to blow back on him and cost him his life and house. Even if he manages to survive Stannis's onslaught and somehow keep himself from being killed for being a traitor by Stark loyalists, he's still got a psychotic son who is clearly unfit for rule, and rather than quietly remove him, he keeps him around. Why? Does Roose wish to be the cause for his house's downfall? If that's his angle, why? There are just so many questions, and I don't think we can chalk it up to simple incompetence.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

7 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Er, so that he is free to marry a Frey thus consolidating his betrayal of Robb Stark. 

He was waiting for someone to offer a large enough dowry to make it worth his while. Thus he and Fat Walda are a match made in heaven.

 

5 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Ned knew his daughters and he knew how Arya and how Sansa was. There is no reason why he would give up his marvelous stunning daughter who would be a great and most importantly obedient wife and Queen consort for a man older than himself who had already lost two wives and one son and have one bastard. Sansa was Ned’s only chance for any kind of Southern ambitions. 

I don't think Ned gave a damn about southern ambitions, after his father and brother were killed, but I completely agree that he would not have given Sansa to Roose. I don't think he'd have given Arya to him either, but definitely not sensitive romantic little Sansa.

[Lord Wraith]

14 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Er, so that he is free to marry a Frey thus consolidating his betrayal of Robb Stark. 

From a story perspective yes. Yet from his perspect his was marrying into the same house as the King in the North, which is smart.

6 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

He was waiting for someone to offer a large enough dowry to make it worth his while. Thus he and Fat Walda are a match made in heaven.

 

I don't think Ned gave a damn about southern ambitions, after his father and brother were killed, but I completely agree that he would not have given Sansa to Roose. I don't think he'd have given Arya to him either, but definitely not sensitive romantic little Sansa.

 

Roose did make a good deal and agreed about Ned's lack of Southern Ambitions.

17 hours ago, devilish said:

Prior to GOT, Roose was Lord of the second strongest house in the North. He was a respectable and feared Lord, the last of his name and under threat from Ramsey Snow who is rumoured to have killed his son. Roose could have easily married somebody to mitigate such threat. A bethronal between Roose and Sansa would have consolidated the Stark power over the North and would have reduced Ramsey's threat to the bare minimum. Surely not even Ramsey would dare touching a child who share blood with both Stark's and Bolton's main branch. Alternatively Wynafryd Manderly or Alys Karstark would strengthen the Bolton's stature in the North.

 

Well remember Domeric only died in 297 AC just before the start of the story. Roose was already a widower twice I believe. He is stuck with psycho Ramsey who will likely kill his kids. Being older there are probably not a lot of great prospects in the North at the time being.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

Maybe he's already secretly married to Lady Dustin

 

derp

[Stormking902]

1 hour ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Maybe he's already secretly married to Lady Dustin

 

derp

Lady Dustin secretly hates Roose as well.......