Jump to content

Let's speculate wildly about Lady Dustin


Illyrio Mo'Parties

Recommended Posts

@M_Tootles raised a good point on reddit: the childless widow Hornwood is expected to get married again, and quickly, and it's made plain that it's ultimately her liege lord's prerogative to choose the suitor. Nobody considers this arrangement to be particularly unusual in the Hornwood case, and yet when a similar situation occurred some 15 odd years previously, Lady Dustin was allowed to remain single.

Plainly, Ned never pressed the issue. The question is, why?

And let's consider some more interesting possibilities than "because Ned was nice", or "because Dustin and her brothers vetoed it". Ned may be nice, but he always places his duty first, and, if push comes to shove, the Ryswells and the Dustin smallfolk aren't going to rebel against Winterfell.

The Dustin lands appear to border, or at least sit near to, the lands of the Ryswells, the Tallharts, the Flints of Flint's Finger, and even the Manderlys and perhaps the Cerwyns. Lady Dustin is a Ryswell by birth and her only living relatives at the time of her husband's death were her brothers, and her sister, who was at one point married to Roose Bolton: their son served Lady Dustin for four years as a page. So we can see potential claims from the Ryswells and the Boltons, both of whom would be pleased to expand their demesnes; but just as in the Hornwood case, none of the other houses would be happy about their rivals growing so strong, and it might lead to war.

Perhaps Ned thought that the issue could be put off, since Lady Dustin was so young. But he's just seen half his family die over the course of a couple of years; if anybody should realise that things can change in the blink of an eye, it's Ned. (Contradicting this point is the fact that he let the only other adult Stark join the Night's Watch before his own sons had even survived their early, dangerous years.)

So what gives? Any fucking suggestions?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And while we're at it, let's put two and two together and see if we can't come up with five. Put on your tinfoil hats and 3D glasses, please, and let's check out some Lady Dustin quotes:

  • ...if I so choose, I could be an inconvenience. Of course, Roose sees that too, so he takes care to keep me sweet.
  • Lord Bolton aspires to more than mere lordship. Why not King of the North?
  • If I were queen...

Queen, eh? Perhaps that's how he's going to keep her sweet. I mean, come on, there's certainly something interesting going on between those two.

And they do seem to have something in common. Here's Lady Dustin again:

If I were queen, the first thing I would do would be to kill all those grey rats.

Yes, Lady Dustin hates the maesters. But how does Roose feel about them?

  • My old maester insisted it was a sign of sickness, yet the boy was otherwise as strong as a young bull.
  • The maesters will tell you that King Jaehaerys abolished the lord's right to the first night to appease his shrewish queen, but where the old gods rule, old customs linger.
  • A sickness of the bowels, Maester Uthor says, but I say poison.

The word "disdainful" springs to mind. And let's not forget that Roose made fast friends with Qyburn, a defrocked maester whose disdain for his old masters isn't a matter of conjecture.

Of course, Roose also makes use of the maesters as healers, and even Lady Dustin concedes that they do good medical work. But beyond that, perhaps there's a mutual antipathy towards this southron order interfering in the North.

And if Roose does aim to be king, then he'll need a queen - and having the Barrowlands and the Rills onside wouldn't hurt, either.

Edit: I actually quite want this to happen now. All hail King Roose and Queen Barbrey, the rightful rulers of winter!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

@M_Tootles raised a good point on reddit: the childless widow Hornwood is expected to get married again, and quickly, and it's made plain that it's ultimately her liege lord's prerogative to choose the suitor. Nobody considers this arrangement to be particularly unusual in the Hornwood case, and yet when a similar situation occurred some 15 odd years previously, Lady Dustin was allowed to remain single.

Plainly, Ned never pressed the issue. The question is, why?

And let's consider some more interesting possibilities than "because Ned was nice", or "because Dustin and her brothers vetoed it". Ned may be nice, but he always places his duty first, and, if push comes to shove, the Ryswells and the Dustin smallfolk aren't going to rebel against Winterfell.

