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Dragons and volcanoes


Bobity.

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While a link between dragons and fire is obvious, I would go further that volcanic environmental conditions are dragons preferred habitat, and possibly necessary for dragons to lay clutches of eggs.

Much has been known and discussed of the specific environmental conditions dragon eggs require to hatch, however there has been almost nothing on the possible conditional requirements for dragons to lay eggs.

Below is an analysis which I conclude that dragons are very sensitive to their environments, possibly requiring volcanic habitat to survive as a species.  Reviewing WOIAF I was able to identify only four locations of established volcanic activity.  I also review the other locations that potentially have volcanic activity and non-volcanic locations where dragons reside.

Identified Volcanic Locations

Valyria

The fourteen volcanoes of the freehold was a highly active volcanic region.  Volcanic activity seems to be continuing with a smoking sea. Post doom Valyria appears to be extremely dangerous, even to dragons, for exact reasons unknown as no visitors have returned to explain why.  Unless you believe Eron Greyjoy.

Valyria was a natural habitat of dragons among fourteen active volcanoes.  According to Valyrian legends dragons seemed to thrive in the wilds of Valyria, and once tamed and ridden by the Valyrians as a tool of war they helped them thrive as a conquering slaving empire.  At the height of Valyrian influence they controlled the majority of central and western Essos.  However, the forty dragonlord families and their dragons resided almost exclusively in the city of Valyria, close to volcanoes.  The sole exception was the Targaryen family, who was ridiculed by dragonlord society after moving away from Valyria based on the accurate prophetic dreams by Daenys the Dreamer of the impending Doom.  With all of their extensive belongings, including five dragons, the Targaryen’s traveled to the very edge of the Valyrian Empire.  Dragonstone, a castle on the side of an active volcano.

After the Doom, stories emerged that only three non Targaryian Valyrian dragonlords and their dragons had survived in Essos by not being in Valyria during the event;Tyrosh, Lys and Qohor.  In the cases of Tyrosh and Lys the dragonlords/dragons had been killed by uprisings, while in Qohor the dragonlord raised an army, and with a dragon marched to Valyria, and were never heard from again.  This would indicate that their were no dragonlords living in Volantis, which seems odd considering its size and importance.  

Accounts from the Rhoynar had Valyrian dragon population at over three hundred, putting the Valyrian Doom survival rate at 1%.  An empire spread over a continent, and only a tiny fraction had lived elsewhere outside of Valyria proper.

 

Quote

“And the dragons came. Not three, as Prince Garin had faced at Volon Therys, but three hundred or more, if the tales that have come down to us can be believed.” - The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: Ten Thousand Ships

Dragonlords always stayed close to home, and home always had volcanos.

Dragonmont

Quote

“And ours are larger and stronger, but for Vhagar. Dragons thrive best here on Dragonstone” – The Princess and the Queen

Located in Blackwater Bay the castle of Dragonstone had been the home of the Targaryen family since before the Doom.  The evidence that dragons thrived on Dragonmont is strong, giving me no doubt that the volcanic island is a preferred dragon habitat.

Quote

“…six other dragons made their lairs in the smoky caverns of the Dragonmont above the castle. There was Silverwing, Good Queen Alysanne’s mount of old; Seasmoke, the pale grey beast that had been the pride and passion of Ser Laenor Velaryon; hoary old Vermithor, unridden since the death of King Jaehaerys. And back of the mountain dwelled three wild dragons, never claimed nor ridden by any man, living or dead.” - The Princess and the Queen

When wild and tame unpaired dragons “dwelled”, it was in a volcanic environment.

Quote

“Cannibal, so named because he had been known to feed on the carcasses of dead dragons, and descend upon the hatcheries of Dragonstone” - The Princess and the Queen

The fact that hatcheries existed on Dragonstone speaks to the fertility of dragons residing there.  I think it is clear that Dragonmont’s active volcano was prefered by dragons as a habitat, with an emphasis of proven fertility.

