NFL Offseason: your team's opportunity to overpay for mediocrity

[Rhom]

7 minutes ago, Legarous2 said:

Kraft thought of Bledsoe like a son as well, and still maintains a positive relationship with him to this day, so I'm curious to see how that pans out.  I tend to think of  this as strategy by the Hoodie.  As for Hines Ward,  he to me is the epitome of the "It's not the hall of very good" argument.  He by all accounts was a great teammate and very good at his position and got some rings.  That doesn't make him a HOF'er.  No more than it does Tedy Brucshci.

 

Amen.

[dbunting]

If I was a GM I wouldn't trade much for HJ either. There is way too much historical data of players looking good in one place and then looking like poo in another. Not worth the risk of sending 1st rd picks or even multiple 1st rd picks. Just because the guy looked ok in NE system for a few games doesn't make him a franchise QB.

[DanteGabriel]

55 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'd go the opposite direction and guess they aren't getting offered anywhere near what they want for HJ. Most teams aren't going to be willing to cough up a lot for a guy who's made three starts, especially when you consider the failure that is Brockstar and the Pats' history of fraudulent backup QBs. 

Yeah, I should have considered that possibility. Maybe I've had sunshine blown up my ass by Boston media, because the stories have been about how much other teams like Garoppolo, decision-makers on the Browns and Texans had a first-round grade on him in 2014, the Bears' GM went to the same school, etc. People here had been talking like the Browns' pick at 12 would be the price.

I get how the Osweiler thing makes teams gun-shy, but I balance that against the fact that he looked better in his limited action than Osweiler ever has, there's fuck-all for veteran free agents, and the draft QBs seem to be pretty risky.

[Cas Stark]

Maybe Jimmy G. really is going to be Tom's replacement.  Good quarterbacks are hard to find.  Perhaps he's the real thing.  And, no matter how crazy Tom's diet is, he can't possibly play more than 3 more years and even that is unlikely.

[Jace, Extat]

5 hours ago, dbunting said:

The biggest part of the sham is Polian saying this. He has done some pretty shady stuff including strangely losing almost every game one season and magically ending up in position to draft Luck.

Yeah, and then got himself and his entire staff and most of the team fired to complete the charade?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

Yeah, I should have considered that possibility. Maybe I've had sunshine blown up my ass by Boston media, because the stories have been about how much other teams like Garoppolo, decision-makers on the Browns and Texans had a first-round grade on him in 2014, the Bears' GM went to the same school, etc. People here had been talking like the Browns' pick at 12 would be the price.

I think it's accurate to say that a lot of teams liked what they saw, but there's been an overestimation about what people will actually give up for him. I'd be surprised if anyone, unless they're desperate and/or morons, would give up a first round pick for him (the Bradford trade really isn't a good comparison point Imo).

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

I get how the Osweiler thing makes teams gun-shy, but I balance that against the fact that he looked better in his limited action than Osweiler ever has, there's fuck-all for veteran free agents, and the draft QBs seem to be pretty risky.

Agreed.

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Maybe Jimmy G. really is going to be Tom's replacement.  Good quarterbacks are hard to find.  Perhaps he's the real thing.  And, no matter how crazy Tom's diet is, he can't possibly play more than 3 more years and even that is unlikely.

I think this is also a fair guess. IIRC, Jimmy was actually more efficient than Tommy, though it was a small sample size (for example, the only person with a quicker release than Tommy this year was Jimmy).

[Swordfish]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think he had a few seasons where he might have been considered a top 5 receiver, but I don't have the numbers in front of me. That said, he's also going to get a huge boost because of his "intangibles" and because he's very popular, and at the end of the day the HoF vote is a kind of popularity contest. 

 

4 hours ago, Westerosi Coast Gangster said:

He's borderline HOF. What helps him is that he was never a diva Wr, was a great blocker and was well liked.

 

3 hours ago, Legarous2 said:

Kraft thought of Bledsoe like a son as well, and still maintains a positive relationship with him to this day, so I'm curious to see how that pans out.  I tend to think of  this as strategy by the Hoodie.  As for Hines Ward,  he to me is the epitome of the "It's not the hall of very good" argument.  He by all accounts was a great teammate and very good at his position and got some rings.  That doesn't make him a HOF'er.  No more than it does Tedy Brucshci.

 

He scored like 85 td's and had 1000 receptions(one of only 13 players to do so.).

Plus a super bowl MVP and 5 pro bowls.

Plus the aforementioned intangibles.

I may (heh) be a homer, but I don't think there's a rational argument against him making it.  not first ballot, obviously, but...

 

 

[sperry]

4 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

 

 

He scored like 85 td's and had 1000 receptions(one of only 13 players to do so.).

Plus a super bowl MVP and 5 pro bowls.

Plus the aforementioned intangibles.

I may (heh) be a homer, but I don't think there's a rational argument against him making it.  not first ballot, obviously, but...

 

 

 

He was never an all-pro receiver.  He wasnt' a great player, he was a very good player with great durability. If you were never an elite player at your position you shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

[DanteGabriel]

6 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

He was never an all-pro receiver.  He wasnt' a great player, he was a very good player with great durability. If you were never an elite player at your position you shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

Yeah, if Rodney Harrison, who made First Team All Pro three times, had good career statistics, and had a passel of big playoff games, can't sniff the Hall, then no Hines Ward either.