The Dustin lands appear to border, or at least sit near to, the lands of the Ryswells, the Tallharts, the Flints of Flint's Finger, and even the Manderlys and perhaps the Cerwyns. Lady Dustin is a Ryswell by birth and her only living relatives at the time of her husband's death were her brothers, and her sister, who was at one point married to Roose Bolton: their son served Lady Dustin for four years as a page. So we can see potential claims from the Ryswells and the Boltons, both of whom would be pleased to expand their demesnes; but just as in the Hornwood case, none of the other houses would be happy about their rivals growing so strong, and it might lead to war.

Perhaps Ned thought that the issue could be put off, since Lady Dustin was so young. But he's just seen half his family die over the course of a couple of years; if anybody should realise that things can change in the blink of an eye, it's Ned. (Contradicting this point is the fact that he let the only other adult Stark join the Night's Watch before his own sons had even survived their early, dangerous years.)

So what gives? Any fucking suggestions?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And while we're at it, let's put two and two together and see if we can't come up with five. Put on your tinfoil hats and 3D glasses, please, and let's check out some Lady Dustin quotes:

  • ...if I so choose, I could be an inconvenience. Of course, Roose sees that too, so he takes care to keep me sweet.
  • Lord Bolton aspires to more than mere lordship. Why not King of the North?
  • If I were queen...

Queen, eh? Perhaps that's how he's going to keep her sweet. I mean, come on, there's certainly something interesting going on between those two.

And they do seem to have something in common. Here's Lady Dustin again:

If I were queen, the first thing I would do would be to kill all those grey rats.

Yes, Lady Dustin hates the maesters. But how does Roose feel about them?

  • My old maester insisted it was a sign of sickness, yet the boy was otherwise as strong as a young bull.
  • The maesters will tell you that King Jaehaerys abolished the lord's right to the first night to appease his shrewish queen, but where the old gods rule, old customs linger.
  • A sickness of the bowels, Maester Uthor says, but I say poison.

The word "disdainful" springs to mind. And let's not forget that Roose made fast friends with Qyburn, a defrocked maester whose disdain for his old masters isn't a matter of conjecture.

Of course, Roose also makes use of the maesters as healers, and even Lady Dustin concedes that they do good medical work. But beyond that, perhaps there's a mutual antipathy towards this southron order interfering in the North.

And if Roose does aim to be king, then he'll need a queen - and having the Barrowlands and the Rills onside wouldn't hurt, either.

Edit: I actually quite want this to happen now. All hail King Roose and Queen Barbrey, the rightful rulers of winter!

My speculation is that a daughter of a previous Lord Dustin married a Lord Ryswell - perhaps Lady Dustin's father or grandfather. Note that we don't know who Lord Rodrik Ryswell's wife is. If she - or Rodrik's mother - happens to be a Dustin, then after the death of the last Lord Dustin, the Ryswells would become the heirs to Barrowton in any case. In that case, Lady Dustin is just holding the seat until her death, after which one of her brothers will likely become the Lord of Barrowton. Possibly, this would even mean that the oldest Ryswell brother would eventually become the Lord of the Rills AND the Lord of Barrowton.

In that case, one can understand why she was allowed to remain as Lady of Barrowton after her Lord husband's death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Barbrey's father might have signaled that he would not tolerate anybody moving in on his daughter's seat. Manderly might have done something similar, but Ramsay challenged him. And maybe she has a designated heir that has not been disclosed for the reader yet. Oh, politics were much more stable when Eddard sat in Winterfell and Robert sat on the Iron Throne. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roose would have to get rid of Fat Walda to marry Barbrey. And if anything untoward happens to Walda, her family might have something to say about it.

Barbrey's line about being queen might only mean she's thought of the possibility, should Roose become single and claim the be King. But Roose isn't likely to proclaim himself king. He's too subtle for that. I wouldn't bet they're working together, but it would not surprise me if Roose has allowed Barbrey to think what she wants about her potential future.