Winterfell

Quote

“Indeed, the presence of the hot springs – which pepper the land around Winterfell – may be the chief reason why the First Men initially settled here.” - The World of Ice and Fire - The North: Winterfell

Clusters of hot springs are a form of passive, but sustained volcanic activity. There are also Winterfell connections to dragons.  

Quote

"Hot springs such as the one beneath Winterfell have been shown to be headed by the furnace of the world - the same fires made the Fourteen Flames or the smoking mountain of Dragonstone.  Yet the smallfolk of Winterfell and the winter town have been known to claim that the springs are heated by the breath of a dragon that sleeps beneath the castle." - The World of Ice and Fire - The North: Winterfell

Admittedly this reference is a weak connection, but it does reinforce the volcanic nature of the Winterfell hot springs and introduce dragons within the local folklore.

Quote

“We can dismiss Mushroom’s claim in Testimony that the dragon Vermax left a clutch of eggs somewhere in the depths of Winterfell’s crypts, where the waters of the hot springs run close to the walls, while his rider treated with Cregan Stark at the start of the Dance of Dragons.”  - The World of Ice and Fire - The North: Winterfell

I trust Mushroom, his attention to detail makes me feel that he is writing from memory, not elaborate fiction and his accounts had been validated by a second source.

Quote

“Mushrooms tales of plots, murders, trysts, debaucheries, and more – and all in the most explicit detail.  Septon Eustace’s and Mushroom’s accounts are often at odds with one another, but at times there are some surprising areas of agreement between them.” - The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Viserys I

Does Winterfell have an untold history with dragons?  Possibly, but the evidence of volcanic activity is clear.

Marahai

Located in the Jade Sea is Marahai, this is the only reference and is clearly volcanic.  It would be logically to conclude that this would be a good dragon habitat.

Quote

“Marahai, the paradise isle, a verdant crescent attended by twin fire islands, where burning mountains belch plumes of molten stone day and night” - The World of Ice and Fire - The Bones and Beyond: Leng

Other Locations

Quote

 

Hardhome

“Hardhome had been halfway toward becoming a town, the only true town north of the Wall, until the night six hundred years ago when hell had swallowed it. Its people had been carried off into slavery or slaughtered for meat, depending on which version of the tale you believed, their homes and halls consumed in a conflagration that burned so hot that watchers on the Wall far to the south had thought the sun was rising in the north. Afterward ashes rained down on haunted forest and Shivering Sea alike for almost half a year. Traders reported finding only nightmarish devastation where Hardhome had stood, a landscape of charred trees and burned bones, waters choked with swollen corpses, blood-chilling shrieks echoing from the cave mouths that pocked the great cliff that loomed above the settlement.” - A Dance with Dragons - Jon VIII

 

 

There have been theories that Hardhome was a volcanic explosion.  A landscape of charred trees, burned bones is not volcanic, that’s dragons.  Volcanic events do not leave “waters choked with swollen corpses”, an erupting volcanoes burns everything it touches and more than likely creates a new layer of rock on top of whatever was there before.  Volcanic events are all about impossibly hot temperatures, and doesn't compute with accounts of bloated bodies.

Also, references to sounds coming from cave mouths closely parallel to the Whipsers on Crackclaw Point, which is a natural cave effect.

Quote

“Dragonstone had been the westernmost outpost of Valyrian power for two centuries” - The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest

Valyrians had been on Dragonstone 200 years before the Doom of Valyria, the Doom having occurred in 114 BC.  This places the arrival of the Valyrians in Blackwater Bay at roughly 314 BC, 614 years before the events of the books.

The Hardhome incident was 600 years before the events of the books, right when the Valyrians were establishing themselves in the Narrow Sea region.  I would imagine they would have done some slave harvesting, being in their nature.  In my opinion the descriptions of Hardhome resembles a slave operation, with dragon support.  If a number of dragons had been burning hell onto the Wildlings, igniting the surrounding forest, then it would have been observable from the Wall.

