US Politics: Everyone's Manipulating Everyone

[all swedes are racist]

39 minutes ago, Relic said:

"President Trump's Justice Department will no longer argue in court that Texas intended to discriminate against minorities when it passed a strict voter ID law that allows voters to show gun licenses but not student IDs before casting a ballot."

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/321361-trumps-doj-dropping-opposition-to-texas-voter-id-law

Who here thinks the USA will actually have a Presidential election in 2020? 

pfft... like the presidency would even be worried about it when democrats insist of fucking the dog until they are but a footnote in history 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Trump support rally in Atlanta. 250 people strong. Chanting 4 more years.

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2017/02/27/four-more-years-trump-supporters-rally-for-president-in-atlanta/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

/We're one month in people, how about you wait and see how the first 4 turn out?

[Relic]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Trump support rally in Atlanta. 250 people strong. Chanting 4 more years.

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2017/02/27/four-more-years-trump-supporters-rally-for-president-in-atlanta/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

/We're one month in people, how about you wait and see how the first 4 turn out?

"“He doesn’t need this job or this office. But we need him.”

I love how this has become a major talking point for his supporters. Trump is doing them all, and the entire country, a huge favor. 

[The Anti-Targ]

2 hours ago, Relic said:

"President Trump's Justice Department will no longer argue in court that Texas intended to discriminate against minorities when it passed a strict voter ID law that allows voters to show gun licenses but not student IDs before casting a ballot."

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/321361-trumps-doj-dropping-opposition-to-texas-voter-id-law

Who here thinks the USA will actually have a Presidential election in 2020? 

Texas has gun licences? I thought gun licenses were unconstitutional. Or rather I thought a state like Texas would regard gun licenses as unconstitutional and would therefore not require them.

Not permitting a student photo ID seems rather crazy. However one could argue that a gun license is (presumably) issued by the state govt, whereas a student ID is issued by a private institution. Therefore the law may require a state or federal govt issued form of photo ID as those are regarded as having more robust controls around them (rightly or wrongly) to ensure there is no or minimal fraudulent issuing of such ID.

Though we know how easy it is to get fake passports (according to movies and TV shows), though they are normally used for escaping the country and no so much purchased for the purpose of fraudulent voting.

[LongRider]

3 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Texas has gun licences? I thought gun licenses were unconstitutional. Or rather I thought a state like Texas would regard gun licenses as unconstitutional and would therefore not require them.

Not permitting a student photo ID seems rather crazy. However one could argue that a gun license is (presumably) issued by the state govt, whereas a student ID is issued by a private institution. Therefore the law may require a state or federal govt issued form of photo ID as those are regarded as having more robust controls around them (rightly or wrongly) to ensure there is no or minimal fraudulent issuing of such ID.

Though we know how easy it is to get fake passports (according to movies and TV shows), though they are normally used for escaping the country and no so much purchased for the purpose of fraudulent voting.

One of the issues with student ID's is at college student age, more students vote Democratic than Republican.  The voter ID laws are all about restricting minority and Democrats voting whenever and wherever possible.

[Dr. Pepper]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/25/us/ice-immigrant-deportations-trump.html

 

Edited to add - At least morale over at ICE has never been better.Thank god for that!

[/i]"“Morale amongst our agents and officers has increased exponentially since the signing of the orders,” the unions representing ICE and Border Patrol agents said in a joint statement"[/i] 

Is ICE deliberately misinforming the public when they go to their social media accounts to say there are no checkpoints, when clearly there are checkpoints?

I'm also pessimistic enough to think that some of the verifiably false stories are deliberate as a way to make the true checkpoint stories appear invalid.  

[Kalbear]

2 hours ago, Relic said:

Who here thinks the USA will actually have a Presidential election in 2020? 

Russia still has presidential elections. So does Hungary. Most authoritarian regimes do. 

They're just not actually fair or free elections.

[zelticgar]

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Trump support rally in Atlanta. 250 people strong. Chanting 4 more years.

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2017/02/27/four-more-years-trump-supporters-rally-for-president-in-atlanta/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

/We're one month in people, how about you wait and see how the first 4 turn out?

I think the Pro / Anti rallies are played out. They only got 200 people to show up in Boston this weekend for an Anti Trump rally. I can find more Anti Trump folks at the Starbucks in Kendall Square on a Monday morning.

 http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/02/26/boston-rally-urges-probe-into-alleged-trump-russia-connections/ 

 

[Kalbear]

Just now, zelticgar said:

I think the Pro / Anti rallies are played out. They only got 200 people to show up in Boston this weekend for an Anti Trump rally. I can find more Anti Trump folks at the Starbucks in Kendall Square on a Monday morning.

 http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/02/26/boston-rally-urges-probe-into-alleged-trump-russia-connections/ 

 

I suspect you're wrong; the Dusseldorf parade where they had Trump sodomizing the statue of Liberty was quite big, and tomorrow's protest in Vancouver is likely to be quite big. 

The lines outside of Town Halls are pretty large too. 

[zelticgar]

Maybe but only 200 people showing up in Boston on an incredibly warm winter weekend is a pretty strong indicator that people are settling back into their routines.  Even my crazy liberal and conservative facebook friends are back to posting non political stuff. 

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, zelticgar said:

Maybe but only 200 people showing up in Boston on an incredibly warm winter weekend is a pretty strong indicator that people are settling back into their routines.  Even my crazy liberal and conservative facebook friends are back to posting non political stuff. 

Is it lower than the record numbers during the women's march right now? Yes.