5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

My speculation is that a daughter of a previous Lord Dustin married a Lord Ryswell - perhaps Lady Dustin's father or grandfather. Note that we don't know who Lord Rodrik Ryswell's wife is. If she - or Rodrik's mother - happens to be a Dustin, then after the death of the last Lord Dustin, the Ryswells would become the heirs to Barrowton in any case. In that case, Lady Dustin is just holding the seat until her death, after which one of her brothers will likely become the Lord of Barrowton. Possibly, this would even mean that the oldest Ryswell brother would eventually become the Lord of the Rills AND the Lord of Barrowton.

In that case, one can understand why she was allowed to remain as Lady of Barrowton after her Lord husband's death.

I like this explanation.

Another possibility is that she's barren, thus marrying again wouldn't do any good since she can't provide an heir. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Barbrey's father might have signaled that he would not tolerate anybody moving in on his daughter's seat. Manderly might have done something similar, but Ramsay challenged him. And maybe she has a designated heir that has not been disclosed for the reader yet. Oh, politics were much more stable when Eddard sat in Winterfell and Robert sat on the Iron Throne. 

I wonder if she has a little Snow tucked away somewhere. She did sleep with Brandon. I could definitely see Ned not pushing the mother of Brandon's child, lest she make it known who the father was (which would have upset Cat in the early days).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Lady Dustin is actually Rhaegar

Yes, but he is being warged by Euron. I wonder which privy she is allowed to use. Is that something the Iron Throne dictates, or is best left to each region or house? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Yes, but he is being warged by Euron. I wonder which privy she is allowed to use. Is that something the Iron Throne dictates, or is best left to each region or house? 

In the Westerlands either would be acceptable as it is the rest of the kingdom. However under Maegor, the "ye shall not ask and ye shall not tell" policy was in effect. However good queen Alysane convinced Jaehaerys to abolish said policy along with first night.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we're speculating wildly, I would say that Ned never pushed her to remarry because her husband didn't really die.

She and Ned could have cooked up the I-hate-Ned-because-he-never-returned-my-husband's-bones cover story together. If people thought Lady Dustin hated Ned, they might believe that he refrains from pushing her into a new marriage because he realizes that she loathes him and he doesn't want to alienate her altogether.

Or maybe she doesn't know her husband is still alive: he stays away because she was a shrew from day one in their marriage, called him "Brandon" in bed on their wedding night, or because he's gay and doesn't feel comfortable admitting it, or he's on a secret mission to Volantis or something.

The husband's name is/was Willem Dustin, which may put him in the group of Will-related characters who play critical roles but remain offstage: Wylla the wet nurse, Wyllis the historian of Hardhome who vanished, Willas Tyrell who walks with a cane but really seems a bit too reclusive if that's his only disability. I realize that there are some Will characters who are not hidden, but there does seem to be a cluster of mysterious lost Wills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmmmmm, I've got nothing solid, but I think her borrowed association with barrows and morbid fascination with death may mask something important about her origins. For some reason I see her as a kind of inverted Lyanna and a poisonous centaur- a Lyanessus?

Ramsey has already speculated on making clothing out of her and her blood has already painted the blade of a doomed Stark...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lady Dustin is useing Roose to further her own ambitions, she knows more about Roose Bolton then maybe any other character in the books perhaps she even knows the reasoning behind Rooses leachings. I think she realises hes a monster as his son Ramsey is and when the time is right will stab Roose in the back probably quite litterally. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Barbrey's line about being queen might only mean she's thought of the possibility, should Roose become single and claim the be King. But Roose isn't likely to proclaim himself king. He's too subtle for that. I wouldn't bet they're working together, but it would not surprise me if Roose has allowed Barbrey to think what she wants about her potential future.

Or perhaps, lady Barbrey tells to Theon/Reek exactly what she wants Roose thinks about her and her thoughts ^^. Perhaps she just delivers a credible lie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Seams said:

The husband's name is/was Willem Dustin, which may put him in the group of Will-related characters who play critical roles but remain offstage: Wylla the wet nurse, Wyllis the historian of Hardhome who vanished, Willas Tyrell who walks with a cane but really seems a bit too reclusive if that's his only disability. I realize that there are some Will characters who are not hidden, but there does seem to be a cluster of mysterious lost Wills.