Mother of Mountains

Quote

“The horselords have only one permanent settlement: the ‘city’ they call Vaes Dothrak which stands beneath the shadow of the lonely peak they call the Mother of Mountains, beside a bottomless lake they name the Womb of the World.  It is here that the Dothraki believe their race was born.” - The World of Ice and Fire - Beyond the Free Cities: The Grasslands

Lonely peaks tend to be volcanic in origin.  Considering the possibility of Dany uniting the Dotharaki kalasars on the back of a dragon within view of the Mother of Mountains, something could happen...maybe.

The Shadow

While there is no direct mention of volcanic activity in and around Asshai, there is a river that is toxic, black, and named Ash.  For all the dark mysteries surrounding this region, discovering that it has volcanic activity would be unsurprising.

There is also some evidence that the Shadow near Asshai is the source of all dragons, contrary to the Valyrian origin story.

Quote

“These Asshai’i histories say that a people so ancient they had no name first tamed dragons in the Shadow and brought them to Valyria, teaching the Valyrians their arts before departing from the annals.” - The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Rise of Valyria

Asshai is also known to be a source of ancient dragon eggs.

Quote

"Dragon's eggs, from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai," said Magister Illyrio. "The eons have turned them to stone, yet still they burn bright with beauty." - A Game of Thrones - Daenerys II

Yandal also writes about dragons in the cliffs leading into the Shadow, but then immediately discounts them as fairy tales.

Dragon Pits

 

Quote

"We were told these beasts are smaller than the queen's monster." "The pit has slowed their growth." Quentyn's readings had suggested that the same thing had occurred in the Seven Kingdoms. None of the dragons bred and raised in the Dragonpit of King's Landing had ever approached the size of Vhagar or Meraxes, much less that of the Black Dread, King Aegon's monster.” - A Dance with Dragons - The Dragontamer

Quote

“…the Dragonpit, the colossal structure that King Maegor the Cruel had built for just that purpose. Beneath its great dome, forty huge under vaults had been carved from the bones of the Hill of Rhaenys in a great ring. Thick iron doors closed these man-made caves at either end, the inner doors fronting on the sands of the pit, the outer opening to the hillside.” - The Princess and the Queen

There are many references to the laying of eggs at Dragonstone, it even had a hatchery built in fused black stone.  In contrast there are no references to dragons having laid eggs at either the King's Landing or Meereen dragon pits.  As for Drogon, Viserion and Rhaegal, they are possibly too young still to lay eggs, meaning the absence of them laying eggs holds less weight.  However, the suppressed growth of dragons enclosed in pits does demonstrate how susceptible dragons are to their environment. It’s clear that the dragon pits are not an ideal habitat for dragons to thrive and procreate.

Brimstone

Throughout the books are a number of references to brimstone or sulfur smelling water.  While sulfurous waters do occur around volcanic regions, they are not exclusive to them.  In many cases it is caused by sulfate reducing bacteria.  I disregard these accounts as volcanic regions unless accompanied by other indicators, primarily heat.

Dragons and Gender

The accounts of Mushroom, that “Vermax left a clutch of eggs somewhere in the depths of Winterfell’s crypts, where the waters of the host springs run close to the walls.” was dismissed.  Aside from Yandals bias against Mushroom, this disregard was justified due to the orthodox belief that dragons have gender, which seems to be only identifiable by observing which dragons laid eggs.  A vigorous scholarly debate exists among Maesters on the subject of dragon gender and mating, indicating that the sexual process was not obvious?!?

Quote

“the dwarf was writing down what he recalled concerning the mating habits of dragons, on which subject Barth, Munkun, and Thomax held markedly divergent views.” - A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion lV

Dragon sexualtiy was also a much researched topic by Egg, though his obsession was on the hatching problem.  Fertility of dragons is a mute point with no dragons.