[Swordfish]

52 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

He was never an all-pro receiver.  He wasnt' a great player, he was a very good player with great durability. If you were never an elite player at your position you shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but the numbers and the awards don't support your conclusion.  He was certainly an elite player at his position for many years.

As far as durability goes, he played roughly the same amount of games as both Moss and TO, so i'm not sure why that's an argument against him making it.

i suppose if you consider the only qualification for making the hall is '# of TD's scored', then you have a point.  But I don't think that's the case. if it is then you have to kick a whole lot of guys out of the hall.

 

Again:

1000 receptions

12000 yards

85 touchdowns

5 time pro bowler

2 Super bowl rings

1 Super Bowl MVP

3 time all pro(second team)

12 yds per reception for his career

Add to all the that he was a leader on and off the field, generally a great teammate, and a fearsome blocker...

There's more than enough there to get him in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

12 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

Again:

1000 receptions

12000 yards

85 touchdowns

5 time pro bowler

2 Super bowl rings

1 Super Bowl MVP

3 time all pro(second team)

12 yds per reception for his career

Add to all the that he was a leader on and off the field, generally a great teammate, and a fearsome blocker...

There's more than enough there to get him in.

Numbell One Smaltest Leciever in NFR Histolee...

http://uproxx.com/ksk/who-will-be-number-one-smartest-now/

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Colin Kaepernick Can't Stand Being a Niner Any Longer...

 http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/Report-49ers-QB-Colin-Kaepernick-will-opt-out-of-10968141.php?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

 

[Joe Pesci]

5 hours ago, Legarous2 said:

Kraft thought of Bledsoe like a son as well, and still maintains a positive relationship with him to this day, so I'm curious to see how that pans out.  I tend to think of  this as strategy by the Hoodie.  As for Hines Ward,  he to me is the epitome of the "It's not the hall of very good" argument.  He by all accounts was a great teammate and very good at his position and got some rings.  That doesn't make him a HOF'er.  No more than it does Tedy Brucshci.

 

While I agree with this, I will say that I think Ward will eventually get in (homerism aside), because let's be honest, it's starting to turn into the "Hall of very good" anyways.

[Swordfish]

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Numbell One Smaltest Leciever in NFR Histolee...

http://uproxx.com/ksk/who-will-be-number-one-smartest-now/

heh.  So bad...  But funny.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, Swordfish said:

heh.  So bad...  But funny.

Loves me some old KSK posts.

[sperry]

1 hour ago, Swordfish said:

You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but the numbers and the awards don't support your conclusion.  He was certainly an elite player at his position for many years.

As far as durability goes, he played roughly the same amount of games as both Moss and TO, so i'm not sure why that's an argument against him making it.

i suppose if you consider the only qualification for making the hall is '# of TD's scored', then you have a point.  But I don't think that's the case. if it is then you have to kick a whole lot of guys out of the hall.

 

Again:

1000 receptions

12000 yards

85 touchdowns

5 time pro bowler

2 Super bowl rings

1 Super Bowl MVP

3 time all pro(second team)

12 yds per reception for his career

Add to all the that he was a leader on and off the field, generally a great teammate, and a fearsome blocker...

There's more than enough there to get him in.

 

 

He's not going to make it. He's behind Moss, owens, Bruce, Holt.  Once the pipeline clears out and those guys have gotten in, other guys with better numbers will be eligible.

[Swordfish]

30 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

He's not going to make it. He's behind Moss, owens, Bruce, Holt.  Once the pipeline clears out and those guys have gotten in, other guys with better numbers will be eligible.

We'll see........

 

Numbers-wise:

13th all time in receptions

15th all time in receiving touchdowns

23rd all time in rec yards.

 

 

 

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, Swordfish said:

We'll see........

 

Numbers-wise:

13th all time in receptions

15th all time in receiving touchdowns

23rd all time in rec yards.

 

You keep repeating the numbers argument without acknowledging that a lot of very productive receivers are on their way for consideration. He won't get in ahead of Moss and Owens, and then there will be guys like Steve Smith and Andre Johnson with clearly better numbers.

Is Anquan Boldin a Hall of Famer? Because he's ahead of Ward on receptions and yards, and needs three TDs to tie him there.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

7 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

You keep repeating the numbers argument without acknowledging that a lot of very productive receivers are on their way for consideration. He won't get in ahead of Moss and Owens, and then there will be guys like Steve Smith and Andre Johnson with clearly better numbers.

Is Anquan Boldin a Hall of Famer? Because he's ahead of Ward on receptions and yards, and needs three TDs to tie him there.

And don't forget Issac Bruce and Torry Holt. I have to imagine they factor in to some degree. There is a logjam of deserving receivers for sure. Not sure where Ward fits on the list.

[Swordfish]

4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

And don't forget Issac Bruce and Torry Holt. I have to imagine they factor in to some degree. There is a logjam of deserving receivers for sure. Not sure where Ward fits on the list.

I'd put him after Bruce and before Holt.