You mean free Willy, the orc ? 

sorry, I can't resist :ph34r:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Seams said:

If we're speculating wildly, I would say that Ned never pushed her to remarry because her husband didn't really die.

 

I like this one :) but this is not the first topic where people came up with idea that people from Ned's dream are actually alive and honestly, don't know where would they all be then? doing and waiting for what ? 

Nevertheless, Barbrey is a women of many mysteries :) she is in Roose's camp for now, but I don't think she is into it with her heart...I wouldn't be surprised that she is into some sinister conspiracy with Manderly :) Maybe she is wearing chainmail  beneath her dress :) 

What I mostly like with her is that she despise Ramsay so much, she called him plainly Bastard, even after Roose legitimize him :) And she is taunting Freys all the time, reminding them that North remembers :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since we are speculating...

Barb is the flagship of the cadre of highborn northern ladies who are and will take charge of the North after the War of the Five Kings. I don't think they are working together: it's a matter of circumstance that rose them to prominent places. Some women are actually head of their respective Houses now, due to their husbands/brothers/sons deaths, and it's my guess that we will see more of them in Winds.

- Jonelle Cerwyn, Lady of Cerwyn.

- Eddara Tallhart, Lady of Torrhen's Square.

- Even though Ramsay is the lord of Winterfell, his wife is still "Arya Stark". I think that, for the loyalist Stark families still lurking in the north, they will keep her with that name until a better suitor arrives.

- The whole lot of available Mormont ladies.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A flight of imagination I had awhile ago might fit with some of these Lady Dustin conspiracy theories:

What if Ramsay Snow was not really Roose Bolton's son?

Roose was one of the last noblemen practicing the Rite of First Night, and he slept with the miller's wife. So maybe the baby was his. He thought the eyes looked like his, so he was persuaded.

But we know that Brandon Stark liked to deflower virgins. What if he had seen this lovely miller's wife at an earlier point and impregnated her before Roose raped her? He wasn't around to pay child support, so the miller's wife found another way, appealing to Lord Bolton for some assistance with her difficult son.

Alternatively, maybe Barbrey Dustin had a baby out of wedlock (with Brandon or somebody else) and placed it with the miller's wife to raise. She wanted the boy to have some claim on a high-born connection, so she encouraged the miller's wife to approach Bolton with the paternity claim. Seeing that Ramsay was a budding sociopath, she may have felt Roose deserved to be attached to this blood thirsty young bastard.

The Snow surname is a hint that we should be comparing Jon and Ramsay, I think. So some scenario that puts Ramsay's origin in closer alignment with Jon might be worth trying to sketch out. Whether that is a Stark bloodline, a noble mother or a paternity story that appears to be one thing and is really another, I couldn't say.

Granted, I'm terrible with timelines, and I don't know when Brandon died relative to when Ramsay was born. Maybe Ramsay is much too young to come from that source. So where was Benjen nine months before the birth of Ramsay Snow?

In other posts, I've described the way that Lady Dustin "reforges" Theon in the Winterfell crypt, helping him to think of himself as Theon again instead of being Reek. Because I believe that Theon represents the sword Ice, and Lady Dustin participated in a sort of blood ritual with Brandon Stark's "sword," she may be uniquely qualified to bring Theon / Ice back to life.

This thread is the first place I've realized a possible connection between Lady Dustin and grumkins. Grumkins in Westeros stories are known to engage in two types of activities:

1) they can "magic up" a sword (a Mormont remark to Jon Snow in AGoT, Jon IX), and

2) they switch babies so they are raised with the wrong identity (a Sansa remark to Catelyn, wondering whether Arya is a changeling).

If the interpretation of Theon as a restored sword is correct, Lady Dustin has performed the first task. What if Barbrey Dustin is a grumkin? Has she switched someone's baby?

ETA: Lady Dustin did help to switch someone's baby, by dressing Jeyne Poole in Stark colors for the fArya wedding to Ramsay Bolton. So she seems to have fulfilled both grumkin roles, even if she had nothing to do with Ramsay Snow as an infant. Tywin and Littlefinger also created the Jeyne / fArya situation - I wonder whether they are also grumkins?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...