Quote

“The last years of Aegon's reign were consumed by a search for ancient lore about the dragon breeding of Valyria, and it was said that Aegon commissioned journeys to places as far away as Asshai-by-the-Shadow with the hopes of finding texts and knowledge that had not been preserved in Westeros.” - The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon V

Perhaps a young maester Marwyn had been sent by Aegon to Asshai? Summerhall was destroyed in 259 AC, making it possible.

While Ageon V and recent maesters would have been disadvantaged by not having a live dragon to observe, Septon Barth’s opportunity to observe dragons would have been limitless, being Hand during the reign of Jaehareys l, the high point of Westerosi dragon population.

Quote

“As archmaester Glydan notes in his fragmentary history, there is no record that Vermax ever laid so much as a single egg, suggesting the dragon was male.  The belief that dragons could change sex at need is erroneous, according to Maester Anson’s Truth, rooted in a misunderstanding of the esoteric metaphor that Barth preferred when discussing the higher mysteries.” - World of Ice and Fire - The North: Winterfell

Having such multiple divergent views on a matter that could be reasonably explained by observing dragon sex, leads me to believe that no maester have seen dragons mating.

Quote

“What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it.” - A Feast For Crows - Samwell lV

I believe that Maester Aemon was correct in reinterpreting Septon Barth’s work that dragons are genderless, or could change their genders.  I am not confident in Aemon’s prophecy interpretations, as I share Maester Maryns views on the pursuit.

There are real life examples of lizards changing genders, like the Central Bearded Dragon of Australia, where stress from climate change is resulting in male lizards procreating.  Creatures which evolve to be genderless, or the capacity to shift genders, would be enhanced in their chances for successful procreation.  Need for such flexibility in procreation would make sense if dragons could only lay clutches of eggs in volcanic environments.

Conclusion

I propose that dragons prefer, if not require, volcanic regions to lay eggs and procreate.  They are also gender-less or sex changers to take advantage of the opportunity to procreate due to the relatively rarity of volcanic environments.  Even if volcanic conditions are not necessary for laying eggs, there is enough evidence in the comparisons between Dragonstone and the dragonpit to conclude that dragons prefer volcanic habitats.

A review of the World of Ice and Fire find only a few established volcanic locations, some of which are documented as having dragons been ruled by dragonlords, and/or have been referenced as locations dragons have laid eggs. It would only make sense that any empire with dragonlords would have been keenly interested in all volcanic regions, as they would be the only locations dragons could grow and thrive.

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Very nice analysis!!!! Welcome to the boards @Bobity.  I really like the connection between volcanic regions and dragons.  Also, that Hardhome was a dragon attack.  Nice use of dating to establish a timeline!  Also, the dragon gender issue, which I have always been a little confused about, but I see that more clearly now.  Thanks!

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Hi Bobity! Welcome.

This is really well put together. 

One minor quibble: the dragon eggs in the cradles wasn't about hatching, it was about imprinting. An animal is most likely to bond with the first human it sees and interacts with at or close to birth. It was to strengthen the possibility of dragonriding. Granted, I'm sure they kept the cradles warm and cozy. 

GRRM has said that dragons were once all over Planetos. Could be the Westerosi-continent-based dragons made their homes in Winterfell...and this has me off and thinking on another crackpot. Oh, and there had to have been volcanic activity north of the Wall at one point because the CotF made daggars and arrowheads out of obsidian to gift to the Night's Watch every year for a while. Also the Skagosi trade dragonglass, so their mountain(s) must have been actively volcanic at some point.

You might want to consider adding Bran's seeing dragons in Asshai during one of his visions. Don't know whether those are real dragons or Targaryens, but either way it's an interesting point.

Do you have any thoughts on the idea that the Targaryen dragons were poisoned by the maesters? Or do you think being away from their ideal location would have had a naturally detrimental effect on their fertility?