Is it cooled off? Hardly. Again, the focus right now has been on town hall participation, not random protests. In a little bit we're going to have the March for Science and the BLM marches, and both are likely to be large. Plus you have things like the massive turnout at Mar-A-Lago which is likely to keep happening, you have things like the CPAC Russia flag fest, etc. 

It's basically wishful thinking on your part. If people are talking less on your facebook feed chances are they're doing more on other, more private, facebook feeds; that at least is what's happening to my group of friends.

[Dr. Pepper]

The recent Boston rally for science was a bit strange and redundant considering the National March for Science is planned for April.  

Attending rallies and marches isn't easy.  It's not just about it being a warm winter weekend.  Resisting in general is really time consuming and people have to prioritize what they can do on top of the things they have to do in their daily lives.  When town halls start to lose crowds, then I'll start worrying.

[Crazydog7]

I just need some of that george soros money to go protest.  I don't know how this rumor got started but a couple of my right wing uncles accept this as the gospel truth. 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, zelticgar said:

 Even my crazy liberal and conservative facebook friends are back to posting non political stuff. 

I think my conservative facebook friends simply hide their political post from me these days.

Guess, they didn't like my lack of appreciation for their conservative opinions.

[The Anti-Targ]

55 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

One of the issues with student ID's is at college student age, more students vote Democratic than Republican.  The voter ID laws are all about restricting minority and Democrats voting whenever and wherever possible.

You coiuld argue that this is the effect, but it's pretty much impossible to argue, in a court, that this is the intent.

So long as the policy rationale can be clearly explained in non-discriminatory terms and that there are other ways by which everyone of voting age can obtain an acceptable form of ID then trying to have the law overturned is unlikely to succeed. DoJ going after voter ID laws that have no provable discriminatory intent seems like a waste of money. If the law doesn't actually disenfranchise anyone then what's the basis for it being overturned in court?

Is it possible for a student to get a qualifying form of ID without having to be subject to some test or assessment (I assume a gun licence requires some sort of assessment of fitness, at least to the extent that you don't have a disqualifying criminal conviction)? If yes, then this law is not disenfranchising on its face. If the only qualifying ID is a gun license, a driver's license or a passport, then one might be able to show that it is disenfranching, though strictly speaking a passport does not require a test or assessment like a driver's license and gun license might. So even then it would not be disenfranching, unless you consider the cost to be beyond reach of a large number of people who don't have one of the other 2 acceptable forms of ID.

From this distance I can proffer an opinion on the Texas voter ID law since I don't knowwhat forms of ID are acceptable or not, other than gun license in and student ID out.

 

 

[Fragile Bird]

CNN showed a bit of an interview Trump did today at Fox. In the interview he's asked if he thinks President Obama is behind the demonstrations against him and if so, what he thinks of Obama breaking the unwritten rule about not interfering with the next president's administration.

Trump said, yup, Obama's behind it, it's all political.

[Dr. Pepper]

26 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

CNN showed a bit of an interview Trump did today at Fox. In the interview he's asked if he thinks President Obama is behind the demonstrations against him and if so, what he thinks of Obama breaking the unwritten rule about not interfering with the next president's administration.

Trump said, yup, Obama's behind it, it's all political.

I assume he'd also agree that W is behind it as well since he's been fairly vocal about Trump.

[all swedes are racist]

lol. well fuck. i should be double billing Obama AND Soros, I'm getting killed on my take-home here

[Altherion]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

From this distance I can proffer an opinion on the Texas voter ID law since I don't knowwhat forms of ID are acceptable or not, other than gun license in and student ID out.

Here is the official list:

Quote

• Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
• Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
• Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
• Texas license to carry a handgun issued by DPS
• United States military identification card containing the person’s photograph
• United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s photograph
• United States passport

In addition, they will accept the following supporting documents if one fills out a "Reasonable Impediment Declaration":

Quote

• Valid voter registration certificate
• Certified birth certificate (must be an original)
• Copy of or original current utility bill
• Copy of or original bank statement
• Copy of or original government check
• Copy of or original paycheck
• Copy of or original government document with your name and an address (original required if it contains a photograph)

where Reasonable Impediment is defined as:

Quote

Reasonable impediments identified on the Reasonable Impediment Declaration include lack of transportation, disability or illness, lack of birth certificate or other documents needed to obtain acceptable photo ID, work schedule, family responsibilities, lost or stolen photo ID, or photo ID applied for but not received. You may also describe another reasonable impediment you have on the Reasonable Impediment Declaration form.

Given that half of the impediments are completely unverifiable and the supporting documents require absolutely no effort to obtain by anyone who lives where they claim to live, this law appears to be pretty toothless to me. It certainly wouldn't stop a non-citizen from voting if they were determined to do so.

[karaddin]

6 hours ago, Relic said:

"President Trump's Justice Department will no longer argue in court that Texas intended to discriminate against minorities when it passed a strict voter ID law that allows voters to show gun licenses but not student IDs before casting a ballot."

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/321361-trumps-doj-dropping-opposition-to-texas-voter-id-law

Who here thinks the USA will actually have a Presidential election in 2020? 

 

4 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Russia still has presidential elections. So does Hungary. Most authoritarian regimes do. 

They're just not actually fair or free elections.

Kal has my answer. I was fearing it before the election if Trump won, I thought it was very likely by the time he was inaugurated. After just over a month of him as President I'm pretty convinced the US electoral system is done. The structural damage to it by the "block everything, break government" strategy being rewarded was already lethal in the medium to long term, but you've got an amoral narcissist in charge who has decided direct personal power is the real game to win since he couldn't beat his fellow billionaires at the game scored with money.