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4 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

GRRM has said that dragons were once all over Planetos. Could be the Westerosi-continent-based dragons made their homes in Winterfell...and this has me off and thinking on another crackpot. Oh, and there had to have been volcanic activity north of the Wall at one point because the CotF made daggars and arrowheads out of obsidian to gift to the Night's Watch every year for a while. Also the Skagosi trade dragonglass, so their mountain(s) must have been actively volcanic at some point.

Thanks @Lady Blizzardborn !!  Their are also the crofter cottage sized basalt stones that made up the Moat Cailin's curtain wall, evidence of older volcanic activity throughout the North.  I suspect that the hot springs of Winterfell is the remnant volcanic activity of that was going on in the region long, long before men arrived.  As for crackpoot theories of dragons on Westeros....I got a couple others coming.

4 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Do you have any thoughts on the idea that the Targaryen dragons were poisoned by the maesters? Or do you think being away from their ideal location would have had a naturally detrimental effect on their fertility?

Something must have happened, and it was not because of changes in dragon habitat.  The last malformed dragon was kept at Kings Landing, probably at the Dragon Pit, and that is the first and only example.  While a poisoning is plausible it does not explain the fact that dragon eggs stopped hatching.  For all dragon eggs everywhere to suddenly become unhatchable!?  That is waaaayyyy beyond a maesters capacity.

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12 minutes ago, Bobity. said:

Thanks @Lady Blizzardborn !!  Their are also the crofter cottage sized basalt stones that made up the Moat Cailin's curtain wall, evidence of older volcanic activity throughout the North.  I suspect that the hot springs of Winterfell is the remnant volcanic activity of that was going on in the region long, long before men arrived.  As for crackpoot theories of dragons on Westeros....I got a couple others coming.

Something must have happened, and it was not because of changes in dragon habitat.  The last malformed dragon was kept at Kings Landing, probably at the Dragon Pit, and that is the first and only example.  While a poisoning is plausible it does not explain the fact that dragon eggs stopped hatching.  For all dragon eggs everywhere to suddenly become unhatchable!?  That is waaaayyyy beyond a maesters capacity.

My crackpot is actually about dragonsteel. But I look forward to more dragon crackpots from you. You've made a great first impression with this thread!

Can't remember if it's stated specifically in the books or just discussed a lot in the fandom, but it seems like magic left the world for a time. That would explain no dragon eggs hatching. Obviously the maesters wouldn't have had access to the wild dragons.

Have you looked into the idea of a dragon/wyvern/firewyrm hatching during the burning of Winterfell? That's been thrown around a little. I'd like your take on the possibility.

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If dragons are "fire made flesh", then it definitely makes sense for them to have an affinity for warm, smokey volcanic places. But I don't know if its a necessity. Dany hatched hers in a pyre, and although GRRM says her hatching them was a once-ever event, I have to think the fire had to play an important role. 

My crackpot theory speculates dragons were created by "those too old to have names" (or however it's phrased) by "implanting" the fire breathing mechanism from the fire wyrms of Valyria into the wyverns of Sothyros, and that the work was done in the Shadow. If the Shadow is volcanic, and very well could be as you say, it would feed into it. 

22 hours ago, Bobity. said:

There are many references to the laying of eggs at Dragonstone, it even had a hatchery built in fused black stone.

Where is the bit about the fused black stone from?

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4 hours ago, Lord Vance II said:

If dragons are "fire made flesh", then it definitely makes sense for them to have an affinity for warm, smokey volcanic places. But I don't know if its a necessity. Dany hatched hers in a pyre, and although GRRM says her hatching them was a once-ever event, I have to think the fire had to play an important role. 

My crackpot theory speculates dragons were created by "those too old to have names" (or however it's phrased) by "implanting" the fire breathing mechanism from the fire wyrms of Valyria into the wyverns of Sothyros, and that the work was done in the Shadow. If the Shadow is volcanic, and very well could be as you say, it would feed into it. 

Where is the bit about the fused black stone from?

Totally agree with your crackpot on dragon origin, but I think that Ashaai and the slopes of the Shadow are where they were created. I also believe that the too old to be named are really sacrifice demanding demons....demons being a reality in this world.

Everything at Dragonstone is built in fused black stone, towers, touch holders, ovens in the kitchen, right down to the courtyard.  I just made the leap that their hatcheries were as well.

"Sunfyre’s scales still shone like beaten gold in the sunlight, but as he sprawled across the fused black Valyrian stone of the yard, it was plain to see that he was a broken thing," - The Princess and the Queen

“Cannibal, so named because he had been known to feed on the carcasses of dead dragons, and descend upon the hatcheries of Dragonstone” - The Princess and the Queen 

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I would just like to mention my own crackpot theory that dragons are not just associated with volcanoes, they are volcanoes- or at least they are the force of vulcanism and the act of lava  exploding into the air by the same act of transformative magic that created firewyrms from subterranean magma and the sea dragon Nagga was a tectonic plate collision like the Pacific Rim before becoming "real".

This is why Dragonstone and other volcanoes haven't erupted within recorded history. The only exception, as far as I know, is Valyria and I think we can possibly towards the Citadel and Faceless Men for that one. I admit, the Fires of the Earth Made Flesh idea is pretty out there, but I think the lack of eruptions or earthquakes aside from the Doom argues that something important has been done to these natural forces (and to glaciation and the Ice Ages?) and this is just my flashiest bit of tinfoil.

 

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@Bobity. Welcome to the forums!:cheers: It's so nice to see another volcano thread, I was beginning to get bored. At the risk of blowing my own trumpet, you might want to check out my own theories in my signature. Volcanoes are my speciality on these boards: I always get involved in topics concerning them.

I agree with you completely that volcanoes are very significant in the books, not least because they provide a good location for dragons to live. You are correct about Hardhome being a volcanic disaster (note that the quote says "waters choked with swollen corpses" - bodies in water will become bloated regardless of whether they were killed fleeing a volcano or not), Winterfell is obviously an example of geothermal heating, and well done on remembering Marahai! Not many people do.

I also think that the Mother of Mountains is likely to be a volcano, and as for the Shadow (oh boy:drool:) let's just say there are definitely lots of volcanoes in that area (if you're curious I can give you more evidence).

I also really like your idea about the gender switching! I'm making that my new working hypothesis for the future.

 

On 22/02/2017 at 7:04 PM, Wolf of the Steppes said:

Very nice analysis!!!! Welcome to the boards @Bobity.  I really like the connection between volcanic regions and dragons.  Also, that Hardhome was a dragon attack.  Nice use of dating to establish a timeline!  Also, the dragon gender issue, which I have always been a little confused about, but I see that more clearly now.  Thanks!

I really don't think Hardhome was a dragon attack. The evidence is nigh-conclusive that the city was destroyed by a volcanic eruption.

 

On 23/02/2017 at 3:51 AM, Bobity. said:

Their are also the crofter cottage sized basalt stones that made up the Moat Cailin's curtain wall, evidence of older volcanic activity throughout the North.  I suspect that the hot springs of Winterfell is the remnant volcanic activity of that was going on in the region long, long before men arrived.  As for crackpoot theories of dragons on Westeros....I got a couple others coming.

Have you considered the Cape of Eagles here? It bears a remarkable resemblance to Banks Peninsula in New Zealand, and this being a (possibly extinct) volcano would explain the basalt blocks in nearby Moat Cailin.

 

On 23/02/2017 at 1:43 PM, Lord Vance II said:

Where is the bit about the fused black stone from?

I think Bobity. is talking about fused Valyrian stone, rather than the notorious oily Black stone. Is that the source of confusion?

Lord Vance II, we've had some interesting geography-related discussions before, so it's good to see you in this thread as well!

 

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